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Was Islam spread by the sword?

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The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
I don't agree with one's stance.
The topic of the thread is "Was Islam spread by the sword?"
Spread of Islam started when Muhammad was chosen by G-d as a messenger/prophet for guidance to the whole world.
It is very rational to start from the above origin. Who were the first converts to Islam? What sword was used to convince them?Does one know?
Regards

It's not rational to assume everyone was introduced to Islam peacefully given that Muhammed forcibly Islamised cities like Ta'if, and began Islamising Mecca only after he had taken control of the city with his army in place to repress dissent. Or that, following Muhammed's death, the Caliphate began sending armies against the Byzantine Empire and Sassanian Persia.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Spread of Islam started when Muhammad was chosen by G-d as a messenger/prophet for guidance to the whole world.
It is very rational to start from the above origin. Who were the first converts to Islam? What sword was used to convince them?Does one know?

You are still ignoring the (REPEATEDLY) examples that I have given.

Did the Jews who were spared in the Banu Qurayza, because they had converted from the fear of death?

They were the only men spared in 630, but the conversion is not done out of free will, because their lives were threatened.

Those who didn't convert were beheaded; and some of the women of Qurayza were taken as slaves, but the rest, including the children were sold into slavery.

Muhammad accepted one of those slave as a gift from one of his friends, and she was only released from slavery when she converted and accepted him as husband. That doesn't sound like she had much of choice too.

And if the only term of peace that Muhammad would accept from the people of Ta'if (630), when they surrendered, then that's

At any time, you hold a threat to a person, whether it be over money (jiyza), slavery, injury or death, then Islam is using pressures and compulsions upon people.

What Muslims like you don't understand, is that a person CAN ONLY HAVE FREE CHOICE, if there are NO CONDITIONS placed on his life or his freedom. Once you start putting conditions, then the choice is dictated by the ones in powers, and that's ALWAYS COMPULSION.

The Qur'an on "no compulsion" is a nice and noble ideal, BUT the reality is, it is a lie, Muhammad and contemporary Muslims don't understand no compulsion, because they place CONDITIONS upon people they conquered.

And by the way, paarsurrey, this statement "Spread of Islam started when Muhammad was chosen by G-d as a messenger/prophet for guidance to the whole world", is complete lie and unsubstantiated claim.

Muhammad was never prophet for the "whole world", because he has not being out of the Arabian peninsula, since he had proclaimed himself as prophet. He has never guided anyone outside of the peninsula.

Islam only began to spread outside of Arabia, when his army went out invaded Byzantine Syria and Egypt, and then Sassanian Persia, so Islam was spread through bloodshed and wars. And the Byzantine capital was besieged by Muslims several times, during the 7th century, after Muhammad's death. Without the armies of the early caliphates, Islam wouldn't have spread so quickly.

Conquered the territories first, then give them as little choices as possible. That's how Islam spread in the 7th century.
 
Last edited:

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Further to Posts #2717, #2720 , #2722, and #2942 in response to OP's Post #1 I have to add:
Those who doubt that Islam spread peacefully in times of Muhammad they should focus on spread of Ahmadiyya true Islam, If it has happened now peacefully, it should be a clear sign for the doubtful that Islam spread peacefully in times of Muhammad.
For instance:
  • Now I give peaceful spread of Ahmadiyya true Islam in
    23px-Flag_of_Indonesia.svg.png
    Indonesia
    [3]
History :
Establishment
R._Muhyiddin.gif

R. Muhyiddin. First President of the Jemaat Ahmadiyah Indonesia. Died 1946.


On October 2, 1925, with 13 members, under the leadership of Rahmat Ali, the first branch of the movement was established in Tapaktuan. A few months later, in 1926, Rahmat Ali moved to Padang, in the west coast of Sumatra and established the second branch of the movement. Following this, several branches of the movement were established all over the Island. In 1931, Rahmat Ali moved to Batavia (known today as Jakarta, the capital of Indonesia), in the northwest coast of Java Island.[7] Although the Community had established a number of branches throughout the country, it was not until a conference was held in December 1935 that the organisational structure of the Community was established.[1] R. Muhyiddin was elected as the first president of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community in Indonesia.[7] The Indonesian branch adopted the name Ahmadiyah Qadian Departemen Indonesia, which was later changed to Anjuman Ahmadiyah Departemen Indonesia in June 1937. In late 1949, after the Indonesian Revolution, the name was once again changed to Jemaat Ahmadiyah Indonesia (JAI), thereby emphasizing the organizational nature of the Community and its connection to the worldwide Ahmadiyya Muslim Community.[1]

