Voter Restrictions

[exchemist]

The false accusation of a rigged election is not only new but has given to certain politicians a clear path to actually change the vote through state legislatures. If one looks closely at the language of some of these new laws it is to keep the vote 'pure', we all know what that refers to. It is our very democracy that is in serious danger, a signal that the 'experiment' is over.
Add to that a Supreme Court possibly now appearing more political and no more trusted to safeguard our Republic.

I think it remains to be seen (I nearly said the jury's out) whether the Supreme Court will sell out its years of legal training and its reputation to do the bidding of one disreputable politician. I have some faith that most of these judges will feel they have a higher calling than that.

But I share your disquiet about the threat to US democracy that we now see. I'm far from the action but, seeing the situation from across the water, I would not rule out descent into authoritarian fake democracy, or civil war, within ten years. That the GOP has given up on the established democratic process is truly alarming.

 

[exchemist]

What a bunch of pure baloney.

The restrictions are to prevent illegals from compromising the election process which democrats are so very eager to violate.

They are to stop blacks from voting.

 

[F1fan]

The false accusation of a rigged election is not only new but has given to certain politicians a clear path to actually change the vote through state legislatures. If one looks closely at the language of some of these new laws it is to keep the vote 'pure', we all know what that refers to. It is our very democracy that is in serious danger, a signal that the 'experiment' is over.
Add to that a Supreme Court possibly now appearing more political and no more trusted to safeguard our Republic.

My question is what should the people do if republicans succeed in rigging elections to get more republicans elected, like in Texas where the population of the state has added about a million Hispanics but have gerrymandered districts so that they are more likely to vote republican.

And what should the citizens of the USA do if state election boards reject votes for a democrat president and send republican electors instead due to rumors of fraud?

Seriously, if this were to happen as trump was asking numerous state election boards, what will happen?

 

[exchemist]

My question is what should the people do if republicans succeed in rigging elections to get more republicans elected, like in Texas where the population of the state has added about a million Hispanics but have gerrymandered districts so that they are more likely to vote republican.

And what should the citizens of the USA do if state election boards reject votes for a democrat president and send republican electors instead due to rumors of fraud?

Seriously, if this were to happen as trump was asking numerous state election boards, what will happen?

Then the country would need to rely on the Supreme Court, I imagine. And if they did not ensure justice, you would probably be at the beginnings of a civil war.

 

[F1fan]

They are to stop blacks from voting.

But doing it legally. This is why the Democrats have been pushing for the voting rights bill, so that states can't use their local authority to rig the elections towards republicans and away from minorities.

Twilight Hue seems to prefer dismissing this, but then he is a republican and he will benefit politically. Do conservatives find themselves willing to support the voter fraud by republicans since they will get what they want, and to hell with fairness and democracy?

 

[exchemist]

But doing it legally. This is why the Democrats have been pushing for the voting rights bill, so that states can't use their local authority to rig the elections towards republicans and away from minorities.

Twilight Hue seems to prefer dismissing this, but then he is a republican and he will benefit politically. Do conservatives find themselves willing to support the voter fraud by republicans since they will get what they want, and to hell with fairness and democracy?

This is what is so disturbing to a transatlantic observer like me. The GOP has given up on democracy and wants power at any cost, with or without legitimacy. It is the road to fascism.

 

[F1fan]

Then the country would need to rely on the Supreme Court, I imagine. And if they did not ensure justice, you would probably be in a civil war.

How do you see a civil war happening? It's not as if there are two sets of uniforms, or even citizens with a big D or R on their clothes as they go into public.

I could see democrats and moderate republicans doing protests against certain unethical statehouses, and conservative extremists (like the Jan 6 folks) could open fire on them and cause mass casualties. Good luck to police and FBI finding these domestic terrorists. I could see martial law being imposed, but imposed by those who are complicit with the voting fraud, so in essence limiting any protest or free expression of speech. I think this would be the most probable thing to occur. The USA would fall in global trust and reliability as a democracy, and lead to other nations falling into social instability and political crisis.

 

[F1fan]

This is what is so disturbing to a transatlantic observer like me. The GOP has given up on democracy and wants power at any cost, with or without legitimacy. It is the road to fascism.

As a US citizen there is very little concern, even by uber liberals like myself. The liberals I know are aware of the instability among republicans, including friends who are extremely right wing. But we feel basically helpless and have no influence over the circumstances that seem destined to happen. It's like we are on a runaway train that has smooth track for a year perhaps, and then who knows. We really have no clue what is going to happen.

 

[exchemist]

How do you see a civil war happening? It's not as if there are two sets of uniforms, or even citizens with a big D or R on their clothes as they go into public.

I could see democrats and moderate republicans doing protests against certain unethical statehouses, and conservative extremists (like the Jan 6 folks) could open fire on them and cause mass casualties. Good luck to police and FBI finding these domestic terrorists. I could see martial law being imposed, but imposed by those who are complicit with the voting fraud, so in essence limiting any protest or free expression of speech. I think this would be the most probable thing to occur. The USA would fall in global trust and reliability as a democracy, and lead to other nations falling into social instability and political crisis.

