Viraj

Tyaga · Apr 5, 2014

Pranams to all,

I was wondering,what exactly is this 'Viraj' concept mentioned in the Purusha Sukta?

"From him(Purusha), Viraj was born; again Puruṣa from Viraj was born."

Is this Viraj a sort of female aspect of the Purusha(like Purusha-Prakriti combo)?Is it a precursor to the Prakriti concept?

I would like to get some details on this please

Regards,
A.

Aupmanyav · Apr 5, 2014

Spokensanskrit.de: free from dust, shining, clean, pure.
Monier-Williams: 2 viraja (3. %{vi+raja} for %{rajas}) mf(%{A})n. free from dust , clean , pure (also fig. `" free from passion "') S3Br. MBh. &c. ; free from the menstrual excretion L. ; m. N. of a Marut-vat Hariv. ; of a son of Tvasht2r2i BhP. ; of a son of Pu1rn2iman ib. ; of a pupil of Ja1tu1karn2ya ib. ; of the world of Buddha Padma-prabha SaddhP. ; (pl.) of a class of gods under Manu Sa1varn2i BhP. ; (%{A}) f. Panicum Dactylon (= %{dUrA}) MBh. (= %{kapitthAnI} L.) ; of the wife of Nahusha (spiritual daughter of a class of Pitr2is called Su-svadhas or Sva.svadhas) Hariv. ; of a mistress of Kr2ishn2a (who was changed into a river) Pan5car. ; of a Ra1kshasi1 Cat. ; n. N. of a place of pilgrimage MBh. ; %{-prabha} m. N. of a Buddha Buddh. ; %{-loka} m. N. of a partic. world , VB. ; %{-jA7kSa} m. N. of a mountain (to the north of Meru) Ma1rkP. ; %{-jAkSetra} n. N. of a sacred district Cat. ; %{-je7zvarI} f. N. of Ra1dha1 Pan5car.
3 virAja mfn. shining , brilliant Pan5car. ; m. a partic. form of a temple Hcat. ; a part. Eka7ha Vait. ; a species of plant L. ; N. of a Praja1-pati Hariv. ; of a son of A-vik**** MBh.
Apte: meanings of "viraja" [1] a.{a-stem} 1.free from dust or passion #42473 meanings of "viraja" [2] m.{a-stem} 1.an epithet of <&viSNu> #42474

Tyaga · Apr 5, 2014

Aupmanyav said:
Spokensanskrit.de: free from dust, shining, clean, pure.
Monier-Williams: 2 viraja (3. %{vi+raja} for %{rajas}) mf(%{A})n. free from dust , clean , pure (also fig. `" free from passion "') S3Br. MBh. &c. ; free from the menstrual excretion L. ; m. N. of a Marut-vat Hariv. ; of a son of Tvasht2r2i BhP. ; of a son of Pu1rn2iman ib. ; of a pupil of Ja1tu1karn2ya ib. ; of the world of Buddha Padma-prabha SaddhP. ; (pl.) of a class of gods under Manu Sa1varn2i BhP. ; (%{A}) f. Panicum Dactylon (= %{dUrA}) MBh. (= %{kapitthAnI} L.) ; of the wife of Nahusha (spiritual daughter of a class of Pitr2is called Su-svadhas or Sva.svadhas) Hariv. ; of a mistress of Kr2ishn2a (who was changed into a river) Pan5car. ; of a Ra1kshasi1 Cat. ; n. N. of a place of pilgrimage MBh. ; %{-prabha} m. N. of a Buddha Buddh. ; %{-loka} m. N. of a partic. world , VB. ; %{-jA7kSa} m. N. of a mountain (to the north of Meru) Ma1rkP. ; %{-jAkSetra} n. N. of a sacred district Cat. ; %{-je7zvarI} f. N. of Ra1dha1 Pan5car.
3 virAja mfn. shining , brilliant Pan5car. ; m. a partic. form of a temple Hcat. ; a part. Eka7ha Vait. ; a species of plant L. ; N. of a Praja1-pati Hariv. ; of a son of A-vik**** MBh.
Apte: meanings of "viraja" [1] a.{a-stem} 1.free from dust or passion #42473 meanings of "viraja" [2] m.{a-stem} 1.an epithet of <&viSNu> #42474

Pranam,

I very well know about the etymology of the term.But i was wondering ,is there any relation between Viraj and Prakriti?