In a separate development, the Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement, which had split from the main Ahmadiyya Muslim Community in 1914, sent its first missionary Mirza Wali Ahmad Baig in 1926. Although the Lahore Ahmadiyya was established in the country in December 10, 1928, it was not legally registered in the country (asGerakan Ahmadiyah Indonesia 'GAI') until the following September. Due to a lack of effort produced by the Lahori Ahmadis in seeking converts in Indonesia, and into the faith in general, the group failed to attract a sizeable following. In particular, Mira Wali Ahmad Baig was the last missionary of the group, in contrast to the main Ahmadiyya movement, which had sent missionary after missionary to Indonesia.[1] Due to the organizational strength adopted in overseas missionary activity, during the era of the second Caliphate, and for various financial and theological reasons, the main Ahmadiyya branch became increasingly successful in gaining converts to their interpretation of Islam.[5] Shielded by Indonesia’s Constitution, which guaranteed religious freedom, the Ahmadi Community continued to grow, whilst facing little persecution up until the fall of the Suharto government.[8]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmadiyya_in_Indonesia
Country:
23px-Flag_of_Indonesia.svg.png
Indonesia :Ahmadiyya population : 400,000
  • Percentage (%) of Muslims : 0.2 %
  • Percentage (%) of population:0.2 %
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmadiyya_by_country

Does one see any sword used for spread of Ahmadiyya true Islam in
23px-Flag_of_Indonesia.svg.png
Indonesia?

Isn't it a glorious sign for the wise? Please

Regards
#3282,#3292
 
Last edited:

gnostic

The Lost One
Further to Posts #2717, #2720 , #2722, and #2942 in response to OP's Post #1 I have to add:
Those who doubt that Islam spread peacefully in times of Muhammad they should focus on spread of Ahmadiyya true Islam, If it has happened now peacefully, it should be a clear sign for the doubtful that Islam spread peacefully in times of Muhammad.
For instance:
  • Now I give peaceful spread of Ahmadiyya true Islam in
    23px-Flag_of_Indonesia.svg.png
    Indonesia
    [3]
History :
Establishment
R._Muhyiddin.gif

R. Muhyiddin. First President of the Jemaat Ahmadiyah Indonesia. Died 1946.


On October 2, 1925, with 13 members, under the leadership of Rahmat Ali, the first branch of the movement was established in Tapaktuan. A few months later, in 1926, Rahmat Ali moved to Padang, in the west coast of Sumatra and established the second branch of the movement. Following this, several branches of the movement were established all over the Island. In 1931, Rahmat Ali moved to Batavia (known today as Jakarta, the capital of Indonesia), in the northwest coast of Java Island.[7] Although the Community had established a number of branches throughout the country, it was not until a conference was held in December 1935 that the organisational structure of the Community was established.[1] R. Muhyiddin was elected as the first president of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community in Indonesia.[7] The Indonesian branch adopted the name Ahmadiyah Qadian Departemen Indonesia, which was later changed to Anjuman Ahmadiyah Departemen Indonesia in June 1937. In late 1949, after the Indonesian Revolution, the name was once again changed to Jemaat Ahmadiyah Indonesia (JAI), thereby emphasizing the organizational nature of the Community and its connection to the worldwide Ahmadiyya Muslim Community.[1]

