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Verifiable evidence for creationism?

Is there any verifiable evidence for creationism?

  • Yes

    Votes: 20 19.0%
  • No

    Votes: 85 81.0%

  • Total voters
    105

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Your argument is already refuted.
No it isn't. You haven't refuted anything.
You're begging the question by using a premise that carries your conclusion.
You aren't understanding the process of the argument in the first place.

You're begging the question, and have shown that by refusing to try a synonym, or at least explain WHY that is the only word that would work.
Well, first off, without that word, my argument becomes a silly position of creation without saying creation, and creation, without creator.
A de facto math theory? Very well. Tell me my math theory, what is it, please, be detailed so I know what you're talking about.
Yes. Non/creation/ math does not exist in reality. Because you have nothing compare the mathematical unit or sequences to. That's why you don't/can't have a position unless you present a theory that explains that, or simply say everything just poofed into existence, etc

If your wording wasn't a supposition, you could defend it, or change it. You've shown, what. 5 times now that you'd rather evade the question, and make up lies (for example, that there's a math theory anywhere in my rebuttal)
I'm curious if you could toss a few more fallacies my way before refusing to support your argument gain though, lets go for 6 and call it a day.
You clearly don't understand the subject if you don't realize that you are presenting de facto math theories by stating that creationism is a false supposition/ well, the way you are saying it doesn't make as much sense as that, but close enough/. You are, because when you take creationism out of the equation, it propels the ''math'' into an /unknown/, as I already told you. That's great, but its a de facto math theory. I can't help you there, it's your problem, essentially, to figure out. You have to argue the presented position, and not try to change my argument.
 
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Awkward Fingers

Omphaloskeptic
*snip*
Well, first off, without that word, my argument becomes a silly position of creation without saying creation, and creation, without creator.*snip*
Congrats.
You've found the problem I've been talking about the whole time.
Real arguments don't have this problem. They actually have an argument to back them up, not just a preloaded phrase meant to load your solution into the question.
This is why your argument doesn't need refuting. It does it to itself.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Congrats.
You've found the problem I've been talking about the whole time.
Real arguments don't have this problem. They actually have an argument to back them up, not just a preloaded phrase meant to load your solution into the question.
This is why your argument doesn't need refuting. It does it to itself.

Facepalm.

Arguments do change when the words are changed. It's surprising that you aren't aware of that.
 

Awkward Fingers

Omphaloskeptic
Facepalm.

Arguments do change when the words are changed. It's surprising that you aren't aware of that.
Yes, but funny, its deeper than that.
Actually try hard to learn your own argument sometime. When you see why it no longer works with that specific change, let us know.
If changing between two synonyms doesn't change your meaning, great.
If it does, then you should learn WHY changing that word changes your argument, and why that specific word is required.
In your case, like I explained back many posts ago, the reason you rely on that specific word, is because it front loads your conclusion into your opening.
this is a bad argument. I'd use smaller words if I could.
I'm sorry you cannot understand this, no matter how many times it's explained to you,
but hat's not my fault.
Keep facepalming, though, it seems like it can't do any harm at this point.
I'll accept that you were given multiple opportunities to validate your begging the question, and you consistently failed to do so, though.
Your argument has been self refuted. I didn't even need to anything to it.

If you ever actually realize the problem in your argument. let me know.
 

Robert.Evans

You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
Cre·a·tion·ism
krēˈāSHəˌnizəm/
noun
  1. the belief that the universe and living organisms originate from specific acts of divine creation, as in the biblical account, rather than by natural processes such as evolution.
Is there any? I often hear creationists lean on arguments from ignorance or the present lack of scientific understanding, but I've never heard of any verifiable evidence for it.
Why can't an all powerful God create it through evolving processes?
 

