Was Islam spread by the sword?

[outhouse]

Do you think the koran has mythology in it???????

 

[outhouse]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waraka_ibn_Nawfal

Waraka and Khadija were also the first cousins twice removed of Muhammad

So he was his cousin as I stated

Waraka was a Nestorian priest

he was a priest as I stated


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nestorianism

Nestorius and his teachings were eventually condemned as heretical


He was a heretic as I stated


He also "wrote the New Testament in Arabic


he wrote Arabic bible as I stated


Waraka found a lost five-year-old boy wandering around Upper Mecca. This was Muhammad

Found a 5 year old boy wandering as I stated


As Muhammad grew in age, Waraka's knowledge of the scriptures increased.

Uh oh they studied together, just as I told you


Everything I said was truth and sourced with credible knowledge, all you do is refuse knowledge. You refuse to answer questions when asked.

WHAT HAVE YOU PROVIDED EXCEPT DENIAL????????????

 

[RAYYAN]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waraka_ibn_Nawfal

Waraka and Khadija were also the first cousins twice removed of Muhammad

So he was his cousin as I stated

Waraka was a Nestorian priest

he was a priest as I stated


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nestorianism

Nestorius and his teachings were eventually condemned as heretical


He was a heretic as I stated


He also "wrote the New Testament in Arabic


he wrote Arabic bible as I stated


Waraka found a lost five-year-old boy wandering around Upper Mecca. This was Muhammad

Found a 5 year old boy wandering as I stated


As Muhammad grew in age, Waraka's knowledge of the scriptures increased.

Uh oh they studied together, just as I told you


Everything I said was truth and sourced with credible knowledge, all you do is refuse knowledge. You refuse to answer questions when asked.

WHAT HAVE YOU PROVIDED EXCEPT DENIAL????????????

Thank you for the reference.

Let's get things straight here, in your previous post, you said He was the cousin of Mohammed. That is NOT correct and that is why I didn't know what you are talking about because your information was not accurate.

Yes, Waraka was the cousin of Khadija, and He was a Christian.

I am missing a reference about,
* meeting Mohammed as a boy. because saying "It is said" is not a reference as you know
* studying the bible together

Well I am sorry to tell you that your reference and Wikipedia, and Wikipedia's reference is Ibn Ishaq "Sira" which can not be trusted.

 

[outhouse]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waraka_ibn_Nawfal


Waraka and Khadija were also the first cousins twice removed of Muhammad

 

[outhouse]

Wikipedia's reference is Ibn Ishaq "Sira" which can not be trusted.

Says who?

1. ^ Muhammad ibn Saad, Tabaqat vol. 1. Translated by Haq, S. M. Ibn Sa'd's Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir, p. 54. Delhi: Kitab Bhavan.
2. Jump up ^ Encyclopedia of Islam, Online ed., Waraka b. Nawfal
3. Jump up ^ Muhammad ibn Ishaq. Sirat Rasul Allah. Translated by Guillaume, A. (1955). The Life of Muhammad, p. 107. Oxford: Oxford University Press.
4. Jump up ^ Bukhari 4:55:605.
5. Jump up ^ Muslim 1:301.
6. Jump up ^ Ibn Ishaq/Guillaume pp. 72-73. The qualification "It is said" is Ibn Ishaq's.
7. Jump up ^ Ibn Ishaq/Guillaume pp. 143-144.
8. Jump up ^ Ismail ibn Umar ibn Kathir. Al-Sira al-Nabawiyya. Translated by Le Gassick, T. (1998). The Life of the Prophet Muhammad, vol. 1 p. 357. Reading, U.K.: Garnet Publishing.
9. Jump up ^ Sprenger, A. (1851). The Life of Mohammad, from Original Sources, pp. 161-162. Allahabad: The Prebyterian Mission Press.
10. Jump up ^ Ibn Ishaq/Guillaume p. 107.
11. Jump up ^ Bukhari 1:1:3. See also Bukhari 4:55:605; Bukhari 9:87:111; Muslim 1:301.
12. Jump up ^Reading Islam.com What Really Happened Up There?
13. Jump up ^ Saheeh al-Jaami as-Sagheer, 6/1534, no. 7197
14. Jump up ^ Tirmidhi 4:8:2288.

 

[outhouse]

Do you think the koran has mythology in it???????

 

[RAYYAN]

Says who?

