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Was Islam spread by the sword?

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Kirran

Premium Member
But you won't find any such coercion in spread of reformed Islam called Ahmadiyya. Ahmadiyya are coerced to leave but they remain steadfast.

Yes, fair enough. I am not aware of any coercion to convert to Ahmadi Islam having occurred. Of course, the Ahmadis are in a minority in every area they inhabit, so coercion wouldn't be possible. Nevertheless, I hope the Ahmadiyya movements always stick to their values, and resist enforcing their religion and law upon others when the opportunity does become available.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Yes, fair enough. I am not aware of any coercion to convert to Ahmadi Islam having occurred. Of course, the Ahmadis are in a minority in every area they inhabit, so coercion wouldn't be possible. Nevertheless, I hope the Ahmadiyya movements always stick to their values, and resist enforcing their religion and law upon others when the opportunity does become available.
Inshaullah (G-d willing) it will be.
Regards
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Was Islam spread by the sword?
No.
For example:
Spread of Islam in Bermuda:


upload_2015-10-30_13-15-14.jpeg

Bermuda
British Overseas Territory
Bermuda is a British island territory in the North Atlantic, off the eastern U.S., known for its distinctive blend of British and American culture and pink-sand beaches such as Elbow Beach and Horseshoe Bay. Its massive Royal Naval Dockyard complex combines modern attractions like the interactive Dolphin Quest with a look at maritime history at the National Museum of Bermuda.

Capital: Hamilton
Area: 53.2 km²
Currency: Bermudian dollar
Population: 65,024 (2013) World Bank
Continent: North America
data=RfCSdfNZ0LFPrHSm0ublXdzhdrDFhtmHhN1u-gM,m1UNYy2pOg1XkSdDTeKtpSdaEYlrvHDOfavbRA1BqmoX5zD119Ae5CpJGRzJFmZdwYzLTsraWVV7PKjbkBV761mw3COQ6A_X_snHpc_kxjdff_KY48q4sCPLQgCxChk1dfvvUZ79B4hCzyJbLVTQpfTcAEOde5P81dd2k_lVhFOojAr3VR3AObqTlWSfJF83V7YqXLAKoIIzFHc

https://www.google.ca/search?q=loca...l5.7139j1j8&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8

According to a 2009 Pew Research Center report, there are 1,000 Muslims who constitute approximately 0.8% of the population in Bermuda.[1]*
120px-Masjid_Muhammad_-_Bermuda_-_July_2010b.jpg

Masjid Muhammad, 2010

120px-Masjid_Muhammad_-_Bermuda_-_July_2010d.jpg

Main façade

*Bermuda 1,000 0.8 <0.1 Census 2001
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Bermuda

About Muslims in Bermuda


There were non-practicing Muslims in Bermuda since the mid 1900’s. First recognized Muslims were those who reverted to Islam from The Nation of Islam after the death of Elijah Muhammad in February, 1975. Last census shows fewer than 600 Muslims, just under 1% of the population. About 50% are indigenous – of African descent. The rest is made up of ‘residents’ from Trinidad, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Indonesia, Malaysia, Morocco, Bosnia and other countries.

http://www.masjidmuhammad.bm/#!ourcommunity/cjg9

I don't see any sword in spread of Islam in Bermuda . Do you see any?

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Regards

 
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gnostic

The Lost One
More copy-and-paste from wiki pages? Seriously, paarsurrey?

None of this, hide the facts that sometimes Islam did spread after invasions.

Syria and Persia in the 7th century. Spain in the 8th. Then there is Armenia, 16th century. Eastern Europe, after the capture of Constantinople (Byzantium, later Istanbul) by the Ottoman Turks, 1453; and there have been on and off invasion to further west in Europe, right up to 18th century, to Central Europe.