Terese

Mangalam Pundarikakshah
Staff member
Premium Member
So where was this all-powerful God during the Holocaust?
Understand i believe in Brahman, who is in all of us, not the Christian God. The Holocaust was the product of humans, and those that participated it have developed seriously bad karma, and will suffer for it when they die, unless they negate it by doing good deeds. In this age of Kali-Yuga, evil is common.
Just realised our avatars look the same :D
 
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Mohammad Nur Syamsu

Well-Known Member
Cre·a·tion·ism
krēˈāSHəˌnizəm/
noun
  1. the belief that the universe and living organisms originate from specific acts of divine creation, as in the biblical account, rather than by natural processes such as evolution.
Is there any? I often hear creationists lean on arguments from ignorance or the present lack of scientific understanding, but I've never heard of any verifiable evidence for it.

All theories in science are stated in their general form. Which means to say that both creation of the earth 6.000 years ago would be creation theory, as well as creation of the earth 100.000 years ago would be creation theory. Likewise it is still creation theory irrespective if God or Satan created the earth.

The mechanism of creation is choosing. The agency of the decision is regarded as a subjective issue in creationism, so falls outside of science. The evidence for freedom being real and relevant is abundant. Based upon this fact there are several creation theories about how organisms for instance, are chosen to be the way they are. Organisms can be formed by many independent decisions coincedentally coming together forming a whole organism, or they can be formed by one or a few decisions choosing the whole organism at once, or any other variation of how things are chosen.

Many independent decisions coincedentally forming a whole organism would result in much more crappy organism than we see today, even considering that natural selection can sort out some of the crap, the amount of crap configurations available is simply too large.

The evidence of the efficient functionally integrated organisms that we see points to intelligent design, meaning that organisms are chosen as a whole in one decision, with an apparent design principle of survival or reproduction. That is to say all parts of the organism work in regards to the event of survival or reproduction.

The fact that the mathematical ordering of the DNA world is the same as that of the physical universe, point to there being a 3D DNA world like a computersimulation, or human imagination. The physical organisms develops guided by the DNA organism.

In the DNA world the fully functional adult DNA organism is chosen.

Maybe by using natural selection to look into the future. As natural selection is explained in terms of force, and the result of force principles can be known in advance (for example we can know the orbit of the earth around the sun in advance, because it is largely forced), natural selection can be used to look into the future. Death for example does not consist of anything. So when looking into the future, then configurations for organisms which die, or cannot even be assembled, simply do not show up in the future as possibilities. That is one way of cutting the number of enumerated possible configurations down, which number is humongous, to a number of configurations which are relatively small, and has a high concentration of workable designs.

I am sure we can all agree that we are very bored with evolution science, and we want scientists to go looking for the DNA world which we are sure exists. It just means transforming the radio signal from DNA, which signal has already been found, to a video signal of a 3D computer graphics simulation. Then we can see inside the DNA world on a computer screen. Or so to say, most of the work has already been done, how hard can it be, why are biologists boring everybody with this stupid evolution theory?
 

leibowde84

Veteran Member
All theories in science are stated in their general form. Which means to say that both creation of the earth 6.000 years ago would be creation theory, as well as creation of the earth 100.000 years ago would be creation theory. Likewise it is still creation theory irrespective if God or Satan created the earth.

The mechanism of creation is choosing. The agency of the decision is regarded as a subjective issue in creationism, so falls outside of science. The evidence for freedom being real and relevant is abundant. Based upon this fact there are several creation theories about how organisms for instance, are chosen to be the way they are. Organisms can be formed by many independent decisions coincedentally coming together forming a whole organism, or they can be formed by one or a few decisions choosing the whole organism at once, or any other variation of how things are chosen.

Many independent decisions coincedentally forming a whole organism would result in much more crappy organism than we see today, even considering that natural selection can sort out some of the crap, the amount of crap configurations available is simply too large.

The evidence of the efficient functionally integrated organisms that we see points to intelligent design, meaning that organisms are chosen as a whole in one decision, with an apparent design principle of survival or reproduction. That is to say all parts of the organism work in regards to the event of survival or reproduction.

The fact that the mathematical ordering of the DNA world is the same as that of the physical universe, point to there being a 3D DNA world like a computersimulation, or human imagination. The physical organisms develops guided by the DNA organism.