In a separate development, the Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement, which had split from the main Ahmadiyya Muslim Community in 1914, sent its first missionary Mirza Wali Ahmad Baig in 1926. Although the Lahore Ahmadiyya was established in the country in December 10, 1928, it was not legally registered in the country (asGerakan Ahmadiyah Indonesia 'GAI') until the following September. Due to a lack of effort produced by the Lahori Ahmadis in seeking converts in Indonesia, and into the faith in general, the group failed to attract a sizeable following. In particular, Mira Wali Ahmad Baig was the last missionary of the group, in contrast to the main Ahmadiyya movement, which had sent missionary after missionary to Indonesia.[1] Due to the organizational strength adopted in overseas missionary activity, during the era of the second Caliphate, and for various financial and theological reasons, the main Ahmadiyya branch became increasingly successful in gaining converts to their interpretation of Islam.[5] Shielded by Indonesia’s Constitution, which guaranteed religious freedom, the Ahmadi Community continued to grow, whilst facing little persecution up until the fall of the Suharto government.[8]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmadiyya_in_Indonesia
Country:
23px-Flag_of_Indonesia.svg.png
Indonesia :Ahmadiyya population : 400,000
  • Percentage (%) of Muslims : 0.2 %
  • Percentage (%) of population:0.2 %
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmadiyya_by_country

Does one see any sword used for spread of Ahmadiyya true Islam in
23px-Flag_of_Indonesia.svg.png
Indonesia?

Isn't it a glorious sign for the wise? Please

Regards
#3282,#3292
More wiki craps.

Who give a bloody crap about Ahmadiyya. No one here other than yourself is bringing up Ahmadiyya. As far as I am concern, Ahmadiyya being a true Islam, is faulty because of its very short history, and Mirza himself.

I don't care to talk about Ahmadiyya, because this thread is not about one tiny insignificant sect.

You are still being evasive, and not addressing any issue brought up about Muhammad and his actions, and about the early caliphates.

If you don't want to talk about Muhammad or the caliphates, then start a new thread about how Ahmadiyya didn't spread by wars and intimidation.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Post #3283
has NOTHING to do with the origin or spread of islam.
It is a minor sect not even recognized as being islam to many muslims
from your link
With violence and large demonstrations, in 2008, many Muslims in Indonesia protested against Ahmadi Muslims.
So Ahmadi cause violence by being there.

Ahmadiyya don't cause any violence anywhere.

It is political extremism and reflects abuse of of Islam/Quran/Muhammad and is against their peaceful teachings. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad timely warned against it and explained the concept of blood-thirsty Mahdi of the extremist Muslims which has got nothing to do with Islam/Quran/Muhammad:

"In short, the real object of the descent of Jesus (on whom be peace) to the earth, as stated by Muslim sects known as Ahl-i-Sunnat or Ahl-i-Hadith called Wahabis by the common people - is that, like the Mahadev of the Hindus, he should destroy the whole world; that he should first threaten the people to become Muslims and then, if they persist in disbelief, massacre them all with the sword; they moreover say that he is alive in the heavens in his earthly body, so that, when Muslim powers become weak, he will come down and kill the non-Muslims or coerce them on pain of death to become Muslims. Regarding the Christians especially, the divines of the aforesaid sects state that when Jesus (on whom be peace) comes down from the heavens he will break all the Crosses in the world, do many a cruel deed with the sword, and inundate the world with blood. And, just as I have stated, these people, i.e. the Ahl-i-Hadith etc. from among the Muslims, are enthusiastic about their belief that a short time before the coming down of the Messiah there will appear an Imam from the Bani Fatima whose name will be Muhammad, the Mahdi. He it is who will be Khalifa and King of the time, and as he will belong to the Koraish, his real object will be to kill all non-Muslims except those who readily recite the Kalima. Jesus (on whom be peace) will come down in order to help him in his work; and although Jesus himself (on whom be peace) will be a Mahdi - nay, a greater Mahdi - yet, because it is essential that the Khalifa of the time should be a Koraish, Jesus (on whom be peace) will not be the Khalifa of the time; the Khalifa of the time will be that same Muhammad, the Mahdi. Muslims say that these two together will fill the earth with the blood of man, and they will shed more blood than has ever been shed before in the history of the world. No sooner will they appear than they will start this bloody campaign; they will neither preach nor plead, nor show any sign. And they also say that although Jesus (on whom be peace) will be like an adviser or a lieutenant of Imam Muhammad, the Mahdi, and although the reins of power will be in the hands of the Mahdi only, Jesus (on whom be peace) will instigate Hazrat Imam Muhammad, the Mahdi, to massacre the whole world and will advise him to adopt extreme measures, i.e. he will make amends for the humane teaching which he had given to the world before, namely, 'not to resist evil,' and, being struck on one cheek, 'to turn the other cheek also.'"
"Jesus in India" published in 1908.
http://www.alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/intro.html
Hence, under the peaceful teachings of Islam/Quran/Muhammad, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad- the Promised Messiah/ Imam-Mahdi has started the movement of Reformation of Religion under the name of Ahmadiyya which is peaceful and never resort to any violence.
Regards
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
#3283
has NOTHING to do with the origin or spread of islam.
It is a minor sect not even recognized as being islam to many muslims
from your link
With violence and large demonstrations, in 2008, many Muslims in Indonesia protested against Ahmadi Muslims.
So Ahmadi cause violence by being there.
One is simply wrong.
Ahmadiyya never caused any violence in Indonesia:
Letter to President Barack Obama Regarding his Visit to Indonesia and Human Rights Issues
hrw_logo1.gif