Aupmanyav · Apr 6, 2014

तस्माद विराळ अजायत विराजो अधि पूरुषः |
tasmād virāḷ ajāyata virājo adhi pūruṣaḥ |

Wikipedia: From Purusha, Virata. From Virata, Viraja, the pure and shining.
Ralph Griffith: From him Virāj was born; again Puruṣa from Virāj was born.
Purusha Suktam - in sanskrit with meaning - from Rig Veda 10.90
5.1: From Him (i.e. the Purusha) was born the Virat; (the Virat came into being) from the presence of the Shining Purusha (Who remained as the background or substratum of Virat);
pué;sÚ m ué;sÚ m pué;sÚ m ué;sÚ m [Purusha Suktam] Introduction The word ‘Purusha’ means God Almighty. This Suktam
From Him (the Virat Purusha) emerged the Cosmos then came Brahman from the Virat Purush
Simple meaning for purusha suktam
Variety came forth from Him and thus from within he became vi-rAt pu-ru-SHa.
Purusha Sooktam - Translation
From That was born Virat (the totality of beings). From Virat was the Purusha born.

Tyaga · Apr 6, 2014

Pranam,

Aupmanyav said:
pué;sÚ m ué;sÚ m pué;sÚ m ué;sÚ m [Purusha Suktam] Introduction The word Purusha means God Almighty. This Suktam
From Him (the Virat Purusha) emerged the Cosmos then came Brahman from the Virat Purush

Brahman came from Purusha?

According to the Brahmanas,Purusha/Prajapati is manifestation of unmanifested Brahman.

Aupmanyav · Apr 6, 2014

Well, views. You know 'vipra bahudha vadanti', 'tunde-tunde matirbhinna'.

Tyaga · Apr 6, 2014

Aupmanyav said:
Well, views. You know 'vipra bahudha vadanti', 'tunde-tunde matirbhinna'.

Pranam,

If you look it in that sense,then yes.

But according to the mainstream Vedic myth,Purusha/Prajapati/Visvakarman was born from Hiranyagarbha(which is again a manifestation of the unmanifested).

Aupmanyav · Apr 7, 2014

Science is working on these theories. The main problem is the beginning of existence, pointed in Nasadiya Sukta. Is existence a form of non-existence. Did the universe rise out of 'absolute nothing'? Are their universes other than ours? Will it again return to 'absolute nothing'. It would take time to get the answer which is not available today.

"सतो बन्धुमसति निरविन्दन हृिदि परतीष्याकवयो मनीषा ll"
Sato bandhumasati niravindan hridi paratīshyakavayo manīshā
(Sages who searched with their heart's thought discovered the existent's kinship in the non-existent.)

Poeticus · Apr 7, 2014

Tyāga;3715772 said:
Pranams to all,

I was wondering,what exactly is this 'Viraj' concept mentioned in the Purusha Sukta?

"From him(Purusha), Viraj was born; again Puruṣa from Viraj was born."

Is this Viraj a sort of female aspect of the Purusha(like Purusha-Prakriti combo)?Is it a precursor to the Prakriti concept?

I would like to get some details on this please

Regards,
A.

Tyaga, I just realized why this question was kind of difficult for me to
approach. It's because it was Vedantic in orientation. Ritualistically,
Viraj for me meant nothing more than the product of accumulation -
the prosperity that is gained from the conduction of the yajna. This is
because for various ritualistic Shrautins, the whole sukta is dedicated
to the essence of the cosmic yajna. Therefore, I really had no idea
what you were asking when you talked about a precursor to a concept
pertaining to Prakriti. Don't various Vedantists refer to Viraj as Brahma's
egg? For Vedantists, doesn't it go like: nirguna ---> Viraj ---> saguna ?
Was that why the Vaisheshika-s weren't supportive of this approach?

Tyaga · Apr 7, 2014

Poeticus said:
Don't various Vedantists refer to Viraj as Brahma's
egg? For Vedantists, doesn't it go like: nirguna ---> Viraj ---> saguna ?

