Was Islam spread by the sword?

[paarsurrey]

Was Islam spread by the sword?

No.

For example:

Spread of Islam in Somalia:[1]

Nearly all people in Somalia are Sunni Muslims. For more than 1400 years, Islam made a great part of Somali society.[1]Practicing Islam reinforces distinctions that further set Somalis apart from their immediate neighbors, many of whom are eitherChristians or adherents of indigenous faiths. The early Muslims sought refuge from persecution in cities on the northern Somali coast.

For generations, Islam in Somalia followed the Ash’ariyah theology, Shafi’i jurisprudence, and Sufism, until recent decades when Salafism has made inroads.[2] Influence of Islamic religious leaders has varied by region, being greater in the north than among some groups in the settled regions of the south. Among nomads, the exigencies of pastoral life gave greater weight to the warrior's role, and religious leaders were expected to remain aloof from political matters.

The role of religious functionaries began to shrink in the 1950s and 1960s as some of their legal and educational powers and responsibilities were transferred to secular authorities.[3] The position of religious leaders changed substantially after the 1969 revolution and the introduction of scientific socialism. Siad Barre insisted that his version of socialism was compatible withQur'anic principles, and he condemned atheism. Religious leaders, however, were warned not to meddle in politics.

The new government instituted legal changes that some religious figures saw as contrary to Islamic precepts. The regime reacted sharply to criticism, executing some of the protesters. Subsequently, religious leaders seemed to accommodate themselves to the government.

Islam in Somalia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't see any sword in spread of Islam in Somalia.

Regard

 

[paarsurrey]

Well it would certainly be a biased concept if that is what I said, but the problem is I didn't did I. So now I will ask you to point out where I said that if we had a Byzantine account then that account would be reliable over that of the Islamic one? No. If we had a Byzantine account then we at least would have a more balanced narrative of the story which allows us to be more informed and able to build up a bigger picture around these events – I’d then leave it to historians to pick up the challenge of establishing which was the more likely (if they conflicted).

I never cease to be amazed at the sheer deception Moslems will evoke in order to defend their faith. Why do you never endingly and so un-ashamedly show such dishonesty and lies? The same goes for your ridiculous premise that because there are examples of Islam being spread peacefully automatically means you have provided definitive evidence that it has always been spread peacefully. These unethical traits make you look foolish whilst also clearly demonstrating that you are completely incapable of rebutting the point I had just made.

This is a debate forum so take on what I say and not what I didn’t say.

If there is no account from the Byzantine people; then it is more reasonable for one to accept the only view available.

So, you should accept it.

Regards

 

[Avi1001]

Hi Paar,

Did you see the movie, "Innocence of Mohammad" that someone posted a review to ? It is on Youtube. I didn't like it, but I would like to hear your views.

 

[icehorse]

I'm late to the thread, and I HAVE NOT read all 883 posts...

That said, paarsurrey, just for the sake of discussion, let's say that everything you said about Somolia is true (again, for the sake of discussion). That one case does NOT prove that Islam has NOT been spread by the sword. Even if Islam is only *sometimes* spread by the sword, we can still say that Islam was spread by the sword.

If you want to claim that "Islam is not ALWAYS spread by the sword", that's a completely different claim, and also an almost meaningless one.

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Friend Tom,

There are many people who came forward and provide their opinions and take actions and say it is backed up by Quraan and by the prophet's teaching. Taken out of context, we can make anything say anything.

Anyone doing something because of Islam has to provide his source and provide explanation backed up from the Quraan or the prophet's teaching to prove what he is doing on condition that this doesn't contradict other teachings too for Islam and Quraan are taken as a whole and not part of part. Islam is a way of life and something we can cherry pick to serve our biases.

I don't judge people, I judge actions for I don't know who would repent and I don't know who will sin. From what I know, what ISIS is doing is 100% not Islamic and the Quraan is 100 % against it.

If I were to form an opinion about ISIS I would say that it is formed by non muslims just to make Islam look bad. This happens all the time and it is we muslims who fuel up and help them in making Islam look bad by our responses. We have reached this point because of our lack of understanding about Islam.