1. ^ Muhammad ibn Saad, Tabaqat vol. 1. Translated by Haq, S. M. Ibn Sa'd's Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir, p. 54. Delhi: Kitab Bhavan.
2. Jump up ^ Encyclopedia of Islam, Online ed., Waraka b. Nawfal
3. Jump up ^ Muhammad ibn Ishaq. Sirat Rasul Allah. Translated by Guillaume, A. (1955). The Life of Muhammad, p. 107. Oxford: Oxford University Press.
4. Jump up ^ Bukhari 4:55:605.
5. Jump up ^ Muslim 1:301.
6. Jump up ^ Ibn Ishaq/Guillaume pp. 72-73. The qualification "It is said" is Ibn Ishaq's.
7. Jump up ^ Ibn Ishaq/Guillaume pp. 143-144.
8. Jump up ^ Ismail ibn Umar ibn Kathir. Al-Sira al-Nabawiyya. Translated by Le Gassick, T. (1998). The Life of the Prophet Muhammad, vol. 1 p. 357. Reading, U.K.: Garnet Publishing.
9. Jump up ^ Sprenger, A. (1851). The Life of Mohammad, from Original Sources, pp. 161-162. Allahabad: The Prebyterian Mission Press.
10. Jump up ^ Ibn Ishaq/Guillaume p. 107.
11. Jump up ^ Bukhari 1:1:3. See also Bukhari 4:55:605; Bukhari 9:87:111; Muslim 1:301.
12. Jump up ^Reading Islam.com What Really Happened Up There?
13. Jump up ^ Saheeh al-Jaami as-Sagheer, 6/1534, no. 7197
14. Jump up ^ Tirmidhi 4:8:2288.

Says your reference you provided, All this list is a reference for different things but see the two points I mentioned, their reference is #6 which is Ibn Isaq.

Should I teach you how to find out this!

 

[RAYYAN]

Do you think the koran has mythology in it???????

I think/know/believe that the Quran contain events that really happened

 

[Shad]

1. That is not knowledge, it is an absence of knowledge

No it is based on evidence which contradicts Biblical accounts such as the cities listed as destroyed by the Hebrews were not destroyed within the Bible chronology, the evidence of emergence from an existing society in which the only major difference between the Hebrews and Canaanites was dietary evidence.

2. No authentic and credible account on that

Modern Syro-Palestinian archaeology has credible accounts

3. The Bible and Quran are very similar, no wonder because it is one God and one Message

No it is evidence of an existing tradition and borrowing of this tradition to formulate a new religion just as Judaism took the existing religious traditions to create a splinter religion which focused on two merged figures from it's Canaanite foundation.

 

[RAYYAN]

No it is based on evidence which contradicts Biblical accounts such as the cities listed as destroyed by the Hebrews were not destroyed within the Bible chronology, the evidence of emergence from an existing society in which the only major difference between the Hebrews and Canaanites was dietary evidence.



Modern Syro-Palestinian archaeology has credible accounts



No it is evidence of an existing tradition and borrowing of this tradition to formulate a new religion just as Judaism took the existing religious traditions to create a splinter religion which focused on two merged figures from it's Canaanite foundation.

That is fine. instead of talking about what you think and what I think, maybe you can present your evidences and discuss

 

[Shad]

That is fine. instead of talking about what you think and what I think, maybe you can present your evidences and discuss

Read any work by Kitchener, Finkelstein, Dever, Bietak or watch the lectures here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbbCsk7MUIGeFrKlS-snrKWTT-uPs7VNO Do take note that the archaeologists are in agreement along with various scholars that are not archaeologists

 

[RAYYAN]

Read any work by Kitchener, Finkelstein, Dever, Bietak or watch the lectures here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbbCsk7MUIGeFrKlS-snrKWTT-uPs7VNO Do take note that the archaeologists are in agreement along with various scholars that are not archaeologists

I am sorry, I can't really watch youtube vids.
and don't let others do the work for you, say what you wanted to say and support that with a reference. this is discussion forum not video exchange plat form.

 

[Shad]

I am sorry, I can't really watch youtube vids.

Not my problem you are choosing to ignore a conference at Caltech in which some of the most prominent figures in archaeology are addressing the topic in question. It is not some random Youtube video, it is a conference. You didn't even look at the link otherwise you would know this. So all you did was dismiss my link without justification.


You could easily look up work by the figures I mentioned. However since you seem unwilling and demand to be spoon fed knowledge you could find yourself I doubt anything I say will change your mind as you hold to an ideology you will never challenge

and don't let others do the work for you, say what you wanted to say and support that with a reference. this is discussion forum not video exchange plat form.

You asked for evidence. I provide lectures by figures which discuss evidence for and against The conference is my reference. Again not my problem you dismissed the reference without justification. I could easily produce your copout. Provide evidence for your claims without using scripture as this is not a Quran study group.....