Pranam,

I'm not an expert Vedantist,but i can say that the Brahma's egg would be the Hiranyagarbha(or Brahmanda).Viraj,i believe, is a different concept,precursor to Prakriti.Atharva Veda identifies Viraj as both male and female(although often associated with a Cow,just like Aditi).

Maybe a Vedantist on RF can explain further on this

atanu · Apr 7, 2014

Tyāga;3718544 said:
Pranam,

I'm not an expert Vedantist,but i can say that the Brahma's egg would be the Hiranyagarbha(or Brahmanda).Viraj,i believe, is a different concept,precursor to Prakriti.Atharva Veda identifies Viraj as both male and female(although often associated with a Cow,just like Aditi).

Maybe a Vedantist on RF can explain further on this

Tyaga

Thank you for this thread.

Paingala Upanishad gives the steps of so-called evolution of the 'This' (the ayam atma) to the World soul stage , which is Viraja, or Virat, or Vishnu.

Paingala Upanishad
http://www.celextel.org/upanishads/shukla_yajur_veda/paingala.html

I-1. Then indeed Paingala approached Yajnavalkya as a disciple, and, having served him for twelve years, said: Instruct me in regard to the supreme mystery of Aloneness.

I-2. The eminent Yajnavalkya replied: Dear one, in the beginning this indeed existed. It was the eternally free, immutable, everlastingly one, secondless Brahman, full of Truth, Knowledge and Bliss.

I-3. In it existed the primordial and indefinable Prakriti, consisting of Gunas in a state of equipoise, red, white and dark, resembling (the existence of) water, silver, a man and outlines (respectively) in the mirage oyster-shell, a stump and a mirror; what was reflected in it was the Witness Consciousness.

I-4. Having been modified, with the preponderance of Sattva, and named Avyakta (the Unmanifest), it (Prakriti) became the power of concealment. What was reflected in it became God Consciousness. He has Maya under His control, is omniscient, is the initial cause of creation, sustenance and dissolution (of the world) and has the form of the sprouting world. He manifests the entire world dissolved in Him. Due to the power of the Karmas of living beings is the (world) spread out like this cloth and due to their exhaustion again is (the world) concealed. In Him alone does the entire world exist as a folded cloth.

I-5.From the power of concealment controlled by God arose the Power of Projection called Mahat. What is reflected in it is the consciousness of Hiranyagarbha. He has the conceit of ownership as regards Mahat and has a body partly manifest and partly unmanifest.

I-6. From the projective power controlled by Hiranyagarbha arose the gross power called the ego, with the preponderance of Tamas. What was reflected in it was the consciousness of Virat. That Virat who has conceit in the Ego, a manifest body, and is the Chief Person, Vishnu is the protector of all gross things. From that Self (Virat) arose ether; from the ether, air; from air, fire; from fire, water; from water, earth. These five root-elements are composed of the three Gunas.

The above, more or less depicts the evolution of the the waking state Purusha - the World soul, Vaisvnara (-- Turiya>Prajnana>Shuhupti>Vaisvanara --) as explained in Mandukya and other Upanishads.

In light of the aforesaid, I would prefer the following understanding:

Tasmaad-Viraadda-Jaayata Viraajo Adhi Puurussah |
Sa Jaato Atya[i-A]ricyata Pashcaad-Bhuumim-Atho Purah ||5||

ta-smAt (from That) +vi -rAt (variety) + a-jA-ya-ta (come forth) |
vi -rA-jaH (Variations) a-dhi (has as foundation) pU-ru-SHaH|
saH (He) jA-taH(having born) a-ti (very) + a-ri-cya-ta (grew large)
pa -shcAt (in front) + bhU-mi H(of the Earth) + a-thaH(and then) + pu-raH (behind) ||5||

from That the variety comes forth |
The variety has as foundation the pU-ru-SHaH|
He having born grew very large
In front is the Earth and then behind ||5||

Or:

From That was born Virat (the totality of beings). From Virat was the (Agni) Purusha born. As soon as He was born, He spread over the earth both in front and behind.

Or:

From that Purusha was born,
The scintillating, ever shining universe,
And from that was born the Purusha called BrahmA,
And he spread himself everywhere,
And created the earth and then,
The bodies of all beings.