Barack Obama
President of the United States of America
The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20500

Via facsimile: +1-202-456-2461

Re: Visit to Indonesia and Human Rights Issues

Dear President Obama,

Your administration has placed great emphasis on its deepening relationship with Indonesia. We believe your trip to Bali for the East Asian Summit on November 19, 2011, is an important opportunity for you to raise human rights issues with the Indonesian government, both publicly and privately, including matters concerning freedom of religion, freedom of expression, and accountability of the military for human rights abuses.

Freedom of Religion
Impunity for Abuses by the Military
Intelligence Law
Threats to Free Expression

Sincerely,

Brad Adams
Executive Director
Asia Division

div67.gif

Source:
www.hrw.org/news/2011/11/15/letter-president-barack-obama-regarding-his-
visit-indonesia-and-human-rights-issues
https://www.persecutionofahmadis.or...s-visit-to-indonesia-and-human-rights-issues/

Only the headings in the letters have been given by me for full letter, please click the above link.

Regards
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
More wiki craps.
Who give a bloody crap about Ahmadiyya. No one here other than yourself is bringing up Ahmadiyya. As far as I am concern, Ahmadiyya being a true Islam, is faulty because of its very short history, and Mirza himself.
I don't care to talk about Ahmadiyya, because this thread is not about one tiny insignificant sect.
You are still being evasive, and not addressing any issue brought up about Muhammad and his actions, and about the early caliphates.
If you don't want to talk about Muhammad or the caliphates, then start a new thread about how Ahmadiyya didn't spread by wars and intimidation.
I don't agree with you.
Muhammad prophesied for the re-establishment of Caliphate with the coming of Messiah- and_ Imam-Mahdi, so it is very much part of Islam. Right?
Regards
 

leibowde84

Veteran Member
I don't agree with you.
Muhammad prophesied for the re-establishment of Caliphate with the coming of Messiah- and_ Imam-Mahdi, so it is very much part of Islam. Right?
Regards
Can you provide a citation for that. Interested to read the Quranic text itself.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Can you provide a citation for that. Interested to read the Quranic text itself.
[24:56]Allah has promised to those among you who believe and do good works that He will surely make them Successors in the earth, as He made Successorsfrom amongthose who were before them; and that He will surely establish for them their religion which He has chosen for them; and that He will surely give them in exchange securityand peaceafter their fear: They will worship Me,andthey will not associate anything with Me. Then whoso is ungrateful after that, they will be the rebellious.
[24:57]And observe Prayer and give the Zakat and obey the Messenger, that you may be shown mercy
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?submitCh=Read+from+verse:&ch=24&verse=56
Regards
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Was Islam spread by the sword?
No.
Islam did not spread by sword. In fact sword is a hindrance in the way of spread of Islam. Quran provides both commandments and the gist of wisdom of the same; this peculiarity is not retained in book of any other revealed religion.Islam flourishes most in peace with its strong reasonable and rational arguments.
For example:

Spread of Islam in Croatia: [2]
200px-Zagreba%C4%8Dka_d%C5%BEamija.jpg

Zagreb Mosque was completed in 1987.
250px-Hrvatska-dzamije.jpg

Location of Mosques in Croatia

Islam is the second-largest faith in Croatia after Christianity. The religion is followed by 1.47% of the country's population according to the 2011 census, compared to 86.28% Roman Catholics, 4.57% not religious, atheists, agnostics and sceptics, 4.44% Orthodox Christians and 0.34% Protestants.[1]


Muslim population in Croatia: It increased from 4,000 in 1931 to 62,977 in 2011.

