Was Islam spread by the sword?

[paarsurrey]

So you are now only quoting the "spread of Ahmadiyya", and not Muslims in general?
Sorry, but you are moving the goalpost.
Islam doesn't comprise of only those who follow Ahmadiyya, because the Ahmadis only have a very short history...the 19th century to be more precise.
You are completely ignoring all the empires that followed Muhammad's death, in which spread through expansionist policies, namely through wars, invasions and conquests. Are you going to ignore them?
Not all Muslims are Ahmadis.

Sorry, you are not update with the postings in this thread. I have been concentrating on both as both are one and the same, only one has to understand the phenomenon correctly and truthfully. Please
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

So you are now only quoting the "spread of Ahmadiyya", and not Muslims in general?
Sorry, but you are moving the goalpost.
Islam doesn't comprise of only those who follow Ahmadiyya, because the Ahmadis only have a very short history...the 19th century to be more precise.
You are completely ignoring all the empires that followed Muhammad's death, in which spread through expansionist policies, namely through wars, invasions and conquests. Are you going to ignore them?
Not all Muslims are Ahmadis.

Well it is a whole century, not a short period, and Ahmadiyya has spread in 206 countries of the world, not a small number of countries.
Regards

P.S One may like to read:
http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2015/01/09/why-are-ahmadiyya-muslims-getting-so-much-attention/

 

[paarsurrey]

Was Islam spread by the sword?
No.
For example:
Spread of Islam in Bosnia and Herzegovina: [1]

Islam in Bosnia and Herzegovina has a rich and longstanding history in the country, having been introduced to the local population in the 15th and 16th centuries as a result of the Ottoman conquest of Bosnia and Herzegovina.

The Emperor's Mosque, the oldest mosque built in the Ottoman era in Sarajevo, the capital and largest city of Bosnia and Herzegovina.

The Bosniaks are predominantly Muslim by religion, for which reason they have also been emphasized as "Bosnian Muslims" throughout their history, a term which thus also implies ethnic belonging. The vast majority of Muslim Bosniaks are traditionally Sunni Muslims who subscribe to the Hanafi school of jurisprudence, although more recently small minorities of Shia Muslims subscribing to the Twelvers school of thought have also emerged in the country. There are around 3 million Muslim Bosniaks, taking into account historic emigrations and the large diaspora that had left the country during the Bosnian War in the 1990s. An estimated 1.55 million still reside in their native Bosnia and Herzegovina where they constitute 40 percent of the country's overall population.[1]

As such, Muslim Bosniaks comprise the single largest religious community in Bosnia and Herzegovina (the other two large groups beingEastern Orthodox Christians (31%), mostly Serbs, and Roman Catholics (15%), mostly Croats)[1] and form one and the same ethnoreligious community with Bosniaks in the neighboring Sandžak region of Serbia and Montenegro.[2][3][4]
The Ottoman and Austro-Hungarian era[edit]
Main article: Ottoman Bosnia
Islam was first brought to the Balkans by the Ottomans in the mid-to-late 15th century who gained control of most of Bosnia in 1463, and seizedHerzegovina in the 1480s. Over the next century, the Bosnians - composed of dualists and Slavic tribes living in the Bosnian kingdom under the name of Bošnjani [5] - embraced Islam in great numbers under Ottoman rule which also saw the name Bošnjanin transform into Bošnjak('Bosniak'). By the early 1600s, approximately two thirds of the population of Bosnia were Muslim.[6] Bosnia and Herzegovina remained a province in the Ottoman Empire and gained autonomy after the Bosnian uprising in 1831. After the 1878 Congress of Berlin it came under the temporary control of Austria-Hungary. In 1908, Austria-Hungary formally annexed the region.

Bosnia, along with Albania, were the only parts of the Ottoman Empire in the Balkans where large numbers of people were converted to Islam, and remained there after independence. In other areas of the former Ottoman Empire where Muslims formed the majority or started to form the majority, those Muslims were either expelled, assimilated/Christianized, massacred, or fled elsewhere (Muhajirs).[citation needed]

Other small, non-Bosniak, minority groups of Muslims in Bosnia and Herzegovina include Albanians, Roma people and Turks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Bosnia_and_Herzegovina

I don't see any sword in spread of Islam in . Do you see any?

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Regards

 

[Sees]

Was Islam spread by the sword?
No.
For example:
Spread of Islam in Bosnia and Herzegovina: [1]

Islam in Bosnia and Herzegovina has a rich and longstanding history in the country, having been introduced to the local population in the 15th and 16th centuries as a result of the Ottoman conquest of Bosnia and Herzegovina.

