Was atheism invented?

[Aupmanyav]

But Aryans did not live in India always.
One's post shows that the Aryans succumbed to non-believing philosophies later in the period, their belief in G-d was earlier than that.

You are right, Paarsurrey. Indo-Europeans after the ice-age began their journey from somewhere around Astrakhan, north of Caspian sea from the valley of River Volga - Yamanaya region. The moved towards west, north, and lastly towards east, probably around 3,000 BCE. They reached India not before 2,000 BCE after the decline of the Indus valley civilization. There were various views among Aryans as it always happens. There were monotheists led by Zoroaster who did not come deep into India, those who came were mostly polytheists. Even Zoroastrian books mention Mitra, Varuna, Indra (Verethragna), Vayu (Wind God), etc. They named them 'Yazatas' (Worthy of worship - derivation from Yajna, the Aryan fire-sacrifice). And there were some atheists too. It is not that all Indo-Ayans had became atheists.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You say children learn abstract concepts in schools. Have there always been schools?

Refer to #260

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

There's always been some form of giving knowledge such as traditions,orals, etc.

Not a building... The education of others.

God is an indoctrinated concept. Have a child be in a no God country and the parent doesn't teach him God.

How would he know apart from societal and cultural influence?

So the parents and other adults learned that from their parents and adults and that continues back through time even before there were humans?

 

[firedragon]

Not simply that ─ nowhere have I found the concept of a god who has objective existence ie is real, is found in the world external to the self, which we know about via our senses.

And the only alternative manner in which a god can exist is as a concept or thing imagined by an individual.

But that's not relevant to the question I asked.

 

[firedragon]

I don't find it exactly in it. Kindly highlight for me it if I have missed it please. Right?

Regards

If you read it you will easily. Maybe you didnt.

It was the 2nd point.

 

[Aupmanyav]

And it was just a view of a single person while others believed in G-d?

Now, how do I know as to how many of the Aryans were athiests more than 3,000 years ago. But this one, Prajapati Parameshthi was surely one. There are a few hymns like that in RigVeda. So this leads me to believe that there may have been a few. This is one of the celebrated hymns of RigVeda, it was not removed, proscribed at any time. Therefore, I believe such people were not hated and were accepted as the part of whole variety.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

So the parents and other adults learned that from their parents and adults and that continues back through time even before there were humans?

Yes... They transfer traditions and morals from one "tribe" to the next. That's how societies are built. I'm not sure when people start questioning their own communities but not all do. It's culture.

Indoctrination is very powerful thing. When a lesson has been reinforced since childhood, why else would people think others should believe it naturally too. There's a term for that I'd have to think of what it is.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Can you explain the differences of people born and raised under identical conditions? Why might one identical twin be a theist and the other an atheist?

DNA, Salix, DNA. Each DNA is unique, except perhaps for identical twins. I think in their case, it depends on their experiences.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Yes... They transfer traditions and morals from one "tribe" to the next. That's how societies are built. I'm not sure when people start questioning their own communities but not all do. It's culture.

Indoctrination is very powerful thing. When a lesson has been reinforced since childhood, why else would people think others should believe it naturally too. There's a term for that I'd have to think of what it is.

So even non-humans do that presumably? Does that includes first life in biological terms?

 

[Revoltingest]

So a belief. Check.

That's your belief.
"Opinion" seems more appropriate.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

That's your belief.
"Opinion" seems more appropriate.

Opinion: a view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

So if it is not a fact or knowledge, it is in effect a belief.

Or it is this kind of opinion: a statement of advice by an expert on a professional matter. That amounts to a kind of fact or knowledge.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

@mikkel_the_dane

This just reminded me of something else I learned awhile back in communication class, actually.
Social Learning Theory - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics

"Social learning theory emphasizes observational learning, or acquiring new skills or information, or altering old behaviors by watching others rather than overt, trial-and-error behavior."

Culture is a huge attributor to knowing religious beliefs and concepts as they relate to the community and individual experience as they get older.

There's another idea in which people in general tend to make sense of other people's words and actions by using their perspective in life, religious, and otherwise to justify why the other person thinks differently. So, for example, a theist may think atheists are "secretly" or naturally born theist to make sense of why not all people believe in god (nonetheless a specific one out of thousands). It's natural because we all are pack animals.