Muslim population 2010 Pew Report[1]:60,000
Muslim percentage (%) of total population 2010 Pew Report[1] :1.4
Percentage (%) of World Muslim population 2010 Pew Report[1] :< 0.1
Muslim Population Other Sources : -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country

Please correct me if I am wrong.
Regards

#3303
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Was Islam spread by the sword?
No.
Islam did not spread by sword. In fact sword is a hindrance in the way of spread of Islam. Quran provides both commandments and the gist of wisdom of the same; this peculiarity is not retained in book of any other revealed religion.Islam flourishes most in peace with its strong reasonable and rational arguments.
For example:

Peaceful Spread of Islam in Cuba: [1]

data=RfCSdfNZ0LFPrHSm0ublXdzhdrDFhtmHhN1u-gM,2TLkWOhrmgnR4WgCnCLDJaF0xVRbPkRkBLcxuP1iBGUEa_lMunekgqYDlvqfAYCeKBmAT4dkpFqWYwC9yd9Nqga2ChnalhhsjqvDz4QmKYOY1oDCZX8aUOH80RMlz1YFA1k89hsBI3i8q5_GXPZstHuH_dmg0gnr_q9L83nMCiQH5hsQCgxXBJ6uza0V0dNh8SoySYxajjuEDSU
upload_2016-3-18_15-16-31.png

Cuba, a large Caribbean island nation under communist rule, is known for its white-sand beaches, rolling mountains, cigars and rum. Its colorful capital, Havana, features well-preserved Spanish colonial architecture within its 16th-century core, Old Havana, loomed over by the pre-revolutionary Capitolio. Salsa emanates from the city's dance clubs and cabaret shows are performed at the famed Tropicana.
According to a 2009 Pew Research Center report, there were then 9,000 Muslims in Cuba who constitute 0.1% of the population.[1] As of 2012, most of the nearly 10,000 Cuban Muslims were converts to the religion.[2]

At a certain point there were many Muslim students entering the nation of Cuba interested in studying at Cuba's prestigious schools. The amount of students was approximately 1500-2000. Among that group were students of Pakistani origin, among others. It is known that the dominant population that went to study at Cuba was the Pakistani students who were about 936 in strength. In 2001, Sheikh Muhammad bin Nassir Al-Aboudy, the Assistant Secretary-General of the Muslim World League (MWL) travelled to Cuba to obtain permission from the Cuban authorities to establish an Islamic organization that would support Cuba’s Muslim community. Among the other aims of the proposed organization would be constructing mosques and the dissemination of Islamic culture among Muslims.

As of July 2015 the Turkish Religious Affairs Foundation had opened the first prayer room for Cuban Muslims and the first mosque in Cuba was under construction with Turkish funding.[3]
Origins[edit]
Cuban Muslims learned Islam through embassies of Middle Eastern countries as well as through students coming to study in Cuba from Muslim countries. Islam started to spread among Cubans in the 1970s and '80s. Printed and audio-visual Islamic resources are now almost nonexistent in Cuba. Spanish translation of the Quran and other major Islamic books are not available in the country. The Muslim community of Cuba even lacks educated religious cadres.[4]

"Casa de los Árabes"[edit]
Cuba’s Muslims usually pray in their homes. Although former President Fidel Castro was reported to have promised to build a mosque for his country’s Muslims, according to members of the Humanitarian Aid Foundation (IHH) who visited Cuba,[5] there is no mosque in Havana and the state does not allow the construction of mosques. The only prayers performed in public are the Friday Prayers that are conducted in a place known as Casa de los Árabes ("The Arab House") in old Havana. The Arab House belonged to a wealthy Arab immigrant who lived in Cuba during the 1940s, and it was built on Andalusian architectural designs. The House encompasses an Arab museum and restaurant. Qatar donated US$40,000 for the remodeling of the House, but it is only opened for Friday prayers, and Cuban Muslims are not allowed to use the facilities; only reserved for non-Cuban Muslims, such as tourists and diplomats, may pray there.[6]

Religious Groups[edit]
There are two Islamic groups in Cuba: the Cuban Islamic Union, which is headed by its president, Imam Yahya Pedro,[4] and the Islamic Association of Cuba, in Havana.[7]