For example, those Danemark cartoons about the prophet, many muslims did not agree on the reaction that was shown to these cartoons but no one covers that. Yusuf Estes and some people went to Danemark to have conversations about what happened. Was that covered by the media? Please watch this video


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_7YD0w3zms

And Kanye speaking with an innocent lamb
Everything we write here is from the Qur'an and the history of Islam
Alaslamho calling for fighting Christians, Jews and infidels
Each topic on the Forum have a 100 percent msakih
And Mohammed you say about Messenger
We tell him that the man he married 13
And his wives
One eight-year-old when he married her
And the second
She is the wife of his adopted son
The third is the Jewish girl murdered in Khyber
This is not bulaşların and is not charged
That fact
Why do we want to talk about
And what did the Danish painter
Is a graphic written in Muslim books
And his personal freedom
Full
Do you want to cancel the freedoms of Arabs also as you did in the country the Moslem
And I tell you
The actions of the Muslims in the northern Iraqi city of Mosul
Expelled and displaced and displaced more than 50,000 Iraqi Christian
Stealing akwalhm

The atrocities of Islam in that city
It's a humanitarian crime era

 

[paarsurrey]

I'm late to the thread, and I HAVE NOT read all 883 posts...

That said, paarsurrey, just for the sake of discussion, let's say that everything you said about Somolia is true (again, for the sake of discussion). That one case does NOT prove that Islam has NOT been spread by the sword. Even if Islam is only *sometimes* spread by the sword, we can still say that Islam was spread by the sword.

If you want to claim that "Islam is not ALWAYS spread by the sword", that's a completely different claim, and also an almost meaningless one.

I think your position is not reasonable. One should correctly paraphrase it, if one may, please.

Regards

 

[Sabour]

Wondering if Mahasn ever wrote a reply not attacking Islam in such manner. Providing false info and hitting here and there and not caring about one response. All you care about is attack attack attack.

And wondering why Mahasn is here and English language isn't that good. Is your English that bad?

I will answer you when you have good intentions.

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

The important point here that the Roman empire ended and expelled from the area, that was a great job done by the Muslims.

From the first pages of dialogue doesn't want to limit Muslim recognition that Islam was spread by the sword
Therefore, our friend said these words
And is
Here it seems the Muslim friend arrived our result

Result of Islam defeated
But how Islam won
With roses
And the word of God
He triumphed Islam with swords and intrigue
This confirms that Islam colonial idea
Like all ideas of colonialism in history
He said the Quran words
They plot the subtle and more insidious and crafty God
This verse of the Qur'an
They are given as guile to God
The verse in the Qur'an
الله خير الماكرين

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Wondering if Mahasn ever wrote a reply not attacking Islam in such manner. Providing false info and hitting here and there and not caring about one response. All you care about is attack attack attack.

And wondering why Mahasn is here and English language isn't that good. Is your English that bad?

I will answer you when you have good intentions.

I live on Earth
Mosul Iraqi city
In northern Iraq
Its history is Christianity
Graemhkikih against Christians
Displacement, murder and extort money, forcibly conversions also
Go to the NetBook and I hear these people news
I've heard two days ago died of starvation
The rest is not a
Battles of Mohammed is not a
You know of the Qur'an
Muhammad's wives know their numbers from the Qur'an
This is not a secret
Nymphs in paradise
No secrets
Permission
In attack
On Islam
Do you want to gag
World place free
No human infallibility

 

[Sabour]

Again, I would answer you when you have good intentions.

Salam

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Again, I would answer you when you have good intentions.

Salam

What do you mean by good intentions
Say that Muhammad married 13 for mercy
Is this true
Is it reasonable to accept this
And also
The Quran says and fought alihodwalnsari
Does he fight using artificial flowers
Or fight for kisses love phantom
Fighting is fighting
When you go to the Qur'an
And any hand and foot cut says opposite
To fight the Messenger
Do you think this speech in which mercy and peace
Well I say
Does the Qur'an speak of loving four lyrics
When one line definition of love
This is the truth of Islam
If you want love
Go to the Bible and you'll find a great definition to a professional love
And also where the Torah is what makes slumbering human words of love and the Psalms are the most beautiful words Daoud love humanity

 

[Sabour]