In India, raids occurred from the 10th century to the time of the invasion in the 12th century. Though there have been peaceful conversion in India, before the 10th century, the numbers were very small. Islam didn't flourish in India, until after the 12th century invasion. Peace and trades weren't enough for Muslims, they had to control and rule India, and only then did conversions skyrocketed.

Sure, there have been peaceful and willing conversions among some countries, but you seem to "skirt around the subject" when islam wasn't spread peacefully.
 
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paarsurrey

Veteran Member
More copy-and-paste from wiki pages? Seriously, paarsurrey?

None of this, hide the facts that sometimes Islam did spread after invasions.

Syria and Persia in the 7th century. Spain in the 8th. Then there is Armenia, 16th century. Eastern Europe, after the capture of Constantinople (Byzantium, later Istanbul) by the Ottoman Turks, 1453; and there have been on and off invasion to further west in Europe, right up to 18th century, to Central Europe.

In India, raids occurred from the 10th century to the time of the invasion in the 12th century. Though there have been peaceful conversion in India, before the 10th century, the numbers were very small. Islam didn't flourish in India, until after the 12th century invasion. Peace and trades weren't enough for Muslims, they had to control and rule India, and only then did conversions skyrocketed.

Sure, there have been peaceful and willing conversions among some countries, but you seem to "skirt around the subject" when islam wasn't spread peacefully.

Kindly give a complete list of countries where you see sword in action:
  • Only for conversion to religion Islam.
  • There was no other factor involved, absolutely none, for sure none,certainly none.
  • There were no earlier conversion to Islam before that in that country.
  • If there were earlier conversions , before you see sword in action; what were the clear motives of converts behind?
  • Were the converts since then "under sword" constantly till now that they could not revert to their previous religion? If not, why do they stick to Quran/Islam/Muhammad even now?
Please
Anybody please

Regards
 
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Nietzsche

The Last Prussian
Premium Member
All religions have been spread by the edge of a blade or from the barrel of a gun. Islam is no exception, but nor is it particularly notable in this regard.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
All religions have been spread by the edge of a blade or from the barrel of a gun. Islam is no exception, but nor is it particularly notable in this regard.

Right, you would think this is common knowledge, with all the complaining and moaning about how Xianity was spread in Europe.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Kindly give a complete list of countries where you see sword in action:
  • Only for conversion to religion Islam.
  • There was no other factor involved, absolutely none, for sure none,certainly none.
  • There were no earlier conversion to Islam before that in that country.
  • If there were earlier conversions , before you see sword in action; what were the clear motives of converts behind?
  • Were the converts since then "under sword" constantly till now that they could not revert to their previous religion? If not, why do they stick to Quran/Islam/Muhammad even now?

No one is denying that in some countries it was spread through some countries.

But what I find irritating is that you are denying history of wars and invasions that have also spread Islam.

I have already given list of kingdoms and civilisations in which conversions only flourished after they have conquered civilisations or kingdoms.

Even during Muhammad's life time, the spread of Islam was as much due to his victories against fellow-Arabs on the peninsula as the teaching of Islam. In the last 8 years of his life, he didn't have as much time as he did, because he was commanding his warriors to raid or to make war.

Between the surrender of Mecca and his death, much of people that did convert to Islam, did so without learning much about the Qur'an. Only his closest disciples were privy to what he taught.

After all there was no completely written down Qur'an. And even when it was finally written down, a lot of people cannot read, because the general population were illiterate, or they could read, but couldn't Arabic.

Muhammad only did so much time speaking in public, teaching his new religion. People couldn't spend days for him to recite everything. Only those who were with him, from Mecca before his exile, and those who stood with him in Medina, had enough time to learn what he had to teach.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Right, you would think this is common knowledge, with all the complaining and moaning about how Xianity was spread in Europe.

But that's just is.

People are very well aware of the spread of Christianity, know the history of Europe, that they won't deny it happened. I am far more versed in European history from the Dark Ages to the Baroque than I am with Islamic history, and I am not even European. Racially and culturally, I have Chinese blood, but being brought up in Melbourne suburbs, I have mixed east and west cultures, but I know more of European history than Chinese one.

