Was atheism invented?

[SalixIncendium]

How so?

Because it is.

That's common knowledge. Children are born without knowing a lot of concepts. We learn about abstract concepts in elementary school (if that-I haven't been in awhile ). You ask a toddler or so have you that haven't heard of the term god and think he will give an answer "creator" would be far pressing it. Also, think of children who haven't been born and raised in a christian dominates environment. I was told by one male from china who didn't identify as an atheist (didn't care about it) said in China there really isn't a profound set religion that people just grow up without knowing any religious concept altogether. Plus, belief in a creator has so complicated even Hindu vs. Christianity-how on earth would a toddler or elementary school kid would know that.

They're introduced to theism when they are young. They weren't born into believing in god (a lot of the population don't even believe in the christian god), they were taught god. Take people who were born and raised Buddhist, Hindu, so have you. How would they have any concept of a "creator" defined and determined by abrahamic traditions.

It's not really a theological thing, but just nature and nurture.

It's not "common knowledge."

Can you explain the differences in dispositions of identical twins born and raised under the same conditions?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Dear oh dear. Here you are using my axioms to put yourself in a position to repeat what you always say ─ and I always say this in reply.
Do the angles of a triangle on a plane add up to 180º? Yup. that's the result of axioms ─ albeit not axioms about reality.
They are equally real to you. And I know very well and have explained to you from just about our first conversation that they're axioms, assumptions, whose justification, like any good axiom, is that they work.

And at this point I usually point out to you again that you use them because you also know they work ─ and that if you didn't use them you wouldn't bother thinking I had objective existence. Rather you'd take it ─ or is it the case that you already take it? ─ that I exist only as something created in your solipsistic imagination.

IF YOU BELIEVED WHAT YOU SAY, YOU WOULDN'T BOTHER POSTING.

I don't believe that everything is objective or can be done with only reason, logic and evidence. That is the difference.

My axioms if you want to phrase it that way include, that everything is in part objective and in part subjective and that works, because it explains how we can disagree subjectively about some parts of everything.

 

[SalixIncendium]

So are you suggesting otherwise?

Yes. As I see it, people are born with predispositions inherent is the causal body carried from past experiences.

And before you ask, no I don't have any objective evidence or data to back this up, other than the differences in dispositions of people born under the same conditions. I suppose that renders this a hypothesis.

I have a hypothesis that they are atheists when born; like they are apolitical and have no language or numerical skills. They are taught all these things including religion.

Can you explain the differences of people born and raised under identical conditions? Why might one identical twin be a theist and the other an atheist?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

How so?

That's common knowledge. Children are born without knowing a lot of concepts. We learn about abstract concepts in elementary school (if that-I haven't been in awhile ). ...

So there has always been elementary schools back through human history and the first ones magically arose in Africa, when we became humans?

 

[Altfish]

Yes. As I see it, people are born with predispositions inherent is the causal body carried from past experiences.

And before you ask, no I don't have any objective evidence or data to back this up, other than the differences in dispositions of people born under the same conditions. I suppose that renders this a hypothesis.

So, if they had not been taught by their parents, do you really believe that every one in the US would become a Christian and not a Muslim?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

So, if they had not been taught by their parents, do you really believe that every one in the US would become a Christian and not a Muslim?

So how taught the first humans religion? Well, they invented it based on prior knowledge. Where do knowledge come form?
Answer that and I will leave you alone. Or admit that there is something you can't explain.

 

[SalixIncendium]

So, if they had not been taught by their parents, do you really believe that every one in the US would become a Christian and not a Muslim?

There is an inclination toward theism or atheism or to aspects of a particular religion. People, of course, are subject to upbringing, indoctrination, culture, etc.

I was raised a Catholic. Everyone in my life told me that religion, along with its tenets and dogma, is correct. Why am I not still a Catholic?

 

[blü 2]

I don't believe that everything is objective or can be done with only reason, logic and evidence. That is the difference.

We're not ─ or at least I'm not ─ discussing the role of reason and logic here.

My axioms if you want to phrase it that way include, that everything is in part objective and in part subjective and that works, because it explains how we can disagree subjectively about some parts of everything.

Then why are we arguing?

 

[Aupmanyav]

God said you know He exists and you say God lied.
.. just go and look at your mirror and ask yourself if all those cells you're looking at randomly exploded into existence and arranged themselves without a cause to form what you see in the mirror.

Get some better God. This God is lying to you. I have been a strong atheist since last 30 years. He might be telling you some more lies.
Ah, divine intelligence is necessary for evolution! Wherever you are, you were not taught science. It did not happen with an explosion, it took some 4 billion years to happen from the viral stage.
O fear-monger, O dooms-day prophet, your tricks would not work with me. There is no God, so who will send me anywhere, and there is no hell (or heaven) where this imaginary entity could send me. I am star-dust, I am eternal, I am 13.78 billion years old, and so are you. Why do you hang on to lies?
Realize your 'self'. Our books say "You are that - which constitutes the whole universe" (Tat twam asi).

