Was Islam spread by the sword?

[1robin]

Yes it certainly does have skeletons and not just in the past,giving credit for the defeat of our enemies to Christianity is a blinkered statement IMO.

I would think stopping Hitler and Stalin alone, both of which would have taken over virtually the entire world. Makes for and surpasses everything wrong done by Christianity in it's entire history. Not to even mention the charities, soup kitchens, dependency clinics, over seas medical care, public schools, literacy programs,
defending democracies, creating the entire field of abstract science. You would need a thousand 100 years wars, a hundred crusades plus a thousand witch trails before you even got anything worth countering with.

 

[England my lionheart]

If our species would learn from ancient mens mistakes, and stop the mythology right here and now, we could move forward at huge leaps and bounds. For the better.

As Neil Degrasse Tyson said, imagine how good it could be without fanaticism and fundamentalism.

Instead of living by ancient mens mistakes,absolutely

 

[Philomath]

Yes Islam was spread by the sword. Of course every Muslim who accepted Islam wasn't forced to become one but throughout Islam's history people have been forced to join it.

 

[England my lionheart]

I would think stopping Hitler and Stalin alone, both of which would have taken over virtually the entire world. Makes for and surpasses everything wrong done by Christianity in it's entire history. Not to even mention the charities, soup kitchens, dependency clinics, over seas medical care, public schools, literacy programs,
defending democracies, creating the entire field of abstract science. You would need a thousand 100 years wars, a hundred crusades plus a thousand witch trails before you even got anything worth countering with.

But was it Christianity or politics,although peas from the same pod politics wins out IMO,what about the Hindus and followers of other religions that took part,this is like "let us sing non nobis and te deum" from Henry the 5V but really its not.

We are derailing the thread,if you want to start a thread "was Christianity spread by the sword" ill contribute.

 

[1robin]

That has been a complaint of mine before I joined here.

Agree whole hearted.


They do have a lot of help though, they are on the front line of ebola right now.

I do not agree with their views on contraception but the reasons they are in some many poor places is benevolence and the fact the poor listen long before the successful do. I have been a councilor for years and have known them by the hundreds. The most miserable people are not those without, it is those that have tried it all and been left empty with not even any hope. A hungry man has a need, A hungry man has hope, A hungry man is open to answers. A burned out but successful man doesn't think anything will help because he has tried everything. That is why Christians go to poor places. Unfortunately feeding irresponsible poor people only seems to create more irresponsible poor people. Certain places in Africa have gone from a few million occasional in need of handouts to tens of millions that only liv eon handouts. My friend say dig them a well and find it full of trash next year, show them how to di, and find them full of soldiers next. I have no idea what the answer is but at least were trying.

What is your complain? That they are not helping under your world view but their own?

 

[Sabour]

Chev Chelios,

If that is how you see Islam than let me tell you that you have no idea what Islam is.

 

[Sabour]

Here's a couple of quotes from very prominent followers of Islam,"Israel will exist and continue to exist until Islam obliterates it just as its obliterated others before" Hasaan AL Banna (of loving memory to some),trt's the intro to the Hamas charter.

Saayid Qutb,i think his relations still hang out in Saudi:

... the Muslim community has long ago vanished from existence ... we can say that the Muslim community has been extinct for a few centuries, for this Muslim community does not denote the name of a land in which Islam resides, nor is it a people whose forefathers lived under the Islamic system at some earlier time. It is the name of a group of people whose manners, ideas and concepts, rules and regulations, values and criteria, are all derived from the Islamic source. The Muslim community with these characteristics vanished at the moment the laws of God became suspended on earth. [p.9]
Our whole environment, people's beliefs and ideas, habits and art, rules and laws - is Jahiliyyah, even to the extent that what we consider to be Islamic culture, Islamic sources, Islamic philosophy and Islamic thought are also constructs of Jahiliyyah!

Osama bin Laden was taught by Qutb but thought he didn't go far enough,to these guys this is true Islam

What are your comments on these quotes?

 

[England my lionheart]

What are your comments on these quotes?

If I was a follower of Islam i get where they are coming from,that is,the ultimate power for a Muslim is your Allah and living under Allahs laws and not the laws of Humans for Al Banna and Qutb this includes what you see in ISIS,unfortunately they are very influential in what we see today,Al Banna was of course the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood and Qutb a very prominent member,his book "milestones" is an eye opener to an outsider like me,some call this political Islam but as far as i'm concerned politics and religion are the same thing.

 

[YmirGF]

...some call this political Islam but as far as i'm concerned politics and religion are the same thing.

Islam, being the totalitarian way of life that it is, obviously extends itself into the political arena. It has always been a political animal.

 

[1robin]

But was it Christianity or politics,although peas from the same pod politics wins out IMO,what about the Hindus and followers of other religions that took part,this is like "let us sing non nobis and te deum" from Henry the 5V but really its not.

We are derailing the thread,if you want to start a thread "was Christianity spread by the sword" ill contribute.

Many others threw their hats in the ring but only France, USA, England, and a USA supplied Russia had enough power to do what was accomplished. I am too lazy to make a thread. Sorry. You seen America 2016?

 

[England my lionheart]

Islam, being the totalitarian way of life that it is, obviously extends itself into the political arena. It has always been a political animal.

And you don't even get to vote

 

[Sabour]

If I was a follower of Islam i get where they are coming from,that is,the ultimate power for a Muslim is your Allah and living under Allahs laws and not the laws of Humans for Al Banna and Qutb this includes what you see in ISIS,unfortunately they are very influential in what we see today,Al Banna was of course the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood and Qutb a very prominent member,his book "milestones" is an eye opener to an outsider like me,some call this political Islam but as far as i'm concerned politics and religion are the same thing.