What do you mean by good intentions
Say that Muhammad married 13 for mercy
Is this true
Is it reasonable to accept this
And also
The Quran says and fought alihodwalnsari
Does he fight using artificial flowers
Or fight for kisses love phantom
Fighting is fighting
When you go to the Qur'an
And any hand and foot cut says opposite
To fight the Messenger
Do you think this speech in which mercy and peace
Well I say
Does the Qur'an speak of loving four lyrics
When one line definition of love
This is the truth of Islam
If you want love
Go to the Bible and you'll find a great definition to a professional love
And also where the Torah is what makes slumbering human words of love and the Psalms are the most beautiful words Daoud love humanity

And suddenly the English got better. Miracle

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

And suddenly the English got better. Miracle

This is not a miracle

I have learned by experience that use better interpretation
This happened two days ago

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

to --0ne-answer
Come discuss the published image is your signature
Man in front of the tank
A man carrying a stone
And the tank carrying materiel mtfhara
Here is mercy
Mercy of the driver of the tank
It is able to kill stone holder and travel over his body
But it does not do
Because he knows the rules of compassion
Grammar the clash also known as
In Mosul
An unarmed Christian
Without weapon
Have a car
Escapes
In another place between Kurdistan and Mosul
Tell him leave car
They possessed the/Islamic State
They search him
Stealing all his money
Dismount, walking miles
He and his family
A real novel heart of Mosul
That's what Islam with Christians in Mosul today

 

[Chev Chelios]

Well where I live ISIS are killing muslims.

I am certain they don't believe they are followers of true Islam even if they claim so.

This argument relies on people’s ignorance so that it can be used as a deceptive tool to tease out Islam’s clear role in motivating ISIS. It depends upon the ignorant observer naively viewing Islam as a cohesive unit so Moslems and their apologists are able to point out that because ISIS are killing Moslems this is clear evidence that ISIS and their actions are un-Islamic and self serving. But this party line conveniently fails to mention the ancient schism which caused the Shia- Sunni divide so that each sees the followers of the other as heretics, un-Islamic and basically NOT Moslems. You see, ISIS, is a Sunni outfit who are not targeting Moslems as you suggest but rather, are (crudely) selecting Shia and other Moslems that it does not see as adherents of the same faith – this explains why they are as indifferent to these ‘Moslems’ as they are to Jews, Christians and the rest.

It is this sectarian dispute which explains why the punishment meted out by ISIS to these ‘Moslems’ is the same as that mandated in the Koran which is to be administered to non Moslems. ISIS is killing Moslems because it simply doesn’t consider them as Moslem so the argument that they are targeting Moslems is a complete fallacy – they do not view it in this way. This is all very simple stuff, so it is quite incredulous that people would conveniently omit this internal divide to audaciously dress up the actions of ISIS in a way which expunges Islam from ISIS.

ISIS are not an enemy of Islam– they are an enemy of non Moslems and they are clearly motivated by Islam, offering up a deeply plausible interpretation of it. Indeed, when we see Shia Islam as the boss we find the same thing, a persecution of Sunni/non Shia Islam because it isn’t considered to be true Islam (think Hezbollah) so its adherents are not Moslem. Thus, if we simply remove these internal disputes within Islam we come to see that be it Sunni be it Shia ultimately the attitude to other religions (including those deemed heretics) share exactly the same overarching Islamic narrative of in-tolerance because they interpret the scripture as it is – non believers are infidels, Islam is superior and all must come under Islam’s banner. There is nothing that separates the actions of Sunni or Shia ‘fundamentalist’ in terms of their ideological motivations – Islam.

That excuse makers seize on this oppression by the Islamic group ISIS on ‘other’ Moslems and use it as confirmation that we are not seeing the true nature of Islam is a work of complete fiction and monumental myth making.

 

[Sabour]

This argument relies on people’s ignorance so that it can be used as a deceptive tool to tease out Islam’s clear role in motivating ISIS. It depends upon the ignorant observer naively viewing Islam as a cohesive unit so Moslems and their apologists are able to point out that because ISIS are killing Moslems this is clear evidence that ISIS and their actions are un-Islamic and self serving. But this party line conveniently fails to mention the ancient schism which caused the Shia- Sunni divide so that each sees the followers of the other as heretics, un-Islamic and basically NOT Moslems. You see, ISIS, is a Sunni outfit who are not targeting Moslems as you suggest but rather, are (crudely) selecting Shia and other Moslems that it does not see as adherents of the same faith – this explains why they are as indifferent to these ‘Moslems’ as they are to Jews, Christians and the rest.

