Was it fair to kick Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden?

[gnostic]

But with regard to the consequences, they both knew them...

They knew of the consequences, I agreed, but I don't think either of them fully understood the consequences.

Adam was not even around when Satan spoke to Eve.

True. But it could be said that Eve wasn't there when God forbid Adam from eating from that Tree. I'd assume that Adam relayed "what God said" to Eve. She got warning from second-hand. Have you ever play a game where one person whisper into the ear of the person standing there, going down the line. The person on the other end of the line will have different message to the original message.

 

[Pegg]

They knew of the consequences, I agreed, but I don't think either of them fully understood the consequences.

who of us runs into something we dont fully understand?

Basically, if they didnt understand then they should not have jumped headlong into it...they should have trusted that God was trying to protect them from harm by warning them in the first place.

True. But it could be said that Eve wasn't there when God forbid Adam from eating from that Tree. I'd assume that Adam relayed "what God said" to Eve. She got warning from second-hand. Have you ever play a game where one person whisper into the ear of the person standing there, going down the line. The person on the other end of the line will have different message to the original message.

I see what you are saying, but it implies that Adam gave Eve the wrong message which is not what the account shows. She was able to relay the message accurately and therefore it can't be assumed that she got a dodgy instruction.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

True. But it could be said that Eve wasn't there when God forbid Adam from eating from that Tree.

Actually Adam was not literally the first human on the earth as the Bible says. Sometimes the Bible teaches certain things by using parables and symbolic stories.(as you can see many cases in the Bible)
Adam lived about 6000 years ago, and science proved that long before Adam human lived on earth. I already posted more things related to Adam in another forum:

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...5942-god-may-punish-but-eternity-hell-11.html

 

[Beta]

Friend AllanV ,
I entirely agree with you !
I am just more given to simple expressions and understanding ,being rather looooong in the tooth and not familiar with more modern language.
I am not sure that 'passing knowledge 'down' to people' is the right way to go about it since biblical teaching favours the 'foundational' approach, learning from the bottom up - you know...'train up a child....' .
Perhaps we are in a situation that needs to be tackled from both sides if we are to be stopped from total disaster Mat.24v22. :run:

 

[Beta]

Actually Adam was not literally the first human on the earth as the Bible says. Sometimes the Bible teaches certain things by using parables and symbolic stories.(as you can see many cases in the Bible)
Adam lived about 6000 years ago, and science proved that long before Adam human lived on earth. I already posted more things related to Adam in another forum:

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...5942-god-may-punish-but-eternity-hell-11.html

Not wishing to be disrespectful to your beliefs but it can not help to confuse Christian-Bible-Beliefs with other faiths. Could we please stick to our own ?

 

[Beta]

Pegg , I would say that the temptation was not entirely physical or spiritual only but a mixture of both.
Scripture does not exactly say that satan's influence actually appealed to Eve, but it does say the tree became desirable (to her) to make one wise and the fruit good to eat and she did - that makes it a combination of both.
It also says that Adam was with her and must have been witness to this exchange between Eve and the serpent, though he was not deceived. Like you say he would not have wanted to be parted from her and so he also ate - again a physical participation to a false spiritual concept (a lie).

 

[Nadia Faiazova]

Adam and Eve knew that God forbade them to eat from the tree. But they listened to serpent (who, in fact didn't do anything good to them, in order that they could say that serpent is right, and God is a liar). God told them if they do not obey Him, they will be punished. Why? Because people were created to be in subjection to God ( Jeremiah 10:23- I well know, O Jehovah, that to earthling man his way does not belong. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step) God has a perfect measure of justice, that's why Adam and Eve were punished. It's the same as if when we have traffic rules, that are given for our safety, and we brake them.So who is responsible then for our injury? The policemen who gave these rules, or we, on our part?

 

[paolops181]

So, was it actually fair for them to be punished?

Yes because of disobedience. God already warned them from the start
"And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” -Gen.2:16-17
But because of the serpent, Eve was deceived then Adam.

 

[Beta]

You give a perfectly sound example NF but should we remember that Adam and Eve did not have example or scripture to assist in their choice. It is so much easier for us today with scripture , example and hindsight to make judgements re a situation.
And even with all that help man is still unable to obey God as we read in Lk.6v46.
So what excuse do we have today ???