The Emperor's Mosque, the oldest mosque built in the Ottoman era in Sarajevo, the capital and largest city of Bosnia and Herzegovina.

The Bosniaks are predominantly Muslim by religion, for which reason they have also been emphasized as "Bosnian Muslims" throughout their history, a term which thus also implies ethnic belonging. The vast majority of Muslim Bosniaks are traditionally Sunni Muslims who subscribe to the Hanafi school of jurisprudence, although more recently small minorities of Shia Muslims subscribing to the Twelvers school of thought have also emerged in the country. There are around 3 million Muslim Bosniaks, taking into account historic emigrations and the large diaspora that had left the country during the Bosnian War in the 1990s. An estimated 1.55 million still reside in their native Bosnia and Herzegovina where they constitute 40 percent of the country's overall population.[1]

As such, Muslim Bosniaks comprise the single largest religious community in Bosnia and Herzegovina (the other two large groups beingEastern Orthodox Christians (31%), mostly Serbs, and Roman Catholics (15%), mostly Croats)[1] and form one and the same ethnoreligious community with Bosniaks in the neighboring Sandžak region of Serbia and Montenegro.[2][3][4]
The Ottoman and Austro-Hungarian era[edit]
Main article: Ottoman Bosnia
Islam was first brought to the Balkans by the Ottomans in the mid-to-late 15th century who gained control of most of Bosnia in 1463, and seizedHerzegovina in the 1480s. Over the next century, the Bosnians - composed of dualists and Slavic tribes living in the Bosnian kingdom under the name of Bošnjani [5] - embraced Islam in great numbers under Ottoman rule which also saw the name Bošnjanin transform into Bošnjak('Bosniak'). By the early 1600s, approximately two thirds of the population of Bosnia were Muslim.[6] Bosnia and Herzegovina remained a province in the Ottoman Empire and gained autonomy after the Bosnian uprising in 1831. After the 1878 Congress of Berlin it came under the temporary control of Austria-Hungary. In 1908, Austria-Hungary formally annexed the region.

Bosnia, along with Albania, were the only parts of the Ottoman Empire in the Balkans where large numbers of people were converted to Islam, and remained there after independence. In other areas of the former Ottoman Empire where Muslims formed the majority or started to form the majority, those Muslims were either expelled, assimilated/Christianized, massacred, or fled elsewhere (Muhajirs).[citation needed]

Other small, non-Bosniak, minority groups of Muslims in Bosnia and Herzegovina include Albanians, Roma people and Turks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Bosnia_and_Herzegovina

I don't see any sword in spread of Islam in . Do you see any?

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Regards

You didn't read the Ottoman conquest part?

 

[paarsurrey]

You didn't read the Ottoman conquest part?

They were just rulers not representative of Islam/Quran/Muhammad.
Regards

 

[Sees]

They were just rulers not representative of Islam/Quran/Muhammad.
Regards

Doesn't work like that in the real world...hence why almost every Muslim-majority country was once part of territory conquered by an Islamic army. It's not a coincidence that they now have a Muslim-majority. In the sources of those doing the conquering there are tales of forced conversion to be found. Same goes with others.

Look at a map of Islamic empire expansion side by side with the Muslim percentage of population map I posted earlier....they line up - with a bit more area added later on and the loss of a good part of India and Spain. It's easy to imagine with continued rulership they would be just as Muslim-populated as Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.

 

[paarsurrey]

Doesn't work like that in the real world...hence why almost every Muslim-majority country was once part of territory conquered by an Islamic army. It's not a coincidence that they now have a Muslim-majority. In the sources of those doing the conquering there are tales of forced conversion to be found. Same goes with others.
Look at a map of Islamic empire expansion side by side with the Muslim percentage of population map I posted earlier....they line up - with a bit more area added later on and the loss of a good part of India and Spain. It's easy to imagine with continued rulership they would be just as Muslim-populated as Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.

Are people of Bosnia and Herzegovina illiterate persons? Aren't they intelligent human beings. Now there is no Ottoman empire, what holds them to Quran/Islam/Muhammad steadfastly? Please
Regards

 

[Sees]

Are people of Bosnia and Herzegovina illiterate persons? Aren't they intelligent human beings. Now there is no Ottoman empire, what holds them to Quran/Islam/Muhammad steadfastly? Please
Regards

Don't know much about them specifically:

Islamic teachings on apostasy might have something to do with it?