It is this sectarian dispute which explains why the punishment meted out by ISIS to these ‘Moslems’ is the same as that mandated in the Koran which is to be administered to non Moslems. ISIS is killing Moslems because it simply doesn’t consider them as Moslem so the argument that they are targeting Moslems is a complete fallacy – they do not view it in this way. This is all very simple stuff, so it is quite incredulous that people would conveniently omit this internal divide to audaciously dress up the actions of ISIS in a way which expunges Islam from ISIS.

ISIS are not an enemy of Islam– they are an enemy of non Moslems and they are clearly motivated by Islam, offering up a deeply plausible interpretation of it. Indeed, when we see Shia Islam as the boss we find the same thing, a persecution of Sunni/non Shia Islam because it isn’t considered to be true Islam (think Hezbollah) so its adherents are not Moslem. Thus, if we simply remove these internal disputes within Islam we come to see that be it Sunni be it Shia ultimately the attitude to other religions (including those deemed heretics) share exactly the same overarching Islamic narrative of in-tolerance because they interpret the scripture as it is – non believers are infidels, Islam is superior and all must come under Islam’s banner. There is nothing that separates the Sunni or Shia ‘fundamentalist’ in terms of ideological motivations – Islam.

That excuse makers seize on this oppression by the Islamic group ISIS on ‘other’ Moslems and use it as confirmation that we are not seeing the true nature of Islam is a work of complete fiction and monumental myth making.

Muslims don't support ISIS. As a matter of fact Saudia Arabia gave Lebanon 1 B $ for the Lebanese army to fight ISIS.

Hezboollah reasons are political reasons. They have nothing to do with Islam. Like most of the fights you here in the name of Islam or for the sake of Islam. It isn't because of religion as they claim or because they see others must be killed as you claimed. It is because that is what suits them. It is because of political reasons.

Take it from one who is living in Lebanon

 

[paarsurrey]

Was Islam spread by the sword?

No.

For example:

Spread of Islam in Somalia:[2]

Nearly all people in Somalia are Sunni Muslims. For more than 1400 years, Islam made a great part of Somali society.[1]Practicing Islam reinforces distinctions that further set Somalis apart from their immediate neighbors, many of whom are either Christians or adherents of indigenous faiths. The early Muslims sought refuge from persecution in cities on the northern Somali coast.

History

Birth of Islam and Middle Ages[edit]

Islam was introduced to the northern Somali coast early on from the Arabian peninsula, shortly after the hijra. Zeila's two-mihrabMasjid al-Qiblatayn dates to the 7th century, and is the oldest mosque in the city.[4] In the late 800s, Al-Yaqubi wrote thatMuslims were living along the northern Somali seaboard.[5] He also mentioned that the Adal kingdom had its capital in the city,[5][6] suggesting that the Adal Sultanate with Zeila as its headquarters dates back to at least the 9th or 10th centuries.

According to I.M. Lewis, the polity was governed by local dynasties consisting of Somalized Arabs or Arabized Somalis, who also ruled over the similarly-established Sultanate of Mogadishu in the Benadir region to the south. Adal's history from this founding period forth would be characterized by a succession of battles with neighbouring Abyssinia.[6]

In 1332, the Zeila-based King of Adal was slain in a military campaign aimed at halting the Abyssinian Emperor Amda Seyon I's march toward the city.[7] When the last Sultan of Ifat, Sa'ad ad-Din II, was also killed by Emperor Dawit I in Zeila in 1410, his children escaped to Yemen, before later returning in 1415.[8] In the early 15th century, Adal's capital was moved further inland to the town of Dakkar, where Sabr ad-Din II, the eldest son of Sa'ad ad-Din II, established a new base after his return from Yemen.[9][10]