Also, this, in my opinion, is same as saying: Brahman satyam, Jagat Mithya, Brahman Jagat.

(This is my opinion only).

Tyaga · Apr 8, 2014

atanu said:
Tyaga

Thank you for this thread.

Paingala Upanishad gives the steps of so-called evolution of the 'This' (the ayam atma) to the World soul stage , which is Viraja, or Virat, or Vishnu.

The above, more or less depicts the evolution of the the waking state Purusha - the World soul, Vaisvnara (-- Turiya>Prajnana>Shuhupti>Vaisvanara --) as explained in Mandukya and other Upanishads.

In light of the aforesaid, I would prefer the following understanding:

Tasmaad-Viraadda-Jaayata Viraajo Adhi Puurussah |
Sa Jaato Atya[i-A]ricyata Pashcaad-Bhuumim-Atho Purah ||5||

ta-smAt (from That) +vi -rAt (variety) + a-jA-ya-ta (come forth) |
vi -rA-jaH (Variations) a-dhi (has as foundation) pU-ru-SHaH|
saH (He) jA-taH(having born) a-ti (very) + a-ri-cya-ta (grew large)
pa -shcAt (in front) + bhU-mi H(of the Earth) + a-thaH(and then) + pu-raH (behind) ||5||

from That the variety comes forth |
The variety has as foundation the pU-ru-SHaH|
He having born grew very large
In front is the Earth and then behind ||5||

Or:

From That was born Virat (the totality of beings). From Virat was the (Agni) Purusha born. As soon as He was born, He spread over the earth both in front and behind.

Or:

From that Purusha was born,
The scintillating, ever shining universe,
And from that was born the Purusha called BrahmA,
And he spread himself everywhere,
And created the earth and then,
The bodies of all beings.

Also, this, in my opinion, is same as saying: Brahman satyam, Jagat Mithya, Brahman Jagat.

(This is my opinion only).

Dearr Atanu,

Thank you for the wonderful information.Although,i'm unsure about Paingala Upanishad,i'm hearing about this Upanishad for the first time.I think it is not considered as a Mukhya Upanishad.I am currently going through the theology present in early Upanishads(Chandogya,Brhadar-aranyaka,Taittiriya,Aitareya etc) and Brahmanas(Satapatha,Aitareya,Panchavimsha etc).These scriptures contain earliest commentaries on Vedic myths.While in later periods,new concepts creeped into the Vedic theology due to gradual evolution of Vedic theology and Nastika influences.

Thank you for the valuable explanation anyway

Poeticus · Apr 8, 2014

Tyāga;3718730 said:
I am currently going through the theology present in early Upanishads(Chandogya,Brhadar-aranyaka,Taittiriya,Aitareya etc) and Brahmanas(Satapatha,Aitareya,Panchavimsha etc).These scriptures contain earliest commentaries on Vedic myths.While in later periods,new concepts creeped into the Vedic theology due to gradual evolution of Vedic theology and Nastika influences.

Unbeknownst to many, brahmana-s
such as the Aitareya detail certain
Vedic revelations that are extremely
ancient - even "pre-Vedic", perhaps.
For example, the nivid-s.

atanu · Apr 8, 2014

Tyāga;3718730 said:
Dearr Atanu,

Thank you for the wonderful information.Although,i'm unsure about Paingala Upanishad,i'm hearing about this Upanishad for the first time.I think it is not considered as a Mukhya Upanishad.I am currently going through the theology present in early Upanishads(Chandogya,Brhadar-aranyaka,Taittiriya,Aitareya etc) and Brahmanas(Satapatha,Aitareya,Panchavimsha etc).These scriptures contain earliest commentaries on Vedic myths.While in later periods,new concepts creeped into the Vedic theology due to gradual evolution of Vedic theology and Nastika influences.

Thank you for the valuable explanation anyway

True Paingala, which is from Shukla Yajur Veda, is not a major upanishad, yet it reflects what is there in Vedas and in other upanishads. These minor Upanishads clarify on some aspect that are very difficult to understand from mukhya upanishads such as Brihadaraynaka or Chandogya.

