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Was Islam spread by the sword?
- Thread starter ZooGirl02
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Shad
Veteran Member
If the cause was not a valid casus belli or in fact fabricated then the clause of defensive wars is invalid. Also the ends do not justify the means. Otherwise one must accept a number of horrible acts as acceptable because the results were good. For example Israeli is justified in it's acts as the nation developed the land far more than it's neighbors have. Nevermind that this prosperity came at the cost of other people and war.
As other have pointed out treating people based on their religion is a form of discrimination. Discrimination at the state level propagated by those which controlled the armies aka the swords. As I have pointed out before even sources link by Paar prove that there are cases in which Islam was spread by forced conversion with the threat of death. There is also forced conversion of the Devsirme system of the Ottomans. There is also the case to be made that Islam was spread in the wake of it's armies. Armies which protected the new state, which as I noted treated people based on religion first and foremost. Armies which reinforced state policy and put down even internal conflicts between Muslims. This is evident if one even spends an hour reading Islamic history. While I admit the tolerance with many Muslim political entities was a far better improvement than that of Christianity. It was not superior to the Roman system or modern secular societies.
So there are cases in which Islam was spread by oppression, violence, merit and dialogue. It is not black and white case for Islam. However many wish it to be so based on their religious ideology or the opposition to it.
mahasn ebn sawresho
Well-Known Member
Sword and gun and suicide
Names to one meaning of violence and terrorism
In the past, the sword but today the rifle and the rocket
Who wants to see how forcing people to convert to Islam that searches the net for members of the Yazidi community in Mosul and how are they being forced to convert to Islam
I watched the video on Yahoo today but I don't know how to move it to the Forum
This latest round of Islam in Mosul
And unbelievable looking in the Yezidi and the ones you will know truth of Islam talk
Names to one meaning of violence and terrorism
In the past, the sword but today the rifle and the rocket
Who wants to see how forcing people to convert to Islam that searches the net for members of the Yazidi community in Mosul and how are they being forced to convert to Islam
I watched the video on Yahoo today but I don't know how to move it to the Forum
This latest round of Islam in Mosul
And unbelievable looking in the Yezidi and the ones you will know truth of Islam talk
Avi1001
reform Jew humanist liberal feminist entrepreneur
Yes, these are terrible acts.
Thank you for making the post more understandable too.
mahasn ebn sawresho
Well-Known Member
I think that the victory of the Muslims over the Romans is inaccurate scientifically
Because Muslims have prevailed in some battles with the Romans in the Roman colonies
These colonies are Egypt, Syria, Palestine and parts of Iraq
Then there is an Islamic victory over the Romans in exact meaning
And either surgery, Constantine is the battle battle between Ottoman Muslims and the Roman Empire, Honorary
The end of the Muslim victories but were unable to enter to the heart of the Roman Empire
With the exception of the fall of Spain zalti edited later to all Western hahod
And felt the gravity of Islam and that the idea of colonial as is the case with other colonists
And the reasons for the fall of Roman colonies
There are many reasons
mahasn ebn sawresho
Well-Known Member
Thank you
I learned to use the new browser in translation
Human learning always and sometimes experience
Avi1001
reform Jew humanist liberal feminist entrepreneur
The translation tool is good, but you have to be careful it is saying what you want. It is sort of like using a GPS for navigation, it is great unless it tells you to drive over the side of a bridge.
Chev Chelios
Member
Hezbollah have not forsaken the basic tenents of Islam, their stated goal (amongst other pronouncements) is in accordance with Islamic theology and so therefore they cannot be deemed to be a secular party! The strong religious identity they advocate and impose upon many means that they transpose Islamic views on political affairs thereby nullifying any separation of powers between religion and politics, thus, it can be seen that their religious component colours the political discourse
Chev Chelios
Member
You continue posting the same one sided and deeply deceptive posts regarding Somalia but failed to answer my questions - which I think were fair and so I would like an answer please.
You suggest that Islam subscribes to a more secular worldview than any other religion - so prove it. Please give me examples of these texts which you are alluding too - if you cannot then we see that your claims are completely hollow and you should therefore never make such a claim again.
Furthermore, you said that Islam affords equal religious rights for all - I countered this by pointing out that we have never seen this in 1400 years and I gave you scriptual evidence from the Koran to support my disagreement. I would like you to challenge my case and also provide texts from the koran which you believe shows that Islam supports equal treatment for all religions.