Notable Muslims[edit]
  • Alí Nicolás Cossío - Former foreign ministry official who now reports for the "Voice of Islam", a radio station[8]
  • Juan Carlos Gomez - Professional Boxer and former Cruiserweight Champion
https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=Cuba
Country/region: Cuba
Muslim population 2010 Pew Report[1]:10,000
Muslim percentage (%) of total population 2010 Pew Report[1] :0.1
Percentage (%) of World Muslim population 2010 Pew Report[1] :< 0.1
Muslim Population Other Sources : -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country
Islam spread peacefully in Cuba.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
Regards


 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Can you provide a citation for that. Interested to read the Quranic text itself.
[24:56]Allah has promised to those among you who believe and do good works that He will surely make them Successors in the earth, as He made Successorsfrom amongthose who were before them; and that He will surely establish for them their religion which He has chosen for them; and that He will surely give them in exchange securityand peaceafter their fear: They will worship Me,andthey will not associate anything with Me. Then whoso is ungrateful after that, they will be the rebellious.
[24:57]And observe Prayer and give the Zakat and obey the Messenger, that you may be shown mercy
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?submitCh=Read+from+verse:&ch=24&verse=56
Regards
leibowde84 likes this.
The detail of as to how will it happen was told by Muhammad in a Hadith:
قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم: تكون النبوة فيكم ما شاء الله أن تكون، ثم يرفعها الله إذا شاء أن يرفعها، ثم تكون خلافة على منهاج النبوة فتكون ما شاء الله أن تكون، ثم يرفعها الله إذا شاء أن يرفعها، ثم تكون ملكًا عاضًا فيكون ما شاء الله أن يكون، ثم يرفعها إذا شاء الله أن يرفعها، ثم تكون ملكًا جبرية فتكون ما شاء الله أن تكون، ثم يرفعها الله إذا شاء أن يرفعها، ثم تكون خلافة على منهاج النبوة، ثم سكت.
It was narrated by Ahmed in his Musnad, from Al-Nu’man b. Bashir, who said: “We were sitting in the mosque of the Messenger of Allah (saw), and Bashir was a man who did not speak much, so Abu Tha’labah Al-Khashnee came and said: ‘Oh, Bashir bin Sa’ad, have you memorized the words of the Messenger of Allah (saw) regarding the rulers?’ Huthayfah replied, ‘I have memorized his words’. So Abu Tha’labah sat down and Huthayfah said, ‘The Messenger of Allah (saw) said ‘Prophet-hood will be amongst you as long as Allah wishes, then He will lift it up when He wishes to lift it up. Then there will be a Khilafah on the way of the Prophet, and it will be as long as Allah wishes it to be, then Allah will lift it up when He wishes to lift it up. Then there will be an inheritance rule (ملكًا عاضًا), and it will last as long as Allah wishes it to, then Allah will lift it up if when He wishes to lift it up. Then there will be a coercive rule(ملكًا جبرية), and it will last as long as Allah wishes it to be, then Allah will lift it up when He wishes to lift it up. Then there will be a Khilafah* on the way of Prophet-hood.’ Then he was silent.”
*Caliphate
Reference: Masnad Ahmed bin Hanbal (Hadith # 18430) , As-Saheeha al-Albani (Hadith # 5). It has been declared Hasan by Sh’uaib Arnaoot, and al-Albani classified it as Sahih. The text quoted is the one from Masnad Ahmed.​
Regards
 
Last edited:

jeager106

Learning more about Jehovah.
Premium Member
Rifqa Bary claims her father wants her dead after she converted to Christianity.
Source:http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/09/03/muslim.convert/index.html

Read for yourself:
http://answering-islam.org/Terrorism/by_the_sword.html

Short answer. Yes. In many places in the past Islam was spread at the point of
a sword.
Be careful if reading sites that are Muslim operated as those sites will naturally
present Islam in the best possible light.

Many Westerners do believe that Islam is so widespread in the world today simply because of a "holy campaign of terror" carried out by the early Muslims to convert non-Muslims to Islam. Non-Muslims were offered the freedom to choose either Islam or death.

