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Views of the Puranas

How do you view the Puranas?

  • Literal

    Votes: 7 41.2%
  • Allegorical

    Votes: 6 35.3%
  • Mythological

    Votes: 3 17.6%
  • Other- please explain!

    Votes: 1 5.9%

  • Total voters
    17

KrsnaDasa

Done posting here
Hare Krsna

So, while looking at another thread it made me wonder how some of the Hindus here view the Puranas and Itihasas. Such as, do you view it literally, as allegory, mythical, etc. Or a little bit of each? And why?

Me personally, I tend to take it slightly more literally. Basically I think we should do that for scripture because they are from the Lord and since our senses and minds are imperfect it's difficult to use them to find the truth.
 

Poeticus

| abhyAvartin |
Namaste,

There are some things someone can take from Puranas literally and there are some things that one can't. It depends on the Bhakta, I guess.

M.V.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
It's allegory for me, but I have no problem with other people having other views.

I just have a hard time imagining things like a being having ten heads sticking out the side of his head, and another one having his head chopped off and then replaced by a an elephant's head. Not that that might all be possible on some other dimension, or planet, with a different set of scientific principles than we have today. I personally think telling our children stories like this actually does them a disservice and sends them off to look for answers elsewhere that make more sense. They do take science in school these days.
 

Viraja

Jaya Jagannatha!
To me everything happened as it is. For example, Sage Valmiki never had the chance to explore all of India so minutely, from geographic details (such as confluence of the Ganges near various spots to mountains), city names as it were in History to various ruler names, etc. But still in Ithihasa Ramayana, one sees all these details minutely recorded by the Rishi.

Besides, to me it does not make sense that we should question certain parts of the puranas. Although I find it very hard to imagine 10 headed Ravana, (where will his ears be, will he be able to move his central head freely as we do?), I find that in just this occassion (and possibly few other characters like Ravana), that it might be the authoring sage's wisdom that made him write/represent data in such an understandable format. For example, it is said, Sita is our 'mind' (manas) and Ravana are the 10 'karmendriyas' (portals for action in our body) and that these avenues or portals rob the mind of thinking about God (Ram) all the time... I think Sage Valmiki beautifully rendered these karmendriyas as the 10-headed Ravana.

Other than that, I have no doubt ithihasas/puranas happened. Afterall, it is such a wonder how creation itself manifested in all these numerous forms, which also seems to have a role for every minute detail to play in the role of life, it confirms to be the presence of things not understood by the scientific eye. Therefore, ithihasas, puranas happened.
 

KrsnaDasa

Done posting here
मैत्रावरुणिः;3470133 said:
Namaste,

There are some things someone can take from Puranas literally and there are some things that one can't. It depends on the Bhakta, I guess.

M.V.

Yeah, that makes sense. For a long time I took everything in the Bhagavatam to be literal, but what it said about creation I took as symbolism to make more room for Krsnas pastimes. But as time goes on and I see how little we know about our place in this universe and how little we know in general, I think it's possible for what the Bhagavatam says to be the full Truth.

It's allegory for me, but I have no problem with other people having other views.

I just have a hard time imagining things like a being having ten heads sticking out the side of his head, and another one having his head chopped off and then replaced by a an elephant's head. Not that that might all be possible on some other dimension, or planet, with a different set of scientific principles than we have today. I personally think telling our children stories like this actually does them a disservice and sends them off to look for answers elsewhere that make more sense. They do take science in school these days.

Why do you think that is? At least in scripture it gives conclusions, a way for our minds to rest about certain subjects at the end of the day. While science simply gives us theories and leaves us hanging. Not to mention, some of the stuff science is getting at nowadays seems almost as fantastic as some creation storys in various scriptures. I read an article where some scientist was trying to prove his theory, through scientific methods, that there was no objective universe, which to me would cancel out science completely, there needs to be an objective view if science wants to find answers.
 

KrsnaDasa

Done posting here
Also, I feel like many people try to find the truth inductively, meaning their own imperfect minds can skew what they find, or their perceptions of it could be slightly off. I think it's best to find the truth deductively, as if done through a Parampara. Meaning, instead of us finding the truth and possibly skewing it with our imperfections, we instead have the truth revealed to us by the truth.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Yeah, that makes sense. For a long time I took everything in the Bhagavatam to be literal, but what it said about creation I took as symbolism to make more room for Krsnas pastimes. But as time goes on and I see how little we know about our place in this universe and how little we know in general, I think it's possible for what the Bhagavatam says to be the full Truth.