The main point is to sew a thread through all terms, such as That, Purusha, Mahat, Prakriti, Vaisnavara etc etc. and show the source or the root.

Aupmanyav · Apr 8, 2014

Poeticus said:
Unbeknownst to many, brahmana-s such as the Aitareya detail certain Vedic revelations that are extremely ancient - even "pre-Vedic", perhaps. For example, the nivids.

Kindly tell me more about 'nivids'. Where can I read translations of 'nivids'?

"When he recites the Nishkevalya hymn addressed to Indra (Rv. X, 50), pra vo mahe, he inserts a Nivid 2 (between the fourth and fifth verses). Thus he clearly places strength in himself (in the sastra, in the bird, in himself).

194:2 Sentences like 'indro devah somam pibatu' (Indra God drinks Soma)."
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/sbe01/sbe01200.htm#fn_481

पर वो महे मन्दमानायान्धसो.अर्चा विश्वानरायविश्वाभुवे |
इन्द्रस्य यस्य सुमखं सहो महि शरवोन्र्म्णं च रोदसी सपर्यतः ||
pra vo mahe mandamānāyāndhaso.arcā viśvānarāyaviśvābhuve |
indrasya yasya sumakhaṃ saho mahi śravonṛmṇaṃ ca rodasī saparyataḥ ||

I LAUD your Mighty One who joyeth in the juice, him who is shared by all men, who created all;
Indra, whose conquering strength is powerful in war, whose fame and manly vigour Heaven and Earth revere.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rigveda/rv10050.htm

Tyaga · Apr 8, 2014

atanu said:
The main point is to sew a thread through all terms, such as That, Purusha, Mahat, Prakriti, Vaisnavara etc etc. and show the source or the root.

Pranam Atanu,

IMO the mention of Prakriti is from Samkhya influence,i don't know whether if any of the Mukhya Upanishads contains mention of Prakriti.

Tyaga · Apr 8, 2014

Poeticus said:
Unbeknownst to many, brahmana-s
such as the Aitareya detail certain
Vedic revelations that are extremely
ancient - even "pre-Vedic", perhaps.
For example, the nivid-s.

Namaste,

Yes,perhaps the stories like that of Harischandra A-Ikshvaka and Sunahsepa can be considered as pre-Vedic(Sunahsepa is considered as a composer in Rg Veda).There are certain shlokas in Rig Veda which contains echoes of Sunahsepa myth.

atanu · Apr 9, 2014

Tyāga;3719637 said:
Pranam Atanu,

IMO the mention of Prakriti is from Samkhya influence,i don't know whether if any of the Mukhya Upanishads contains mention of Prakriti.

Svet. Up. does. And I think others also do. Gita is drawn from Upanishads, and I am sure the Upanishads do speak of Prakriti. Often prakriti is mentioned as PradhAna in Vedas, Upanishads and in brahma Sutras.

Aupmanyav · Apr 9, 2014

I checked and did not find any mention of 'Pradhana' in RigVeda at 'Secred-texts.com". All references are from Mahabharata, SrimadBhagawatham, or Sectret Doctrine by Madame Blavatsky.

"According to Zimmer and Ruzsa Samkhya has non-vedic origins:

Both the agrarian theology of Śiva-Śakti/Sky-Earth and the tradition of yoga (meditation) do not appear to be rooted in the Vedas. Not surprisingly, classical Sāṅkhya is remarkably independent of orthodox Brahmanic traditions, including the Vedas. Sāṅkhya is silent about the Vedas, about their guardians (the Brahmins) and for that matter about the whole caste system, and about the Vedic gods; and it is slightly unfavorable towards the animal sacrifices that characterized the ancient Vedic religion. But all our early sources for the history of Sāṅkhya belong to the Vedic tradition, and it is thus reasonable to suppose that we do not see in them the full development of the Sāṅkhya system, but rather occasional glimpses of its development as it gained gradual acceptance in the Brahmanic fold."
Samkhya - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Poeticus · Apr 9, 2014

Aupmanyav said:
Both the agrarian theology of Śiva-Śakti/Sky-Earth and the tradition of yoga (meditation) do not appear to be rooted in the Vedas.

A theological concept of Sky-Earth not
rooted in the Vedas?

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