The fact that there are only a couple universalist, proselytizing competitors?

That shopping for a religion is a new phenomenon?

You do see though....how conquering with swords and other arms of war leads to rulership and domination....and rulership and domination weighs heavily in deciding what is the most popular and dominant religion? People in general rarely doubt this.

 

[gnostic]

You didn't read the Ottoman conquest part?

He is ignoring what all the Islamic empires have done.

He is ignoring the part where Muhammad had his army marched across the Arabian peninsula, intimidating any town or city into surrender.

He is ignoring all the wars and conquests that followed his prophet's death - Byzantine Syria, Sassanid Persia and Egypt (7th century). He is ignoring the fact that army had gone all the way to the Iberian peninsula (Spain and Portugal), invaded it (8th century).

As early as the late 7th century and early 8th century, they tried to bring down the Byzantine empire by laying siege to Constantinople a number of times, all unsuccessful. This show that not everything about Islam or the Islamic empires are about peace. Is paarsurrey going to ignore that? Of course, he will.

Paarsurrey has also ignored that despite there were some peaceful conversions in what is now Pakistan, and later India, they still send raiding and invasion forces, between the 10th and 13th centuries. Not satisfy with smaller population of peaceful converts they want larger converts, through wars and intimidation.

When it come to debating, he would try to divert our attention to others, areas like about Ahmadiyya, except that the Ahmadis never had any political powers, and very short history. I don't give a crap what the Ahmadiyya did or did not do, because they are small fishes in a much larger scope of Islamic history.

The more he tried to draw attention away from the earlier Islamic history, the more biased and narrow-minded that we see in his argument.

And if he want to focus on just Muslims' place in history, then why does ignore their expansionism of Islam? Why does he ignore the civil wars that had occurred in the 7th century? Why does he ignore the current sectarian violence of the last 2 centuries between Sunni and Shia?

He keep asking for us to provide him with a list, but then he ignore them. The fact is not honest with us, or being honest to himself, and yet he demand us to be honest with him.

We are being honest, but he is ignoring our attempts.

 

[psychoslice]

Was Islam spread by the sword?............well it certainly wasn't spread by flowers or chocolate.

 

[gnostic]

Sorry, you are not update with the postings in this thread. I have been concentrating on both as both are one and the same, only one has to understand the phenomenon correctly and truthfully. Please

Paarsurrey, you have given me a single direct answer, since Day One when this thread started.

I bring up the subject of wars and conquests that happened, and you have ignore them.

All you do is doing is continuously copy-and-paste wiki articles, all of which nothing to do with the empires and invasions. That's not debating...it is not even addressing the issues.

If you can't contribute with some ideas without pasting wiki articles, then you are really wasting our times.

Any fool can copy-and-paste. A smarter and more persuasive person would keep any quotation to the minimum.

After your 1st half-a-dozen (copied) articles, I have stopped reading what you have copied, because you have contribute nothing, except these last STUPID and REPEATED two lines at the end of each post:

I don't see any sword in spread of Islam in [blah, blah, blah] . Do you see any?

Please correct me if I am wrong.

That's not really contributing. It is not even an argument. All you have shown us that you know how to use the COPY and PASTE buttons. Well...whoopee do!

Where is the inspiration? Where is your points?

You have written ANYTHING original. Everybody is sick of your copied wiki articles.

When I write anything, it normally contained my thoughts or ideas. I keep copying from any articles to minimum, because I have got a brain, so I should use it. It should be your idea that's persuasive, not your frequent plagiarism.

PS.

Mestemia was right about you with the Kent Hovind's challenge. Every time you post one of your copy-and-paste wiki article, and you write at the end with "I don't see any sword in spread of Islam in (whatever country you are focusing on). Do you see any? Please correct me if I am wrong" is a challenge.

 

[Useless2015]

He is ignoring what all the Islamic empires have done.

Done what? Conquered lands?

He is ignoring the part where Muhammad had his army marched across the Arabian peninsula, intimidating any town or city into surrender.

That is true. No polytheism allowed on Gods land.Noone is forced to become muslim tho.

He is ignoring all the wars and conquests that followed his prophet's death - Byzantine Syria, Sassanid Persia and Egypt (7th century). He is ignoring the fact that army had gone all the way to the Iberian peninsula (Spain and Portugal), invaded it (8th century).

All this is very true. I find it quite amazing that muslims had so little but took down the Europeans with such ease.