Why do you think that is? At least in scripture it gives conclusions, a way for our minds to rest about certain subjects at the end of the day. While science simply gives us theories and leaves us hanging. Not to mention, some of the stuff science is getting at nowadays seems almost as fantastic as some creation storys in various scriptures. I read an article where some scientist was trying to prove his theory, through scientific methods, that there was no objective universe, which to me would cancel out science completely, there needs to be an objective view if science wants to find answers.

I only meant science as it directly relates to some Puranas. My scriptures are Sruti, Vedas and Agamas, and the rest take a very secondary role, if any role at all. I've never read the Gita for example.

But I understand also that Hinduism is vast, and there are many different schools. I do understand science is not complete, and doesn't explain a lot of things.
 

KrsnaDasa

Done posting here
I only meant science as it directly relates to some Puranas. My scriptures are Sruti, Vedas and Agamas, and the rest take a very secondary role, if any role at all. I've never read the Gita for example.

But I understand also that Hinduism is vast, and there are many different schools. I do understand science is not complete, and doesn't explain a lot of things.

Have you ever read the Śiva Gita? I found it to be quite interesting. It was written after the Bhagavad Gita and you can kinda tell.... Haha
 

Kalidas

Well-Known Member
I don't know. In a practical regular everyday sense I do not, in a spiritual anything is possible sense I don't know. I used to concern myself with these types of things A LOT. I was quite the newb theologian trying to figure out the truth of what God is or is not. I am trying hard not to do that much these days. I guess when it comes down to it I am still a bit of a pantheist which would make everything God and if man did just make up those stories it would still technically be God making them, which would make them real in one sense... somewhere out there in the divine consciousness that pervades the universe.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
I don't know. In a practical regular everyday sense I do not, in a spiritual anything is possible sense I don't know. I used to concern myself with these types of things A LOT. I was quite the newb theologian trying to figure out the truth of what God is or is not. I am trying hard not to do that much these days. I guess when it comes down to it I am still a bit of a pantheist which would make everything God and if man did just make up those stories it would still technically be God making them, which would make them real in one sense... somewhere out there in the divine consciousness that pervades the universe.


I'm that way too in that ultimately, I don't think it matters. Effects of karma will follow us around like a bloodhound anyway.
 

KrsnaDasa

Done posting here
May I ask why some refuse to take scripture literally? Is it because you don't want to appear fundamentalist? Or afraid of science proving you wrong, or would hate to appear irrational or illogical to some folks, or super traditional?
 

Poeticus

| abhyAvartin |
May I ask why some refuse to take scripture literally? Is it because you don't want to appear fundamentalist? Or afraid of science proving you wrong, or would hate to appear irrational or illogical to some folks, or super traditional?

I take the Shri Rig Veda literally. Science can prove me wrong, but what I do dharmically has nothing to do with what I choose to believe in scientifically.

While I venture through science, I leave faith-based mindset at the door. While I swim through the shastra-s, I leave science at the door. There is no rule that says I can't.
 
If we take the PurANas as being allegorical tales, then it may be asked here: who wrote them?

Before start answering this question, we will do well to notice one important fact that the Vedic Deities are no more considered as Gods in the PurANas. What were the Vedic Deities once became mere names, of many JivAs (enlightened/ exalted/ ignorant souls), and thus dissolved into insignificance. SavitR, BrahmaNaspati, Aditi, Sudhanvan, Indra--- all these transformed into just words, or at best were conserved through attaching some harmless connotation (Aditi thus denoting the name of the wife of certain Rsi), or worse still, by making a formal mockery of the words (Indra, "the corrupt demigod", being a case-in-point, or even Daksha).

But, now, to the other end of the spectrum.
Many "new" Deities came to be, as if from nowhere: GaNesha, KāLI, HanumAn,
DurgA, LakshmI, PArvati, Murugan, AyappA, BrahmA, NarayaNa, Shiva, and many others.

That their coming into existence is pre or post Vedic is arguable, but what can be said with some certainty is that the PurANas were not originally the creations of priests or elites, as they were more engaged with the "high brow" theories of "Brahman", "Moksha", "NirvANa", "bhedAbheda", "chintyAchintya", and so on. On one hand these elites were unable to come to terms with the Veda, on the other they felt threatened by the seeming chaos of Hinduism that was practiced on ground- a riot of innumerable PurANic Gods and Goddesses.

Indeed, dismissing PurANas will be dismissing RamayaNa (dont make ShivaFan Ji angry:p) and MahabhArata, too, since these form a part of PurANas.