I say to you quite confidently that Islam's holy texts clearly advocate a hierachal approach to religion and mandates seperate rights for Moslems and Non Moslems which by definition proves conclusively that Islam is inherently discriminatory (which is exactly what we have and do see in the Moslem majority world) and so does not champion equality.
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paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Was Islam spread by the sword?
No.
For example:
Spread of Islam in Somalia: [5]
Nearly all people in Somalia are Sunni Muslims. For more than 1400 years, Islam made a great part of Somali society.[1]Practicing Islam reinforces distinctions that further set Somalis apart from their immediate neighbors, many of whom are either Christians or adherents of indigenous faiths. The early Muslims sought refuge from persecution in cities on the northern Somali coast.
History
Modern era [3]
The campaign for scientific socialism intensified in 1972. On the occasion of Eid al-Adha, the major Muslim festival associated with the pilgrimage, the president defined scientific socialism as half practical work and half ideological belief. He declared that work and belief were compatible with Islam because the Qur'an condemned exploitation and money lending and urged compassion, unity, and cooperation among Muslims.
But he stressed the distinction between religion as an ideological instrument for the manipulation of power and as a moral force. He condemned the antireligious attitude of Marxists. Religion, Siad Barre said, was an integral part of the Somali worldview, but it belonged in the private sphere, whereas scientific socialism dealt with material concerns such as poverty. Religious leaders should exercise their moral influence but refrain from interfering in political or economic matters.
In early January 1975, evoking the message of equality, justice, and social progress contained in the Qur'an, Siad Barre announced a new family law that gave women the right to inheritance on an equal basis with men. Some Somalis believe the law was proof that the SRC wanted to undermine the basic structure of Islamic society.
In Mogadishu twenty-three religious leaders protested inside their mosques. They were arrested and charged with acting at the instigation of a foreign power and with violating state security; ten were executed. Sheikh Ahmed Sheikh Mohamed Walaaleeye and Sheikh Hassan Absiye Derie were among them. Most religious leaders, however, kept silent. The government continued to organize training courses for shaykhs in scientific socialism.
Islam in Somalia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I don't see any sword in spread of Islam in Somalia.
Regard
No.
For example:
Spread of Islam in Somalia: [5]
Nearly all people in Somalia are Sunni Muslims. For more than 1400 years, Islam made a great part of Somali society.[1]Practicing Islam reinforces distinctions that further set Somalis apart from their immediate neighbors, many of whom are either Christians or adherents of indigenous faiths. The early Muslims sought refuge from persecution in cities on the northern Somali coast.
History
Modern era [3]
The campaign for scientific socialism intensified in 1972. On the occasion of Eid al-Adha, the major Muslim festival associated with the pilgrimage, the president defined scientific socialism as half practical work and half ideological belief. He declared that work and belief were compatible with Islam because the Qur'an condemned exploitation and money lending and urged compassion, unity, and cooperation among Muslims.
But he stressed the distinction between religion as an ideological instrument for the manipulation of power and as a moral force. He condemned the antireligious attitude of Marxists. Religion, Siad Barre said, was an integral part of the Somali worldview, but it belonged in the private sphere, whereas scientific socialism dealt with material concerns such as poverty. Religious leaders should exercise their moral influence but refrain from interfering in political or economic matters.
In early January 1975, evoking the message of equality, justice, and social progress contained in the Qur'an, Siad Barre announced a new family law that gave women the right to inheritance on an equal basis with men. Some Somalis believe the law was proof that the SRC wanted to undermine the basic structure of Islamic society.
In Mogadishu twenty-three religious leaders protested inside their mosques. They were arrested and charged with acting at the instigation of a foreign power and with violating state security; ten were executed. Sheikh Ahmed Sheikh Mohamed Walaaleeye and Sheikh Hassan Absiye Derie were among them. Most religious leaders, however, kept silent. The government continued to organize training courses for shaykhs in scientific socialism.
Islam in Somalia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I don't see any sword in spread of Islam in Somalia.
Regard
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
I think I gave the link; if one missed; I quote again from Mirza Tahir Ahmad; the late Caliph of Ahmadiyya Muslim Jamaat:
"The very essence of secularism is that absolute justice must be practised regardless of the differences of faith and religion and colour and creed and group.
This, in essence, is the true definition of secularism. And this is exactly what the Holy Qur'an admonishes us to do in matters of state, how things should be done and how the state should be run. The Holy Qur'an says" 16:91, and I quote it with the context verses:[1]
The Holy Quran : Chapter 16: Al-Nahl
[16:86] And when those who did wrong actually see the punishment, it will not be made light for them, nor will they be granted respite.