As early as the late 7th century and early 8th century, they tried to bring down the Byzantine empire by laying siege to Constantinople a number of times, all unsuccessful. This show that not everything about Islam or the Islamic empires are about peace. Is paarsurrey going to ignore that? Of course, he will.

No, not really. Thats the way, the world worked back then. If muslims wouldnt conquer, than muslims would be conquered. Kill or be killed. Just as muslims attacked Istanbul, they were also attacked by the Mongolians or Crusaders for example.

Paarsurrey has also ignored that despite there were some peaceful conversions in what is now Pakistan, and later India, they still send raiding and invasion forces, between the 10th and 13th centuries. Not satisfy with smaller population of peaceful converts they want larger converts, through wars and intimidation.

Its impossible to force someone to become muslim.



“So warn them: your only task is to warn, you’re not supposed to force them.” (Qur’an, 88:21-22)


“Had your Lord wanted, all the people on earth would have believed. So will you force people to believe?” (Qur’an, 10:99)


“ There is no compulsion in religion…” (Qur’an, 2:256)

When it come to debating, he would try to divert our attention to others, areas like about Ahmadiyya, except that the Ahmadis never had any political powers, and very short history. I don't give a crap what the Ahmadiyya did or did not do, because they are small fishes in a much larger scope of Islamic history.

Ahmadiya is just a sect of Islaam. They deny the words of the Quran. Not true muslims. Still better than Shiites tho.

And if he want to focus on just Muslims' place in history, then why does ignore their expansionism of Islam? Why does he ignore the civil wars that had occurred in the 7th century? Why does he ignore the current sectarian violence of the last 2 centuries between Sunni and Shia?

Shia is not Islamic. The Shia are more Christian than Muslim. And you should look at what Shiites say and do and what they believe and you will understand the violence.

 

[Augustus]

I find it quite amazing that muslims had so little but took down the Europeans with such ease.

There wasn't really such a thing as 'Europeans' at this time, it is a more recent concept that didn't exist then.

The Roman Empire of the time was mostly outside of Europe: Turkey, Palestine, Syria, Egypt, etc. The European part was mostly in the Balkans. It was Roman in the sense of cultural history, rather than a specifically European ethnicity.

The Roman army that the Arabs (certainly not all Muslims) defeated at Yarmuk was not comprised mostly of Europeans. It was mostly Arabs and the people of the region.

The Arabs had served in the Roman and Persian Armies for centuries prior to this which started the process of the unification of the Arabs and the development of a coherent identity.

The raids on the Roman and Persian Empires started way before Muhammed was even born, which gives you an idea of the increasing power of the Arabs that predates Islam.

 

[McBell]

I am giving my arguments. You could do the same thing, no restriction whatsoever. Please
Regards

Ignoring the truth is not an "argument".

 

[Useless2015]

There wasn't really such a thing as 'Europeans' at this time, it is a more recent concept that didn't exist then.

The Roman Empire of the time was mostly outside of Europe: Turkey, Palestine, Syria, Egypt, etc. The European part was mostly in the Balkans. It was Roman in the sense of cultural history, rather than a specifically European ethnicity.

The Roman army that the Arabs (certainly not all Muslims) defeated at Yarmuk was not comprised mostly of Europeans. It was mostly Arabs and the people of the region.

The Arabs had served in the Roman and Persian Armies for centuries prior to this which started the process of the unification of the Arabs and the development of a coherent identity.

The raids on the Roman and Persian Empires started way before Muhammed was even born, which gives you an idea of the increasing power of the Arabs that predates Islam.

I was referring to Spain. They were conquered by African Muslims. In fact they ruled over Spain and Portugal for over 600 years!

 

[paarsurrey]

Please focus on the following points.

1. Islam has been reformed under the Ahmadiyya and is one of the fastest spreading religious community in the world.
2. Ahmadiyya or true Islam has peacefully spread in about 206 countries/territories of the world. In about 150 years Ahmadiyya are already more than the Zoroastrians and perhaps the Judaism people, no disrespect intended to anybody.
3. if one is truthful one would increase despite the opposition, persecution and killings done by the opponents.
4. Ahmadiyya Muslims follow teachings of Quran as did Muhammad follow. In fact Ahmadiyya follow in Muhammad’s footsteps.
5. Those who doubt that Islam spread peacefully in times of Muhammad they should focus on spread of Ahmadiyya true Islam, If it has happened now peacefully, it should be a clear sign for the doubtful that Islam spread peacefully in times of Muhammad.