What I do know about Chinese history, I won't deny the goods and bads that went on, politically, socially or religious. There have been bad blood between the philosophical Confucianism and the mix religious-philosophical Taoism.

The problem is those who can't learn from history, especially those in self-denial.
 
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Desert Snake

Veteran Member
But that's just is.

People are very well aware of the spread of Christianity, know the history of Europe, that they won't deny it happened. I am far more versed in European history from the Dark Ages to the Baroque than I am with Islamic history, and I am not even European. Racially and culturally, I have Chinese blood, but being brought in Melbourne suburbs, I have mixed east and west cultures, but I know more of European history than Chinese one.

What I do know about Chinese history, I won't deny the goods and bads that went on, politically, socially or religious. There have been bad blood between the philosophical Confucianism and the mix religious-philosophical Taoism.

The problem is those who can't learn from history, especially those in self-denial.

Agreed.
 

McBell

Unbound
Kindly give a complete list of countries where you see sword in action:
  • Only for conversion to religion Islam.
  • There was no other factor involved, absolutely none, for sure none,certainly none.
  • There were no earlier conversion to Islam before that in that country.
  • If there were earlier conversions , before you see sword in action; what were the clear motives of converts behind?
  • Were the converts since then "under sword" constantly till now that they could not revert to their previous religion? If not, why do they stick to Quran/Islam/Muhammad even now?
Please
Anybody please

Regards
Kent?
Kent Hovind?
Is that you?
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Please focus on the following points.
  1. Islam has been reformed under the Ahmadiyya and is one of the fastest spreading religious community in the world.
  2. Ahmadiyya or true Islam has peacefully spread in about 206 countries/territories of the world. In about 150 years Ahmadiyya are already more than the Zoroastrians and perhaps the Judaism people, no disrespect intended to anybody.
  3. if one is truthful one would increase despite the opposition, persecution and killings done by the opponents.
  4. Ahmadiyya Muslims follow teachings of Quran as did Muhammad follow. In fact Ahmadiyya follow in Muhammad’s footsteps.
  5. Those who doubt that Islam spread peacefully in times of Muhammad they should focus on spread of Ahmadiyya true Islam, If it has happened now peacefully, it should be a clear sign for the doubtful that Islam spread peacefully in times of Muhammad.
I gave how Ahmadiyya spread peacefully in Argentina in post #2430, in Australia Post #2460 , in Austria Post #2489.
Now I give peaceful spread of Ahmadiyya true Islam in Bangladesh .
220px-Liwa-e-Ahmadiyya_1-2.svg.png

Flag of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community
The Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, Bangladesh or Ahmadiyya Muslim Jama'at Bangladesh (Bengali- আহ্‌মদীয়া মুসলিম জামা'ত, বাংলাদেশ) is Bangladesh's branch of the worldwide Ahmadiyya Muslim Community founded in 1889 in India by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian (1835–1908). Within Bangladesh, the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community have over 100 local branches and can attract up to 10,000 attendees at their national events.[1]
Overview[edit]