Well in Islam in order for us to judge any action or any quote to be true or false we have to look about the evidence. Evidence should be either from the Quraan or from the life of the prophet.

In Islam we don't take by any saying if it is not 100 % supported from the two sources I mentioned no matter how well established that scholar is because hearts change and people may change and alter their minds and hearts.

As for the ones mentioned, I am only sure about ISIS as I am more familiar with their actions and what they are doing here in Lebanon but about the others I don't have enough knowledge about them so I can't comment.

But one thing I know for sure is that no one 100 % represents Islam except the prophets.

 

[England my lionheart]

Many others threw their hats in the ring but only France, USA, England, and a USA supplied Russia had enough power to do what was accomplished. I am too lazy to make a thread. Sorry. You seen America 2016?

Lazy bones huh,no I haven't

 

[1robin]

And you don't even get to vote

You sure do, as long as it Islam.

 

[1robin]

Lazy bones huh,no I haven't

In six years, no matter how hard I tried I could not figure Obama out. He did about everything wrong I could think of but every hat I put on him did not fit. Only when I researched his anticolionialist roots did everything fit. That movie was in part based on just such a study. You put anti-colonial/opportunist as his position then every action he takes adds up. He would not fit in an Islamic hat, a race baiter hat, not even just a dumb person hat. He was intelligent and idealistic but I just never could figure out how to explain shooting a few terrorists, sending the bust of Churchill back, not likening the US, not hate the US, he juts does not like the tradition US, he was not anti-Jewish but certainly was no friend and had little use for England or our other traditional allies. Only an anti-colonialist hat fit.

Anyway off the subject I guess but I recommend the movie.

 

[England my lionheart]

Well in Islam in order for us to judge any action or any quote to be true or false we have to look about the evidence. Evidence should be either from the Quraan or from the life of the prophet.

In Islam we don't take by any saying if it is not 100 % supported from the two sources I mentioned no matter how well established that scholar is because hearts change and people may change and alter their minds and hearts.

As for the ones mentioned, I am only sure about ISIS as I am more familiar with their actions and what they are doing here in Lebanon but about the others I don't have enough knowledge about them so I can't comment.

But one thing I know for sure is that no one 100 % represents Islam except the prophets.

As for Hassan Al Banna see Palestine,as for Qutb Al Qaeda,at least as part of the roots

 

[England my lionheart]

In six years, no matter how hard I tried I could not figure Obama out. He did about everything wrong I could think of but every hat I put on him did not fit. Only when I researched his anticolionialist roots did everything fit. That movie was in part based on just such a study. You put anti-colonial/opportunist as his position then every action he takes adds up. He would not fit in an Islamic hat, a race baiter hat, not even just a dumb person hat. He was intelligent and idealistic but I just never could figure out how to explain shooting a few terrorists, sending the bust of Churchill back, not likening the US, not hate the US, he juts does not like the tradition US, he was not anti-Jewish but certainly was no friend and had little use for England or our other traditional allies. Only an anti-colonialist hat fit.

Anyway off the subject I guess but I recommend the movie.

I'll check it out

 

[Sees]

Well in Islam in order for us to judge any action or any quote to be true or false we have to look about the evidence. Evidence should be either from the Quraan or from the life of the prophet.

In Islam we don't take by any saying if it is not 100 % supported from the two sources I mentioned no matter how well established that scholar is because hearts change and people may change and alter their minds and hearts.

As for the ones mentioned, I am only sure about ISIS as I am more familiar with their actions and what they are doing here in Lebanon but about the others I don't have enough knowledge about them so I can't comment.

But one thing I know for sure is that no one 100 % represents Islam except the prophets.

My friend, non-muslims are concerned about Islam and Muslim-majority populations...not The True Islam™

How does this or that ideology tend to manifest itself among the world? What are average/typical, best, and worse case scenarios and common benefits, harm, or threats amongst themselves and others.

Regardless of whether the aspects are true or false, exclusive and totalitarian nature at the core of Mid Eastern monotheistic religious traditions highlights them - their tendency to spawn dangerous nutties, groups, large regimes, states, etc. may never lessen. It's not subjective opinion...it's history and current news.

As far as Muslims and Islam specifically...it would be splendid if there were more Quranist, Ahmadhi, Sufi, etc. but real world isn't like the internet. Heck they may be persecuted or murdered depending where they live (and by who?).

True Islam is the concern for Muslims, non-believers just want a toothless, swordless Islam - no matter how True or Faithful.

 

[Sabour]

History is most of the times false and those who win write it as they want and media blows things out of proportion.

I am a follower of Islam and what I care about is the true Islam. I am not a follower of what others think of Islam. So the true Islam is what we (muslims) care about.

Most members in this forums are judging Islam based on what they hear or listen, I repeat they are judging Islam.

 

[Sees]

History is most of the times false and those who win write it as they want and media blows things out of proportion.

I am a follower of Islam and what I care about is the true Islam. I am not a follower of what others think of Islam. So the true Islam is what we (muslims) care about.

Most members in this forums are judging Islam based on what they hear or listen, I repeat they are judging Islam.

Every group with large numbers will be judged, the larger the more scrutiny and meticulous judgment. It's insanity to not consider or acknowledge the ways the group can or does effect you or your groups.

I doubt anybody is hateful or fearful concerning you, Smart_Guy, paarsurrey, Fear God, etc.