[16:87] And when those who associate partners with God will see their associate-gods, they will say, Our Lord, these are our associate-gods whom we used to call upon instead of Thee. Thereupon, they will retort on them with the words, Surely, you are liars.
[16:88] And they will offer submission to Allah on that day, and all that they used to forge shall fail them.
[16:89] As for those who disbelieve and turn men away from the way of Allah, We will add punishment to their punishment because they acted corruptly.
[16:90] And remember the day when We will raise up in every people a witness against them from amongst themselves, and We will bring thee as a witness against these. And We have sent down to thee the Book to explain everything, and a guidance, and a mercy, and glad tidings to those who submit to God.
[16:91] Verily, Allah enjoins justice, and the doing of good to others; and giving like kindred; and forbids indecency, and manifest evil, and wrongful transgression. He admonished you that you may take heed.
[16:92] And fulfil the covenant of Allah when you have made; and break not the oaths after making them firm, while you have made Allah your surety. Certainly, Allah knows what you do.
[16:93] And be not like unto her who, after having made it strong, breaks her yarn into pieces. You make your oaths a means of deceit between you, for fear lest one people become more powerful than another. Surely, Allah tries you therewith, and on the Day of Resurrection He will make clear to you that wherein you differed.
[16:94] And if Allah had enforced His will, He would surely have made you all one people; but He lets go astray him who wishes it, and guides him who wishes it; and you shall surely be questioned concerning that which you have been doing.
[16:95] And make not your oaths a means of deceit between you; or your foot will slip after it has been firmly established, and you will taste evil because you turned people away from the path of Allah, and you will have a severe punishment.
The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online
I have given the first verse 16:91 and colored it in Magenta above for the perusal of the viewers.
Everybody's comments are welcome; whether religious or not religious.
Regards
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
I don't know how the ordinary people can't observe the conspiracy that goes on in the ME.
Israel is an enemy to Syria and Bashar worked against Israel by supporting Hezbollah.
Israel is an enemy to Iran because it supports Hamas,Syria and Hezbollah.
Israel controls America and no one can stop them from doing so even the president himself.
Everyone knows how Al Qaeda was created by the CIA and how it was used later on as an Islamic terrorists that threats the west and America and the false flag of 9/11 which was to convince the Americans that Muslims are terrorists and they hate America and the west.
[youtube]THQlv2eskYQ[/youtube]
Zionist domination of the United States, How Israel controls America? - YouTube
Now again new groups of Islamic terrorists suddenly appeared in Syria and Iraq after the invasion of Iraq, who created those groups that had never existed before in the ME.
Israel supported (via USA) the Islamic terrorists against Bashar and the final plan is to destroy Syria,Hezboallah,Iran and Hamas.
Hezboallah declared his support to Bashar against those terrorists that created by Israel and Nasrallah sent his troops to fight the ISIS side by side with Syria.
[youtube]USXh-yDxtO0[/youtube]
SYRIA Hassan Nasrallah's best speech on Syria (engl. subtitles) - YouTube
[youtube]LLSYJx6qNNo[/youtube]
Syria war 2014-15 : Hezbollah vs The Goast of Darkness(ISIS) Untold Story 18+ (Hussy Investigates) - YouTube
1robin
Christian/Baptist
Islam did not do that. Islam only attacked the wrecked shadow of one half of a roman Empire that no longer existed. Rome killed Rome not Islam. Islam in it's finest day would not have even worried Rome when strong. The Galls, Vandals, Burgundians, Franks, and Huns destroyed Rome after Roman civil wars and politics had weekend it. Islam only cleaned up the last remaining pockets of an Empire that no longer existed. But even if hey had destroyed Rome it would not have been a good think. Rome provided uniformity, roads, medicine, educational systems, robust economies, and military protection. It is not a good thing to destroy the republic which have five generations of peace and replace it with despotism, oppression, and tyranny.
1robin
Christian/Baptist
Why do you need to point out Israel hates terrorists and those who deny them the right to exist. That should be obvious.
Come off it man. Get out of the conspiracy forums and take a look at reality. The Jews never have and never will control America. For pity sake it was Russia who supported then in 1948 not us. It was the West that actually fought against them.
You might have a little better idea of what occurs in reality instead of a in a conspiracy nuts mind if you got off u-tube and read a book every now and then. You to far beyond reality to even debate with.
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
1robin
Christian/Baptist
I expected you to expect me.Swear that i expected you to appear at this point.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Was Islam spread by the sword?