87th annual convention of Ahmadiyya Muslim Jama'at Bangladesh

Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad founded the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community and claimed to be the Promised Messiah and Imam Mahdi whose advents were foretold by Muhammad, the prophet of Islam. The Ahmadiyya Muslim Community are rherherjhernow established in 206 countries[2]and the number of followers of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad and number tens of millions world wide.
History of Ahmadiyya in Bangladesh[edit]
Ahmadiyya movement reached in Bangladesh (then Bengal province) in 1905 when a man named Ahmad Kabir Noor Muhammad fromChittagong took initiation on the hand of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. The second man to join the community from Bengal was Rais Uddin Khan, ofKishorganj. His wife Syeda Azizatunnisa also took initiation and she was the first Ahmadi woman from Bengal. In 1909 a student named Mubarak Ali from Bogra went to Qadian and also became a member of the community. The Ahmadiyya movement gained speed in 1912 when a well known sage from Brahmanbaria, Moulana Syed Muhammad Abdul Wahed, became Ahmadi. The Ahmadiyya Muslim Community became officially established in Bengal in 1913 with the name of "Anjuman e Ahmadiyya".[3]
Persecution[edit]
Main articles: Persecution of Ahmadis § Bangladesh and Freedom of religion in Bangladesh § Persecution of Ahmadis
Since its establishment in Bangladesh, members of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community have faced persecution from other Muslim groups. In 1963 two Ahmadis were killed in Brahmanbaria. In 1992, the Ahmadiyya headquarters in Dhaka were attacked by a mob and a number of Qurans & other books were burnt. In 1999, a bomb blast at an Ahmadiyya mosque killed seven people. On 29 October 2003, an Ahmadi Imam named Shah Alam in Roghunathpurbak village in Jhikargachha upazila of Jessore was killed.[4] In 2004, the International Khatme Nabuyat Movement (IKNM) besieged several Ahmadiyya mosques countrywide.[5] In 17 June 2010 an angry mob vandalised an Ahmadiyya mosque and the house of an Ahmadiyya believer at Ghatail upazila in Tangail Thursday.[6] In February 2013, a mob set fire to Ahmadiyya property at a site which had been prepared to hold the community's centenary celebrations, causing tens of millions worth of damage in local currency.[1]
Countrywide centers[edit]

Masjid Baitul Baset chittagong
  • The Bangali Ahmadiyya Community currently has 103 local chapters across the country, in 425 cities and villages.[7]
  • There are 65 missionaries, an MTA (Muslim Television Ahmadiyya) studio in Dhaka and a Jamia Ahmadiyya (Missionary Training College).[7]
  • Maharajpur Mosque in the Natore District [8]
  • Ahmadiyya Muslim Mosque in Khulna [8]
  • Galim Gazi Mosque in Betal, Kishoregonj [8]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmadiyya_in_Bangladesh
  • Country:
    23px-Flag_of_Bangladesh.svg.png
    Bangladesh :Ahmadiyya population : 100,000 : *5:There is also an upper estimate of 200,000 Ahmadi Muslims in Bangladesh.
  • Percentage (%) of Muslims : 0.1 % : Percentage (%) of population :0.1 % :Notes/Sources : Estimate Estimate[7][n 5]*
*[7]"Bangladesh bans Islam sect books". BBC News. January 9, 2004. Retrieved February 22,2014.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmadiyya_by_country

Does one see any sword used for spread of Ahmadiyya true Islam in Bangladesh ?

Regards
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Kent?
Kent Hovind?
Is that you?
Why one mentions "Kent Hovind" here, please? Has Kent Hovind to say anything on the topic? If he is one of one's friend, then please invite him to express his thoughts on the topic. We are all ears to him.
Regards
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
It is in reference to the Kent Hovind Challenge:

Just like the "challenge" you issued in this thread and the "Produce a Surah like it" challenge, it is a "challenge" that can never be won.
I don't "challenge" anybody. Please quote where I challenged anybody literally.
I have nothing to do with this gentleman. I have no claim of any scholarship and or any piety. I am an ordinary man in the street finding truth in life for me. It is my life so I must have concern for it. I don't deride or ridicule others and I do respect others as fellow human beings.
Regards
 
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McBell

Unbound
Your challenge is to show that Islam was spread by the sword.
Now since you have ignored and off handidly dismissed everything that shows you are just flat out wrong, you are issuing a Hent Hovind Challenge.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Your challenge is to show that Islam was spread by the sword.
Now since you have ignored and off handidly dismissed everything that shows you are just flat out wrong, you are issuing a Hent Hovind Challenge.
But I challenged nobody. I have just written what I believed to be truthful.
Regards
 
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