I gave how Ahmadiyya spread peacefully in Argentina in post #2430, in Australia Post #2460 , in Austria Post #2489, in Bangladesh Post #2513, in Belarus Post #2535.
Now I give peaceful spread of Ahmadiyya true Islam in Belgium .


Country/Region :

Belgium
Ahmadiyya population : 1,250
Percentage (%) of Muslims : 0.2
Percentage (%) of population : < 0.1
Notes/Sources : Estimate[9]

[9]"Social and Economic Influence of Ahmadiyya Muslim Community in Flanders-Belgium"
http://www.ethesis.net/Ahmadiyya/Ahmadiyya.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmadiyya_by_country

Does one see any sword used for spread of Ahmadiyya true Islam in Belarus ?

Regards

 

[Flankerl]

Ahmadiyya true Islam

 

[MARCELLO]

Was Islam spread by the sword?
No.
For example:
Spread of Islam in Bosnia and Herzegovina: [1]

Islam in Bosnia and Herzegovina has a rich and longstanding history in the country, having been introduced to the local population in the 15th and 16th centuries as a result of the Ottoman conquest of Bosnia and Herzegovina.

The Emperor's Mosque, the oldest mosque built in the Ottoman era in Sarajevo, the capital and largest city of Bosnia and Herzegovina.

The Bosniaks are predominantly Muslim by religion, for which reason they have also been emphasized as "Bosnian Muslims" throughout their history, a term which thus also implies ethnic belonging. The vast majority of Muslim Bosniaks are traditionally Sunni Muslims who subscribe to the Hanafi school of jurisprudence, although more recently small minorities of Shia Muslims subscribing to the Twelvers school of thought have also emerged in the country. There are around 3 million Muslim Bosniaks, taking into account historic emigrations and the large diaspora that had left the country during the Bosnian War in the 1990s. An estimated 1.55 million still reside in their native Bosnia and Herzegovina where they constitute 40 percent of the country's overall population.[1]

As such, Muslim Bosniaks comprise the single largest religious community in Bosnia and Herzegovina (the other two large groups beingEastern Orthodox Christians (31%), mostly Serbs, and Roman Catholics (15%), mostly Croats)[1] and form one and the same ethnoreligious community with Bosniaks in the neighboring Sandžak region of Serbia and Montenegro.[2][3][4]
The Ottoman and Austro-Hungarian era[edit]
Main article: Ottoman Bosnia
Islam was first brought to the Balkans by the Ottomans in the mid-to-late 15th century who gained control of most of Bosnia in 1463, and seizedHerzegovina in the 1480s. Over the next century, the Bosnians - composed of dualists and Slavic tribes living in the Bosnian kingdom under the name of Bošnjani [5] - embraced Islam in great numbers under Ottoman rule which also saw the name Bošnjanin transform into Bošnjak('Bosniak'). By the early 1600s, approximately two thirds of the population of Bosnia were Muslim.[6] Bosnia and Herzegovina remained a province in the Ottoman Empire and gained autonomy after the Bosnian uprising in 1831. After the 1878 Congress of Berlin it came under the temporary control of Austria-Hungary. In 1908, Austria-Hungary formally annexed the region.

Bosnia, along with Albania, were the only parts of the Ottoman Empire in the Balkans where large numbers of people were converted to Islam, and remained there after independence. In other areas of the former Ottoman Empire where Muslims formed the majority or started to form the majority, those Muslims were either expelled, assimilated/Christianized, massacred, or fled elsewhere (Muhajirs).[citation needed]

Other small, non-Bosniak, minority groups of Muslims in Bosnia and Herzegovina include Albanians, Roma people and Turks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Bosnia_and_Herzegovina

I don't see any sword in spread of Islam in . Do you see any?

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Regards

I corrected and you are wrong. You can not even put islam in comparison in East Europe with anything. I am an east european and we are still afraid of Turks incredibly.Never be alone in a silent room with a Turk,he will teach you!!!!

 

[Augustus]

I was referring to Spain. They were conquered by African Muslims. In fact they ruled over Spain and Portugal for over 600 years!

But at that time they were in charge of a very large empire, so it's hardly 'amazing' that they could conquer a territory ruled by a group of people riven with internal conflicts.

This was at the start of the period that the Muslim unity fractured and they started fighting each other and failed to spread further north after being defeated by the Franks.

 

[paarsurrey]

For complete list of countries where Islam spread by the sword, I have started a new thread "Is there a complete list of countries where Islam spread by the sword?". Please read Post #1 and Post #2 in the thread.
Regards