 

[Pegg]

Despite being forbidden to do so by God, Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit. God gave them that one rule and they broke it, though they werer under no compulsion to listen to what the Serpent told them. So it their expulsion from the garden was fair.

yes.

and it also highlighted the new circumstance of mankind...their alienation from God.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

I'm not sure if this has been addressed before. Didn't spot anything like this while I was skimming through.

If Adam and Eve had no knowledge of the concepts of good and evil, they had no way to know that disobeying God and eating the forbidden fruit was actually wrong. They didn't obtain that knowledge until after their transgression. So, was it actually fair for them to be punished?

First of all fair is not a Biblical position unless it refers to weather or women.

As for being expelled from the Garden of Eden is was not a punishment but a consequence. God explained it in Genesis 3:22 (KJV), "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever; Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden..."

 

[jtartar]

I'm not sure if this has been addressed before. Didn't spot anything like this while I was skimming through.

If Adam and Eve had no knowledge of the concepts of good and evil, they had no way to know that disobeying God and eating the forbidden fruit was actually wrong. They didn't obtain that knowledge until after their transgression. So, was it actually fair for them to be punished?

poseur,
Adam and Eve did have a knowledge of good and evil!!
In Theology there is a term called, Concursus, which meant that Adam and Eve were protected from evil, by obeying God. They knew that if they disobeyed God it was evil. They decided they wanted to obey Satan, instead of God, so they no longer were fit to remain in the Garden of Eden. They knew that God had said that if they eat from the Tree they would surely Die, Gen 2:17. Satan told Eve that She POSITIVELY would not die, Gen 3:4.
This is what happened!!!
God created everything good for Adam and Eve to enjoy, and all God required of them was to keep not eat of the TREE OF kNOWLEDGE of GOOD AND BAD.
This tree symbolized the only way that Adam and Eve could show God that they appreciated all that God had done for them.
Adam had told Eve what God had told him. Eve looked at the tree and saw that it was good to look at so she took some of the fruit and ate. Then she gave some to Adam, and he ate some, Gen 3:6.
Eve was deceived by what Satan had said, but Adam was NOT deceived!! 1Tim 2:14. Because they rebelled against God, they became flawed, they had a defect, that meant they started to die. When they had children that defect was transferred to their offspring, and the defect was passed on to all of mankind, so we all die, Rom 5:12, Deut 32:4,5.
How could God allow them to stay in the Garden of Eden, when they rebelled against Him and made Satan their God???
God then turned the world over to Satan, to give him and mankind a certain period of time to find out that man cannot rule himself, because man was never meant to rule without God, Jere 10:23. Jesus and The Apostle Paul, both said that Satan is the ruler of this world, John 12:31, 14:30,16:11, 2Cor 4:3,4. The Apostle said the same, 1John 5:19, Rev 12:9, Luke 4:5-8.
How can anyone believe that God is the ruler of the world when it is in such chaos?? A term called Pan-satanism, actually means that this world is the expression of the personality of it's ruler, Satan. How true that is!!!
God only gave mankind a certain period of time and then God has promised that He is going to send His son to remove all who do not want to obey God and then set up a paradise earth, 2Pet 3:7, Matt 25:31-36, 2Thes 1:6-9, Luke 23:43, Rev 21:3,4.
According to Bible chronology Jesus became the King og God's Kingdom in 1914, Rev 12:12. Jesus is ruling over the earth from heaven for a short time then he will bring on Armageddon, Rev 16:16, Acts 3:19-21, Ps 110:1, Eph 1:9,10, 1Cor 15:25.
The time for mankind is fast running out, and all must make up their minds whether they want to live or die, Deut 30:19,20, Eph 4:4-6.

 

[Thief]

Most of this thread appears to operate on the assumption that Adam and Eve are the first of all humans and death did not yet exit.

Really?

Adam and Eve believed themselves immortal?

Really?

No other humans on the Earth?

Really?

Or perhaps the participants here are trying to fix a broken puzzle.