No.
For example:
Spread of Islam in Somalia: [6]
Nearly all people in Somalia are Sunni Muslims. For more than 1400 years, Islam made a great part of Somali society.[1]Practicing Islam reinforces distinctions that further set Somalis apart from their immediate neighbors, many of whom are either Christians or adherents of indigenous faiths. The early Muslims sought refuge from persecution in cities on the northern Somali coast.
History
Sunni-Sufi orders and Islamic scholars [1]
Religious orders always have played a significant role in Somali Islam. The rise of these orders (Tarika, "way" or "path") was connected with the development ofSufism, a mystical sect within Islam that began during the 9th and 10th centuries and reached its height during the 12th and 13th. In Somalia Sufi orders appeared in towns during the fifteenth century and rapidly became a revitalizing force. Followers of Sufism seek a closer personal relationship to God through special spiritual disciplines.
Escape from self is facilitated by poverty, seclusion, and other forms of self-denial. Members of Sufi orders are commonly called dervishes, from thePersian daraawish (singular darwish, "one who gave up worldly concerns to dedicate himself to the service of God and community"). Leaders of branches or congregations of these orders are given the Arabic title shaykh, a term usually reserved for those learned in Islam and rarely applied to ordinary wadaads (holy men).
Dervishes wandered from place to place teaching. They are best known for their ceremonies, called dhikr, in which states of visionary ecstasy are induced by group- chanting of religious texts and by rhythmic gestures, dancing, and deep breathing. The object is to free oneself from the body and to be lifted into the presence of God. Dervishes have been important as founders of agricultural religious communities called jamaat (singular jamaa).
A few of these were home to celibate men only, but usually the jamaat were inhabited by families. Most Somalis were nominal members of Sufi orders but few underwent the rigors of devotion to the religious life, even for a short time.
Three Sufi orders were prominent in Somalia. In order of their introduction into the country, they were the Qadiriyah, theIdrisiyah, and the Salihiyah. The Rifaiyah, an offshoot of the Qadiriyah, was represented mainly among Arabs resident in Mogadishu.
Islam in Somalia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I don't see any sword in spread of Islam in Somalia.
Regard
No.
For example:
Spread of Islam in Somalia: [6]
Nearly all people in Somalia are Sunni Muslims. For more than 1400 years, Islam made a great part of Somali society.[1]Practicing Islam reinforces distinctions that further set Somalis apart from their immediate neighbors, many of whom are either Christians or adherents of indigenous faiths. The early Muslims sought refuge from persecution in cities on the northern Somali coast.
History
Sunni-Sufi orders and Islamic scholars [1]
Religious orders always have played a significant role in Somali Islam. The rise of these orders (Tarika, "way" or "path") was connected with the development ofSufism, a mystical sect within Islam that began during the 9th and 10th centuries and reached its height during the 12th and 13th. In Somalia Sufi orders appeared in towns during the fifteenth century and rapidly became a revitalizing force. Followers of Sufism seek a closer personal relationship to God through special spiritual disciplines.
Escape from self is facilitated by poverty, seclusion, and other forms of self-denial. Members of Sufi orders are commonly called dervishes, from thePersian daraawish (singular darwish, "one who gave up worldly concerns to dedicate himself to the service of God and community"). Leaders of branches or congregations of these orders are given the Arabic title shaykh, a term usually reserved for those learned in Islam and rarely applied to ordinary wadaads (holy men).
Dervishes wandered from place to place teaching. They are best known for their ceremonies, called dhikr, in which states of visionary ecstasy are induced by group- chanting of religious texts and by rhythmic gestures, dancing, and deep breathing. The object is to free oneself from the body and to be lifted into the presence of God. Dervishes have been important as founders of agricultural religious communities called jamaat (singular jamaa).
A few of these were home to celibate men only, but usually the jamaat were inhabited by families. Most Somalis were nominal members of Sufi orders but few underwent the rigors of devotion to the religious life, even for a short time.
Three Sufi orders were prominent in Somalia. In order of their introduction into the country, they were the Qadiriyah, theIdrisiyah, and the Salihiyah. The Rifaiyah, an offshoot of the Qadiriyah, was represented mainly among Arabs resident in Mogadishu.
Islam in Somalia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I don't see any sword in spread of Islam in Somalia.
Regard
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Hahaha. I wouldn't have thought of using Somalia as an good example of ... anything... That is so incredibly rich... and desperate.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Sabour
Well-Known Member
False
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