When someone comes out and questions the group, they are seen as rejecting or ignorant or so have you and get shunned. God isn't a specific concept. Like love, hate, and so forth, it needs to be taught and experiences attribute to that god-concept in order for people to be indoctrinated in it. Indoctrination doesn't mean "naturally believe in god" like genes because no one would be able to just "not believe." It's conditional. Sometimes for the better and sometimes not.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

So even non-humans do that presumably? Does that includes first life in biological terms?

Non-humans?

 

[Aupmanyav]

You say children learn abstract concepts in schools. Have there always been schools?

Where there is teaching, that is a school. You do not need to have a building proclaiming that. Till late even the mythological princes of India learned under the shade of Banyan trees in their Gurukulas. These Gurukulas were in forests. Children went there around the age of 8 (after the sacred-thread ceremony) and returned only after completing their education around the age of 24.

"A gurukula or gurukulam is a type of education system in ancient India with shishya ('students' or 'disciples') living near or with the guru, in the same house. The guru-shishya tradition is a sacred one in Hinduism and appears in other religious groups in India, such as Jainism, Buddhism and Sikhism. The word gurukula is a combination of the Sanskrit words guru ('teacher' or 'master') and kula ('family' or 'home')."

An ancient gurukula, a modern gurukula, Shahjahan and the Udaipur king embracing each other, Australian aboriginals

Yes... They transfer traditions and morals from one "tribe" to the next. That's how societies are built. I'm not sure when people start questioning their own communities but not all do. It's culture.

For example, the Greeks met at Olympus. Other regions have various fairs, regional markets, where different tribes meet, learn from each other. There was friendship ties between tribes, peace pipes, exchange of head-gear in India (Pagdi-badal) etc. Prince Khurram (later Mughal Emperor Shahjahan, who built Taj Mahal) had a 'pagdi-badal' with the Udaipur king when he was seeking refuge from his father. After that, they are considered as brothers.

 

[Revoltingest]

Opinion: a view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

So if it is not a fact or knowledge, it is in effect a belief.

Or it is this kind of opinion: a statement of advice by an expert on a professional matter. That amounts to a kind of fact or knowledge.

I opine that your belief is an opinion.

 

[firedragon]

No, the subsequent article you gave a link to below, doesn't state that. It is state that they believe in a higher power, but that doesn't have to be a deity and thus linked to divinity.

You mean to say "a higher power" is not a "divinity"?

Mate. Maybe you should understand the meaning theism. Theism comes from the word Theos in Greek. I am sure you know all of this, and if you do dont think this is some kind of schooling. yet, what must be said must be said.

Theos is "higher power". Ho Theos is "The Higher Power". If you want you could call it "divinity". Atheism by definition is either Anti or A (as in asexual) "theism" coming from the word Theos. By definition an Atheist does not believe in any kind of higher power. But see, trying to change the definition of Atheism just because you found an article offensive to you and your kind is I think beneath your intelligence level.

You said I was against the article cited in that post right? Well, the article says Americans' beliefs about the nature of God. Read it clearly and you will understand what is meant by it with relevance.

Again, Atheists by definition are not supposed to believe in a "higher power" of any kind. Zilch. But, some them who claim to be atheists do.

There is nothing wrong with that and there is no need to get so defensive. Its just a fact that Atheism is also an identity statement, and a few of them may not adhere to the same principles as the rest.

There is no need to get into the apologetics mode Mikkel the dane. Its honestly not a big deal.

 

[firedragon]

existence of any Allah or God

Its like saying "Father or Appa".

A lot of people have need unquenched.

 

[Clara Tea]

If God was invented by priests, then godlessness was invented by atheists? How is it better then?

An atheist Bob might reply: "By analogy, smokers have invented smoking; and who then has invented non-smoking? Non-smokers, maybe?"

Me in reply: "Non-smoking as well as a sober lifestyle was invented by the Ministry of Health."

Bob: "Atheism is based on the achievements of science and its evidence, and religion is based only on legends and blind faith."

Me: "Atheism is unscientific because the Supposed Death of God is not scientifically proven. Faith in Wikipedia is defined (with peer-reviewed references) as loyalty, faithfulness to Omniscience. After all, God knows everything.

Given all of the wars that were started by theists, perhaps the Ministry of Healthy should consider ending them?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Non-humans?

We are a string of forefathers and at some time in the past our forefathers weren't humans and didn't have social learning, so where do it idea of gods come form, because it can't have been learned from past forefathers as infinitely back in time, because a point back in time our forefathers weren't humans.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I opine that your belief is an opinion.

And I believe your opinion in the above cases is a belief.