Veda was a secular religion, it will come back to the centre stage in a future, no doubt about that also. In the meantime, I dare say, PurANas became the Veda de facto. And they were created by "common folks". They were the Rsis of the Kaliyuga, the illiterate ones who went around places singing the songs of various Deities.

Hinduism was living. PurANas became its creative expression and the driver. And the living one, this being, was no different than that of the Vedic times. Yes, you can say it was "low brow", but at the same time infinitely superior to crude and puerile attempts in Vedanta, Samkhya, etc.

The PurANas, that "educated" among us today love to hate, is a Sanskritised, textualised version of a true and original Hindu creativity. Sure, there will be a movement towards the Veda, but no one, who has not understood the spirit of the PurANas properly, nor felt their dynamism in their heartbeats, can really hope to achieve their goal.

PurANas to me, is therefore, a bewildering mix of fact, fiction, goodness, joy and life. Who is Shiva, then? Was BhAgiratha for real? The travels of Narada? RAjA HariSchandra? King BAli and Avatara VAmana?

There can be thousands of such questions. The "stories" seem to have stayed there, in the "vertical time" That is their framework. Ganesha laughing about some trivia- Skanda still playing around there- Shiva and PArvati still talking over some pet issues.

A mysterious world, this.
 
In one of the threads I have already given my view. So once more :). I take most of the parts of Puranas literally. Many of the Puranas were already exist, later Maharshi Vyasa added some features and compiled into 18 Puranas. Five charcterstics of Puranas are :

Sarga (Creation), Pratisarga (Dissolution and Recreation), Vansha (Divine Genealogies), Manvantara (Ages of Manus), and Vanshanucharita (Genealogies of kings).

I like the deeper knowledge that Puranas provide of all these charcterstics, beside these there are many great stories, effective lessons, divine knowledge etc. So I take most of the parts of Puranas literally.


Truly there is in this world nothing so purifying as knowledge.- (Bhagvad Gita [4.38])
 
Last edited:

ratikala

Istha gosthi
namaskaram krsna dasa ji:namaste

Hare Krsna

So, while looking at another thread it made me wonder how some of the Hindus here view the Puranas and Itihasas. Such as, do you view it literally, as allegory, mythical, etc. Or a little bit of each? And why?
Me personally, I tend to take it slightly more literally. Basically I think we should do that for scripture because they are from the Lord and since our senses and minds are imperfect it's difficult to use them to find the truth.
I usualy refrain from discussing these issues as many aspects of faith are very personal , and subject to change , at first we might look on these tales as allagorical but as we contemplate these tales more deeply they take on different character , we should remember that they are often narrating ancient historical accounts steming from the creation of this universe and giving prophecy up to this universe's disolution .

the problem I feel most people have with the puranas is that we are told that they were compiled by vyasa , we tend then to think that he composed them rather than systematicaly presenting allready existant historical accounts , prophecies and genealogies which must have existed as an oral tradition before vyasa's compelation .
schollars have also tried to put forward dates for this compilation , this only serves to confuse the issue as we then take these stories of creation out of the original oral context .

originaly these accounts were diseminated by acharyas sages or brahmins who also dilivered puranas suitable for the assembled audience of the faithfull , or diseminated within a guru deciple relationship , the puranas also contain sciences such as vastu shastra , astronomy and astrology , law , medicine and formulas for worship .
yet we tend to forget this wealth of knowledge and focus upon what we find less credible such as divinities with multiple heads . there is then a tendancy to diccount what we do not find beleivable without giving it fair thought .

we live in an age that wishes to find proof to substantiate all things , yet we forget that science is still in its infancy (or we choose to belive that we are superior in interlect to ancient man) .... this I doubt , to me ancient man was far superior , it is just that his values were differnt to ours , it is our ignorance that blinds us to so much that is infront of our eyes , so when someone says raven had ten heads we think that we canot as inteligent people take this literaly ,... yet we will say a cat has nine lives meaning simply that a cat has an uncany ability to survive , these descriptions are indicative of the character they describe in much the same way that the buddhist tantric deitys are multi headed multi armed and terifying and who trample upon asuras ,(personifications of ignorance) .


''do you view it literally, as allegory, mythical, etc. Or a little bit of each?

allagorical ?... yes, ... but deeply rooted in truth of cosmic antiquity , beyond common conception ,
mythical ? .....No
literaly ? ... yes , ... but in an esoteric sence .
 
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