 

[mario]

God had to give Adam and Eve a choice. Without free will to choose, Adam and Eve would have been mere puppets. True love always requires choice. God wanted Adam and Eve to choose to love and trust Him. The only way to give this choice would have been to command something that was not allowed. Since God had planted in the garden all the different trees from which we now get fruit, the test was not too difficult. Adam and Eve had plenty to eat and a large variety of fruits from which to choose, and could have chosen to believe God. They were only commanded not to eat from one tree out of the many.

 

[Thief]

Most of this thread appears to operate on the assumption that Adam and Eve are the first of all humans and death did not yet exist.

Really?

Adam and Eve believed themselves immortal?

Really?

No other humans on the Earth?

Really?

Or perhaps the participants here are trying to fix a broken puzzle.

I just hate typing errors...don't you?


But really.....
The tree of knowledge was not really a test.
Gaining the knowledge between good and evil....bears resemblance to heaven...

'They have become as we are.'

The intention of Man's creation was at hand.

'Let us make Man in our image.'

Getting 'kicked out' of the garden was not a consequence of disobedience.
The alteration between Adam and the rest of the species had been complete.

The 'garden' was no longer needed.

 

[Crown College ofthe Bible]

I'm not sure if this has been addressed before. Didn't spot anything like this while I was skimming through.

If Adam and Eve had no knowledge of the concepts of good and evil, they had no way to know that disobeying God and eating the forbidden fruit was actually wrong. They didn't obtain that knowledge until after their transgression. So, was it actually fair for them to be punished?

God created Adam and Eve with a free choice; a free choice to obey or disobey the Lord by eating the fruit. They did know that it was wrong. Genesis 2:16, 17 says

And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.



They knew it was wrong because God had said it. They were deceived by the devil to eat of the fruit. They disobeyed God's direct command to not eat of the tree. Yes, the Lord kicked them out of the garden for their disobedience.

 

[diosangpastol]

God required the angels to be tested, to see if they would obey Him. And some fell; others were faithful and so entered into heaven. Adam and Eve were not in Heaven. They knew that God existed, but they did not see him in the Beatific Vision, nor were they united with Him in the fullness of love that is found in Heaven through the Beatific Vision. They needed to leave the Garden for Heaven. So God tested them, to see if they would obey. Since the fall of the angels had already occurred, God permitted Satan to tempt them, just as Satan, the first to fall, tempted the other angels by his bad example.

Adam and Eve fell, but then God chose to save them and their descendents by becoming a man.

Why wouldn't God cast the fallen angels into hell, why in paradise?

but I don't know why God made one decision, instead of another.

 

[Thief]

God created Adam and Eve with a free choice; a free choice to obey or disobey the Lord by eating the fruit. They did know that it was wrong. Genesis 2:16, 17 says

And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.



They knew it was wrong because God had said it. They were deceived by the devil to eat of the fruit. They disobeyed God's direct command to not eat of the tree. Yes, the Lord kicked them out of the garden for their disobedience.

If your highlighted quote is correct...then God lied.

And are you not assuming that death was unknown?
And also assuming Adam to be the first of all men?

 

[Crown College ofthe Bible]

If your highlighted quote is correct...then God lied.

And are you not assuming that death was unknown?
And also assuming Adam to be the first of all men?

God did not lie. The interpretation here is that from the moment Adam and Eve directly disobeyed God, they began to die physically. Remember that Adam lived till he was 930 years old. Death was not known until they sinned. Romans 5:12 says, Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.

 

[Thief]

God did not lie. The interpretation here is that from the moment Adam and Eve directly disobeyed God, they began to die physically. Remember that Adam lived till he was 930 years old. Death was not known until they sinned. Romans 5:12 says, Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.

If Genesis is true ....it stands of it's own merit.....
or maybe Moses lied.

I happen to believe Genesis.
Day Six...Man as a species....
go forth be fruitful....no law...no names...no restrictions...
dominate all things....(including each other)....

Day Seven...God rests...no more will be created.

Chapter Two is not a story of creation.
It is a report of manipulation.

Adam was a chosen son of God.
That he lived so long is testimony to ideal living conditions.
The garden was an isolated experiment.

Man needed an alteration.
He got it.

Having received....the garden was no longer needed.
Adam and Eve would then be...on their own.