 

[RAYYAN]

Not my problem you are choosing to ignore a conference at Caltech in which some of the most prominent figures in archaeology are addressing the topic in question. It is not some random Youtube video, it is a conference. You didn't even look at the link otherwise you would know this. So all you did was dismiss my link without justification.


You could easily look up work by the figures I mentioned. However since you seem unwilling and demand to be spoon fed knowledge you could find yourself I doubt anything I say will change your mind as you hold to an ideology you will never challenge



You asked for evidence. I provide lectures by figures which discuss evidence for and against The conference is my reference. Again not my problem you dismissed the reference without justification

That is not what I meant, I am at work now and I can't watch vids. after work, I am busy with kids and won't be able to watch it.

you watched the lecture, then give me the summary. and again, We don't take the word of the speaker on face value, He must have references, I need those if you know what I mean

 

[Shad]

That is not what I meant, I am at work now and I can't watch vids. after work, I am busy with kids and won't be able to watch it.

you watched the lecture, then give me the summary. and again, We don't take the word of the speaker on face value, He must have references, I need those if you know what I mean

I gave you a summary in the first rely to you. When you get home watch all 44 videos. Watch the videos when the children are sleeping, at friends homes, whenever. You time limitation is not my problem. Either you make time to watch the videos or you do not.

 

[RAYYAN]

I gave you a summary in the first rely to you. When you get home watch all 44 videos. Watch the videos when the children are sleeping, at friends homes, whenever. You time limitation is not my problem. Either you make time to watch the videos or you do not.

Sorry, telling people watch 44 videos is not really practical and it is not certainly a reference to anything. debating with you is not my priority dude. you cowardly dismissed this debate by making others do the work for you.

Good day Sir.

 

[Shad]

Sorry, telling people watch 44 videos is not really practical and it is not certainly a reference to anything. debating with you is not my priority dude. you cowardly dismissed this debate by making others do the work for you.

Gaining knowledge is never easy. I provided references in two forms. Your copout shows you are unwilling, uninterested or lazy. None of which is my problem nor justification for dismissing my view. I didn't dismiss anything within the debate. I dismissed your unjustified copouts in which you refuse to do the leg work as easy as watching videos. Not my problem you can not click a video and listen. Are you going to whine that reading takes too long next?

"Stuff is hard wahhhh" Welcome to higher education which requires putting in time and effort.

 

[RAYYAN]

Gaining knowledge is never easy. I provided references in two forms. Your copout shows you are unwilling, uninterested or lazy. None of which is my problem nor justification for dismissing my view. I didn't dismiss anything within the debate. I dismissed your unjustified copouts in which you refuse to do the leg work as easy as watching videos. Not my problem you can not click a video and listen. Are you going to whine that reading takes too long next?

"Stuff is hard wahhhh" Welcome to higher education which requires putting in time and effort.

Telling someone to watch 44 vids is not realistic.
and have not watched them that why you can't really debate about it LOL

anyways, Thank you for the childish moments I had with you.

 

[Shad]

Telling someone to watch 44 vids is not realistic.

No it isn't since students of archaeology are required to do much more as is anyone attempting to provide evidence of their views. You could of easily looked up the works of the 4 archaeologists I mentioned but didn't.

and have not watched them that why you can't really debate about it LOL

I watched each video years ago. I can debate it. It is your unwillingness to do a little work, if watching a video can be considered work, that is the issue.

anyways, Thank you for the childish moments I had with you.

Thanks for showing how lazy you are and how you hide behind copouts when you are required to put in effort as easily as listening and reading. It is amusing to watch someone openly admit to being too lazy to even read opposing views when their ideology is challenged. The evidence is within the references, all you need to do is click and watch. What is more amusing is that you have time at work to be on the forums but no time for videos or reading a book you can find online.

 

[RAYYAN]

No it isn't since students of archaeology are required to do much more as is anyone attempting to provide evidence of their views. You could of easily looked up the works of the 4 archaeologists I mentioned but didn't.



I watched each video years ago. I can debate it. It is your unwillingness to do a little work, if watching a video can be considered work, that is the issue.



Thanks for showing how lazy you are and how you hide behind copouts when you are required to put in effort as easily as listening and reading. It is amusing to watch someone openly admit to being too lazy to even read opposing views when their ideology is challenged. The evidence is within the references, all you need to do is click and watch. What is more amusing is that you have time at work to be on the forums but no time for videos or reading a book you can find online.

Ok thank you