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Was Jesus a Heretic
- Thread starter Fool
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shmogie
Well-Known Member
Judaism was founded as a collective faith, for Israel, the people. God interacted with the people through the priests of the Temple. Christś teachings were about an individual´s relationship with other individuals, and an individual´s relationship to God.
Christianity isn´t a collective religion, I and all other believers are a denomination of one. Christ gave a simple way to identify a Christian, or a group of Christians, by their fruit, but it always ultimately on an individual basis. Anyone can call themselves a Christian, but the rule still applies.
So, how would Christ feel about ¨todayś Christianity´? He knows his own, his flock, and he is quite pleased with them, we can know his flock, by their fruit.
The others, collectively,´todayś Christianity´, aren´t Christians, they are poseurs, in a world of them.
shmogie
Well-Known Member
I agree, at death, they physically cease to exist, and they are no longer a living soul. Nevertheless, the essence of them exists to God
shmogie
Well-Known Member
Nope, you I and every believer is a denomination of one. If one keeps the simple teachings given by Christ, and the Apostles are followed, the light yoke, you are in the right denomination. In the judgement you won stand as a JW or whatever, you will stand just as you, and you will be judged by your relation with Christ as the only door to the Father.
there may be 8 billion people but truth is singular. a law doesn't discriminate in order to be lawful.
shmogie
Well-Known Member
I am not sure of your point. Truth is singular, ¨I am the way, the TRUTH and the life ¨
shmogie
Well-Known Member
Well, of course he did exist.
Truth is singular from the absolute perspective of God, if God exists, and absolute Natural Nature of our existence if God does not exist. but from the human perspective interpreting ancient scriptures resulting in many divisions of religions and sects, including hundreds if not thousands of Christian Churches who do not agree. From the human perspective no.
I believe in God, and I consider it a foolish egocentric notion to believe that Truth exists any where else but with God alone.
Trackdayguy
Speed doesn't kill, it's hitting the wall
I think that Jesus would have the same response to the 20th century Church as he did the religious leaders of his day. Little has changed. What we learn from this is that religion resists change at all costs. I guess that's why people are leaving by the droves.
shmogie
Well-Known Member
True, Christ was God.
Richard Carrier says he didn't exist.
TheBannerofHomuraAkemi
Active Member
I think Jesus would Condemn the entire American Christian Church. In response to not liking their religion. They will kill him again.
As my favorite rapper said.
"Imagine the Word of God without religious groupies
Imagine a savior born in a Mexican hooptie
Persecuted single mother in a modern manger
You'd crucify him again like a ****in' stranger"
I believe he was the Messiah, spiritually Son of God, but not God incarnate.
We are still dealing with the human perspective of thousands of different churches, sects, and many religions each making different claims and beliefs. By the evidence neither of us can claim to know the Truth.
Highly organized random.
shmogie
Well-Known Member
I understand your position, probably Arian. There are problems with this belief for me, but it is appealing.
If Christ, as you say, the Messiah and Son of God, say's HE is the truth, then if you know him, as HE says you can, then you can know the truth.
shmogie
Well-Known Member
I haven';t a clue who Richard Carrier is. Whoever he is, he is at odds with tens of thousands of scholars, non believers as well as believers, who say Christ certainly did exist. Non Biblical sources like Josephus, say he existed.
For someone who didn't exist, he certainly did quite a bit, through 12 pretty much ignorant followers who must have invented him.
Than why do so many people cite the Bible and Jesus Christ and totally disagree?
shmogie
Well-Known Member
Most agree on the basic fundamentals. Salvation by faith alone, the Father-Son-Holy Spirit, the resurrection, The Divine inspiration of the Bible, good works, living a Godly life as far as possible, redemption from sin, the loving nature of God, and through him the individual inter relating with love, etc. Denominations major in minors, and there are some truly heretical beliefs, obvious from the Bible. This was foretold and is unsurprising.
I don´t let it bother me. I practice primitive Christianity, that is, what is found in the pages of the NT, nothing more.
Still problematic, because you practice what you rational choose to believe based on how you interpret the scriptures, and so does the millions over the millennia who believe differently.
shmogie
Well-Known Member
Christians believe in the same fundamentals, that is the point. You say you believe in Christ, and God, but what does that mean without some form of revealed foundation ? Yo used the term Messiah, but that comes from scripture, which you doubt, so why use it ? You are responsible for yourself and what you believe, not what others believe. When Christ said love God and love your neighbor, how many interpretations can you come up with for that ?
Or when he said salvation is by faith ? Or when he identified a good life following God ? It seems you are creating obstacles you can´t overcome, by choice. Actually, the obstacles aren´t there. Perhaps you are confusing following a religion with following God, not the same at all