Adal's headquarters were again relocated the following century, this time to Harar. From this new capital, Adal organised an effective army led by Imam Ahmad ibn Ibrihim al-Ghazi (Ahmad "Gurey" or "Gran") that invaded the Abyssinian empire.[10] This 16th century campaign is historically known as the Conquest of Abyssinia(Futuh al-Habash). During the war, Imam Ahmad pioneered the use of cannons supplied by the Ottoman Empire, which he imported through Zeila and deployed against Abyssinian forces and their Portuguese allies led by Cristóvão da Gama.[11] Some scholars argue that this conflict proved, through their use on both sides, the value of firearms like the matchlock musket, cannons and the arquebus over traditional weapons.[12]

During the Age of the Ajuuraans, the sultanates and republics of Merca, Mogadishu, Barawa, Hobyo and their respective ports flourished and had a lucrative foreign commerce, with ships sailing to and coming from Arabia, India, Venetia,[13] Persia,Egypt, Portugal and as far away as China. Vasco da Gama, who passed by Mogadishu in the 15th century, noted that it was a large city with houses several storeys high and large palaces in its centre, in addition to many mosques with cylindricalminarets.[14]

The city of Mogadishu came to be known as the City of Islam,[15] and controlled the East African gold trade for several centuries.[16] In the 16th century, Duarte Barbosa noted that many ships from the Kingdom of Cambaya in modern-day India sailed to Mogadishu with cloth and spices, for which they in return received gold, wax and ivory.

Barbosa also highlighted the abundance of meat, wheat, barley, horses, and fruit on the coastal markets, which generated enormous wealth for the merchants.[17] Mogadishu was also the center of a thriving textile industry known as toob benadir, specialized for the markets in Egypt, among other places.[18]

Islam in Somalia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't see any sword in spread of Islam in Somalia.

Regard

 

[Chev Chelios]

Muslims don't support ISIS. As a matter of fact Saudia Arabia gave Lebanon 1 B $ for the Lebanese army to fight ISIS.

Hezboollah reasons are political reasons. They have nothing to do with Islam. Like most of the fights you here in the name of Islam or for the sake of Islam. It isn't because of religion as they claim or because they see others must be killed as you claimed. It is because that is what suits them. It is because of political reasons.

Take it from one who is living in Lebanon

No. Saudi Arabia's concern with ISIS is territorial not ideological and this Saudi concern emanates from its Monarchy - there are many Saudi's who support them. The Saudi head of state can see the threat ISIS represents to its borders but there are many Saudi groups funding ISIS. Indeed, Saudi Arabia itself was implicit in the creation of ISIS by its support of the anti-Shia militia in Syria and Iraq in order to wipe them out. It is only now that this militia has conglomerated to form a monster which is now fully self perpetuating and uncontrollable that the ruling elite of Saudi Arabia are now quite rightly in full on panic mode due to the impending threat ISIS represent to its land.

Now, I am well aware that many Moslems do not support ISIS but I am also aware many do however my point was that ISIS do represent Islamic ideals and there is simply no way of avoiding this. They are doing what the followers of Islam always do when freed from dictatorial governance or when it is the boss – wipe out non Moslems to create lands completely overshadowed by the faith. Hezbollah’s stated goal is to establish an Islamic state and because there is no separation of politics and faith in Islam we see that their political motives are intimately linked to their spiritual ones. Sorry but Hezbollah are most certainly motivated by Islam. I am glad you do not support them.

 

[Shad]

So it is unreliable if it is from Islamic Records and would only be reliable if it belongs to the Christian Records?!

What a concept of unbiased source of history you have described?!

Regards

The sources for the battle are unreliable due to the absurd numbers of forces Islamic sources claim the Romans had, up to 200,000 men. For one Byzantium could barely field 50,000 men during the almost decade long war against the Persians. Yet we are to belief that the Byzantium could muster 100,000 to 200,000 men on short notice against what was a border skirmish. The over the top embellishment damages the creditiblity of sources for this conflict.

 

[Chev Chelios]

Was Islam spread by the sword?

No.

For example:

Spread of Islam in Somalia:[2]

Nearly all people in Somalia are Sunni Muslims. For more than 1400 years, Islam made a great part of Somali society.[1]Practicing Islam reinforces distinctions that further set Somalis apart from their immediate neighbors, many of whom are either Christians or adherents of indigenous faiths. The early Muslims sought refuge from persecution in cities on the northern Somali coast.