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100130025205AAcYUwL
 
Last edited:

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Rifqa Bary claims her father wants her dead after she converted to Christianity.
Source:http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/09/03/muslim.convert/index.html

Read for yourself:
http://answering-islam.org/Terrorism/by_the_sword.html

Short answer. Yes. In many places in the past Islam was spread at the point of
a sword.
Be careful if reading sites that are Muslim operated as those sites will naturally
present Islam in the best possible light.

Many Westerners do believe that Islam is so widespread in the world today simply because of a "holy campaign of terror" carried out by the early Muslims to convert non-Muslims to Islam. Non-Muslims were offered the freedom to choose either Islam or death.

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100130025205AAcYUwL
"Non-Muslims were offered the freedom to choose either Islam or death."
It is wrong.
Quran gives no such teaching.
Regards
 

jeager106

Learning more about Jehovah.
Premium Member
Well being accepting of Islam is POLITICALLY CORRECT.
It matters not what history says as history is being rewritten with every
new history text.
Written history lies.
Islam is NOT a friend to the west and certainly not a friend to Christianity.
One might have to dig really deep these days to find the crimes committed
by Christianity and Islam committed one against the other.
 

jeager106

Learning more about Jehovah.
Premium Member
Link:http://www.emannabih.com/muslim-brotherhood-massacres-against-christians-in-egypt/

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/more-hate-crimes-against-christians-than-muslims/

I could post a dozen but you get the idea. Do a search of your own.
You should.\

Many don't get "it" that being truthful about crimes of "minorities" is not
Politically Correct in this day and age of blindly accepting all cultures and
peoples as "brothers and sisters" of the Universe.
Keep thinking that way and ask yourself "why" when your about to be shot in the head.
Liberals couldn't accept what the military was afraid of when the Japanese military
buildup was going on.
The RAPE of China was largely ignored until BOMBS were being dropped by Japanese
planes on Pearl Harbor.
 

leibowde84

Veteran Member
The detail of as to how will it happen was told by Muhammad in a Hadith:
قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم: تكون النبوة فيكم ما شاء الله أن تكون، ثم يرفعها الله إذا شاء أن يرفعها، ثم تكون خلافة على منهاج النبوة فتكون ما شاء الله أن تكون، ثم يرفعها الله إذا شاء أن يرفعها، ثم تكون ملكًا عاضًا فيكون ما شاء الله أن يكون، ثم يرفعها إذا شاء الله أن يرفعها، ثم تكون ملكًا جبرية فتكون ما شاء الله أن تكون، ثم يرفعها الله إذا شاء أن يرفعها، ثم تكون خلافة على منهاج النبوة، ثم سكت.
It was narrated by Ahmed in his Musnad, from Al-Nu’man b. Bashir, who said: “We were sitting in the mosque of the Messenger of Allah (saw), and Bashir was a man who did not speak much, so Abu Tha’labah Al-Khashnee came and said: ‘Oh, Bashir bin Sa’ad, have you memorized the words of the Messenger of Allah (saw) regarding the rulers?’ Huthayfah replied, ‘I have memorized his words’. So Abu Tha’labah sat down and Huthayfah said, ‘The Messenger of Allah (saw) said ‘Prophet-hood will be amongst you as long as Allah wishes, then He will lift it up when He wishes to lift it up. Then there will be a Khilafah on the way of the Prophet, and it will be as long as Allah wishes it to be, then Allah will lift it up when He wishes to lift it up. Then there will be an inheritance rule (ملكًا عاضًا), and it will last as long as Allah wishes it to, then Allah will lift it up if when He wishes to lift it up. Then there will be a coercive rule(ملكًا جبرية), and it will last as long as Allah wishes it to be, then Allah will lift it up when He wishes to lift it up. Then there will be a Khilafah* on the way of Prophet-hood.’ Then he was silent.”
*Caliphate
Reference: Masnad Ahmed bin Hanbal (Hadith # 18430) , As-Saheeha al-Albani (Hadith # 5). It has been declared Hasan by Sh’uaib Arnaoot, and al-Albani classified it as Sahih. The text quoted is the one from Masnad Ahmed.​
Regards
So, it isn't specifically referred to in the Quran? Only in that hadith? And, isn't it true that not everyone who identifies as a Muslim adheres to that hadith?
 
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