In the DNA world the fully functional adult DNA organism is chosen.

Maybe by using natural selection to look into the future. As natural selection is explained in terms of force, and the result of force principles can be known in advance (for example we can know the orbit of the earth around the sun in advance, because it is largely forced), natural selection can be used to look into the future. Death for example does not consist of anything. So when looking into the future, then configurations for organisms which die, or cannot even be assembled, simply do not show up in the future as possibilities. That is one way of cutting the number of enumerated possible configurations down, which number is humongous, to a number of configurations which are relatively small, and has a high concentration of workable designs.

I am sure we can all agree that we are very bored with evolution science, and we want scientists to go looking for the DNA world which we are sure exists. It just means transforming the radio signal from DNA, which signal has already been found, to a video signal of a 3D computer graphics simulation. Then we can see inside the DNA world on a computer screen. Or so to say, most of the work has already been done, how hard can it be, why are biologists boring everybody with this stupid evolution theory?
Who is doing the "choosing" in this context? You say that organisms are "chosen" to be a certain way, so some entity must do the "choosing".
 

Mohammad Nur Syamsu

Well-Known Member
Who is doing the "choosing" in this context? You say that organisms are "chosen" to be a certain way, so some entity must do the "choosing".

Agency is a subjectivity issue, and there is no other subjective issue except agency of a decision. So that you make agency of decisions into an objective issue, means that you reject any and all subjectivity. Rejecting the validity of subjectivity, or so to say to make what is good and evil into a scientific fact, is pseudoscience.
 

leibowde84

Veteran Member
Agency is a subjectivity issue, and there is no other subjective issue except agency of a decision. So that you make agency of decisions into an objective issue, means that you reject any and all subjectivity. Rejecting the validity of subjectivity, or so to say to make what is good and evil into a scientific fact, is pseudoscience.
This has absolutely nothing to do with my question. I was asking who's agency is making the decision. "Agency" is "a person or thing through which power is exerted or an end is achieved". So, again, my question is who's "agency" is doing the "choosing". Agency is basically the subjective nature through which we see reality. It doesn't exist without an entity owning it.
 

Mohammad Nur Syamsu

Well-Known Member
This has absolutely nothing to do with my question. I was asking who's agency is making the decision. "Agency" is "a person or thing through which power is exerted or an end is achieved". So, again, my question is who's "agency" is doing the "choosing". Agency is basically the subjective nature through which we see reality. It doesn't exist without an entity owning it.

That was the correct answer to your question. When discussing creationism you should use the creationist definition of terms, and in creationism agency is a matter of opinion. For example, God and the soul are agency, and the existence of them is regarded as a matter of faith.

Obviously you don't understand how choosing works and you reject subjectivity.
 

McBell

Unbound
That was the correct answer to your question. When discussing creationism you should use the creationist definition of terms, and in creationism agency is a matter of opinion. For example, God and the soul are agency, and the existence of them is regarded as a matter of faith.

Obviously you don't understand how choosing works and you reject subjectivity.
seriously?
You gonna pollute this thread with that garbage?
 

Mohammad Nur Syamsu

Well-Known Member
seriously?
You gonna pollute this thread with that garbage?

Creationism is the only philosophy which validates both opinion and fact, each in their own right, their own domain. The agency of a decision is a matter of opinion, and the decision is a matter of fact. That is how creationism provides the best philosophical framework, while materialists just put opinion together with fact resulting in social darwinism and the likes, or postmodernism where subjectivity inheres in facts.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
As I said, I read it and I don't see your point. Please be respectful and provide an explanation of how it is relevant. Trolling comments are dumb.
now, now, now....
I can't make you see anything
if you are set about tossing creationism aside......I can't make you see the relevance

who's a troll?
someone not wanting to participate while denouncing the very item at hand.....

if you want to continue a discussion about creationism.....come prepared...to change your mind.

otherwise...you are the troll
 
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