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Yes. As I see it, people are born with predispositions inherent is the causal body carried from past experiences.

And before you ask, no I don't have any objective evidence or data to back this up, other than the differences in dispositions of people born under the same conditions. I suppose that renders this a hypothesis.



Can you explain the differences of people born and raised under identical conditions? Why might one identical twin be a theist and the other an atheist?

Depends on their external environment too. Twins have separate fingerprints despite their similarities.

The point is the same. Without the toddlers being taught about god, they will not grow up even knowing the concept.

How do young children learn abstract concepts? | Nuffield Foundation

Here's something. God is an abstract concept. It could mean creator, consciousness, love/awe, a number of things. The child can't pick up any of these things without being taught.

How Can Identical Twins Be Different From Each Other?

Despite the genes and upbringing they are unique individuals. Maybe one twin has better predisposition of language than the other. That would affect how he understands abstract concepts like God.

The creator in christian households are synonymous with love. Children experience love, so their parents say that's from god. It's not.

You have children who grow up in countries that never heard of god. If my mother hadn't brought me to church that one and only time she did, I would have never heard of god because I was in an out the hospital and had/have no sense in what a creator is beyond that I read and people tell me.

There's nothing wrong with god being taught to children insofar what they are taught doesn't stifle that child's development when they "naturally" get older and be more aware of their separateness from their parent. Therefore questioning what their parents tell them.

It really depends on environment and upbringing. You'd have to prove how a child can learn a concept he had not been exposed to... (Please)

Take parental love. If that child is neglected by his parent, he doesn't know parental love (without buts and exclusions in this point). If god is love, how on earth would he know such a concept without being exposed to it?

 

[Altfish]

So how taught the first humans religion? Well, they invented it based on prior knowledge. Where do knowledge come form?
Answer that and I will leave you alone. Or admit that there is something you can't explain.

No, they invented it on prior IGNORANCE. The first gods were an explanation of why there was thunder, why the sun rose, why the tides occurred. Gods were invented to explain that.
The gods then evolved into more complex beings as time went on, and the priests realised they could weild power and make a good living out of it.

 

[Altfish]

There is an inclination toward theism or atheism or to aspects of a particular religion. People, of course, are subject to upbringing, indoctrination, culture, etc.

I was raised a Catholic. Everyone in my life told me that religion, along with its tenets and dogma, is correct. Why am I not still a Catholic?

I changed from CofE to atheist. I can explain that but I cannot answer for you, only you know that.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

We're not ─ or at least I'm not ─ discussing the role of reason and logic here.
Then why are we arguing?

Because to you subjectively in the end only the objective is real. To me both the subjective and objective are real as different aspects of the everyday world. That is where it ends.
We can't subjectively agree on how subjectivity works.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

So there has always been elementary schools back through human history and the first ones magically arose in Africa, when we became humans?

I don't understand your point. Question/points are confusion without context

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

No, they invented it on prior IGNORANCE. The first gods were an explanation of why there was thunder, why the sun rose, why the tides occurred. Gods were invented to explain that.
The gods then evolved into more complex beings as time went on, and the priests realised they could weild power and make a good living out of it.

So how does invention work in evolutionary, biological, chemical and physical terms? Or what is invention in evolutionary, biological, chemical and physical terms?
And what is IGNORANCE in evolutionary, biological, chemical and physical terms?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Evidence!

The people who first claimed there was a God is the evidence.

Then atheism became a word afterwards.

Its not the other way around. That would have been silly.

Nobody said there was no God at first prior to the invention of God's.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Because it is.



It's not "common knowledge."

Can you explain the differences in dispositions of identical twins born and raised under the same conditions?

Because it is doesn't back up your statement. The validity of your point falls if you can't support it. Why so?

I'm curious.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I don't understand your point. Question/points are confusion without context

You say children learn abstract concepts in schools. Have there always been schools?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

There is an inclination toward theism or atheism or to aspects of a particular religion. People, of course, are subject to upbringing, indoctrination, culture, etc.

I was raised a Catholic. Everyone in my life told me that religion, along with its tenets and dogma, is correct. Why am I not still a Catholic?

Because you got older and naturally found your uniqueness despite your upbringing.

You would still be catholic if it's "in your genes." It's not. That's what indoctrination does. The physiological response to hunger is apparent till death. Concepts of god are not for survival so we aren't born with that concept.

Why would you leave catholicism if, like hunger, you were born believing in god?

How did your view of god change if the Christian God is what you've been taught?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You say children learn abstract concepts in schools. Have there always been schools?

There's always been some form of giving knowledge such as traditions,orals, etc.

Not a building... The education of others.

God is an indoctrinated concept. Have a child be in a no God country and the parent doesn't teach him God.

How would he know apart from societal and cultural influence?