History

Birth of Islam and Middle Ages[edit]

Islam was introduced to the northern Somali coast early on from the Arabian peninsula, shortly after the hijra. Zeila's two-mihrabMasjid al-Qiblatayn dates to the 7th century, and is the oldest mosque in the city.[4] In the late 800s, Al-Yaqubi wrote thatMuslims were living along the northern Somali seaboard.[5] He also mentioned that the Adal kingdom had its capital in the city,[5][6] suggesting that the Adal Sultanate with Zeila as its headquarters dates back to at least the 9th or 10th centuries.

According to I.M. Lewis, the polity was governed by local dynasties consisting of Somalized Arabs or Arabized Somalis, who also ruled over the similarly-established Sultanate of Mogadishu in the Benadir region to the south. Adal's history from this founding period forth would be characterized by a succession of battles with neighbouring Abyssinia.[6]

In 1332, the Zeila-based King of Adal was slain in a military campaign aimed at halting the Abyssinian Emperor Amda Seyon I's march toward the city.[7] When the last Sultan of Ifat, Sa'ad ad-Din II, was also killed by Emperor Dawit I in Zeila in 1410, his children escaped to Yemen, before later returning in 1415.[8] In the early 15th century, Adal's capital was moved further inland to the town of Dakkar, where Sabr ad-Din II, the eldest son of Sa'ad ad-Din II, established a new base after his return from Yemen.[9][10]

Adal's headquarters were again relocated the following century, this time to Harar. From this new capital, Adal organised an effective army led by Imam Ahmad ibn Ibrihim al-Ghazi (Ahmad "Gurey" or "Gran") that invaded the Abyssinian empire.[10] This 16th century campaign is historically known as the Conquest of Abyssinia(Futuh al-Habash). During the war, Imam Ahmad pioneered the use of cannons supplied by the Ottoman Empire, which he imported through Zeila and deployed against Abyssinian forces and their Portuguese allies led by Cristóvão da Gama.[11] Some scholars argue that this conflict proved, through their use on both sides, the value of firearms like the matchlock musket, cannons and the arquebus over traditional weapons.[12]

During the Age of the Ajuuraans, the sultanates and republics of Merca, Mogadishu, Barawa, Hobyo and their respective ports flourished and had a lucrative foreign commerce, with ships sailing to and coming from Arabia, India, Venetia,[13] Persia,Egypt, Portugal and as far away as China. Vasco da Gama, who passed by Mogadishu in the 15th century, noted that it was a large city with houses several storeys high and large palaces in its centre, in addition to many mosques with cylindricalminarets.[14]

The city of Mogadishu came to be known as the City of Islam,[15] and controlled the East African gold trade for several centuries.[16] In the 16th century, Duarte Barbosa noted that many ships from the Kingdom of Cambaya in modern-day India sailed to Mogadishu with cloth and spices, for which they in return received gold, wax and ivory.

Barbosa also highlighted the abundance of meat, wheat, barley, horses, and fruit on the coastal markets, which generated enormous wealth for the merchants.[17] Mogadishu was also the center of a thriving textile industry known as toob benadir, specialized for the markets in Egypt, among other places.[18]

Islam in Somalia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't see any sword in spread of Islam in Somalia.

Regard

This is deeply concerning and another example of an astonishing lie! To even dare try and frame Islam’s presence in Somalia as one of passivity all the while omitting the persecution of religious minorities throughout every level of its governance is truly Orwellian and more than a bit disgusting when we consider the slaughter that has been happening there. You seem to purposefully ignore numerous groups such as Al-Shabaab who are intentionally imposing their beliefs on others by carrying out wholesale conversions and or slaughter of non-Moslems.

I pointed out in comments earlier your lack of dignity and again we see this loud and clear - and I bet you consider yourself a 'moderate' Moslem! That Moslems so readily lie for their faith is becoming more and more troubling and is actually starting to support the idea of Taqiyya - an apparently Islamic precept that I have traditionally always thought of as ludicrous. Well I am coming to realise that this seemingly conspiracy notion may be the only thing that can explain these bare faced lies by so many Moslems when discussing their faith. Somalia is acknowledged as one of the worst offenders of religious freedom violations on the planet – that you’d frame such a land in this way shows how extreme your views actually are.