I agree it not obvious what the process would be. It may be that the military, paradoxically, are the people that can stop it. But just this week we've seen a warning - from retired Army generals - that there are far-right elements in the US Army that could conceivably side with a GOP bent on seizing power.

 

[pearl]

Seriously, if this were to happen as trump was asking numerous state election boards, what will happen?

Much, I think, will depend on the strength of the current AG and the Justice dept to enforce fair elections. One of the reasons it is so important to pass the 'Voting Rights' bill which of course the Republicans don't want. The worst threat is actually from those who don't bother to vote in local elections, where these plans are formed and passed at the state and local levels.

 

[exchemist]

As a US citizen there is very little concern, even by uber liberals like myself. The liberals I know are aware of the instability among republicans, including friends who are extremely right wing. But we feel basically helpless and have no influence over the circumstances that seem destined to happen. It's like we are on a runaway train that has smooth track for a year perhaps, and then who knows. We really have no clue what is going to happen.

I guess that a lot will depend on whether Trump, or a Trump-like equivalent, is chosen as the GOP candidate next time. Also a lot may depend on whether the Democrats can start to show some maturity and cohesiveness in return. One of the more depressing aspects of the situation is the self-indulgence shown by various Democrat factions and individuals, which weaken the current president and create easy targets for the GOP to set up as bogeymen. The only sure way to avoid trouble is to get a Democrat elected next time, in spite of the shenanigans.

But meanwhile, surely there have to be legal challenges to some of these new rules, e.g. not being allowed to provide food and drink to people waiting in line to vote?

 

[Shaul]

They are to stop blacks from voting.

That statement is baseless.

 

[Shaul]

But doing it legally. This is why the Democrats have been pushing for the voting rights bill, so that states can't use their local authority to rig the elections towards republicans and away from minorities.

Twilight Hue seems to prefer dismissing this, but then he is a republican and he will benefit politically. Do conservatives find themselves willing to support the voter fraud by republicans since they will get what they want, and to hell with fairness and democracy?

The John Lewis (so-called) “Voting Rights” Bill is no such thing. It is a blatant power grab by the Democrats to centralize voting procedures to the detriment of representative democracy in our Republic.

 

[Wandering Monk]

The John Lewis (so-called) “Voting Rights” Bill is no such thing. It is a blatant power grab by the Democrats to centralize voting procedures to the detriment of representative democracy in our Republic.

Republicans presidential candidates have only won by popular vote ONCE since 1988 (2004, Dubya.) They can only win by electoral votes, hence their persistent efforts to make voting harder for their opponents.

 

[Shaul]

Republicans presidential candidates have only won by popular vote ONCE since 1988 (2004, Dubya.) They can only win by electoral votes, hence their persistent efforts to make voting harder for their opponents.

A true non sequitur.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Republicans presidential candidates have only won by popular vote ONCE since 1988 (2004, Dubya.) They can only win by electoral votes, hence their persistent efforts to make voting harder for their opponents.

If eliminating the EC is what it takes to prevent Trump (& his sycophantic followers) from ever being elected again, then I'll all for it.

 

[Kooky]

What a bunch of pure baloney.

The restrictions are to prevent illegals from compromising the election process which democrats are so very eager to violate.

As far as I can tell, the danger of "illegals" (by which I assume you mean immigrants from Latin America, but it's hard to tell from your dehumanizing language alone) unduly influencing the election process in the US is largely a fictional one.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

That statement is baseless.

Not in a country that has a history of doing so.

 

[F1fan]

The John Lewis (so-called) “Voting Rights” Bill is no such thing. It is a blatant power grab by the Democrats to centralize voting procedures to the detriment of representative democracy in our Republic.

Explain how centralizing (or setting standards nationally) is a bad thing?

Do you think local authorities can manipulate vote counts with tactics like limiting numbers of voting machines in certain areas?

Do you think it is a power grab by democrats when a majority of US citizens poll as democrats, yet republicans find ways to get more of themselves elected? How does that represent the population? Trump lost by 3 million votes in 2016. He lost by 7 million in 2020. Republicans should not be the majority.

 

[F1fan]

A true non sequitur.

Yet you wrote:

The John Lewis (so-called) “Voting Rights” Bill is no such thing. It is a blatant power grab by the Democrats to centralize voting procedures to the detriment of representative democracy in our Republic.

The EC is a system that compromises the popular vote with other interests that are largely obsolete today. So it isn't quite representative of the population's desire. If trump had gotten about 50,000 votes in a number of swing states he could have won via the EC despite losing the popular vote by over 7 million citizens. We got lucky this corrupt guy lost. I expected him to lose. I was disappointed he didn't;t lose by more votes in those swing states. This has been his basis of election fraud by lying about fraud in those states.

Do you think it is appropriate that trump in being investigated for fraud in Georgia? He's facing other criminal charges on top of this in other jurisdictions.