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Was Jesus Original?

Adriel

Adriel

Member
jayhawker, Dont question my knowledge of the bible. I have not always been an atheist, I was once a baptized member of the christian church. i lived and breathed christianity for nearly 20 years. my entire community was christian. I am atheist not by my ignorance to the bible, but by my refusal to be ignorant to the facts of the world.

that having been said, thank you for the source, I will study up on this.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Jayhawker Soule said:
We know what he's immersed in. Thankfully, he is an atheist not by his ignorance to the bible, but by his refusal to be ignorant to the facts of the world, such as the virginity of Isis. (I wonder if Osiris knew.)
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haha - I doubt it.
 
Adriel

Adriel

Member
It was full immersion. In a river "made by god himself" if that helps you out in your witty sarcasm. And since when is mythology facts of the world? but whatever, have your fun.
 
logician

logician

Well-Known Member
"There are virgin birth myths in antiquity, but the Virgin Birth of Jesus is not a myth."

Wow, do you have DNA evidence to back this up?
 
logician

logician

Well-Known Member
I don't believe there was a historical Jesus, certainly the teachings of the NT are not original, all existed in preexistent philosophies or religions.
 
Copernicus

Copernicus

Industrial Strength Linguist
Jayhawker Soule said:
In a survey of "twenty leading Egyptologists" by Dr. W. Ward Gasque, a Christian scholar, found that all who responded recognised "that the image of the baby Horus and Isis has influenced the Christian iconography of Madonna and Child" but that there were no other similarities, eg no evidence that Horus was born of a virgin, had twelve followers, etc. [source]
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I have seen this kind of attempt to "debunk" these pagan-Christian comparisons before. The point is not that there are exact parallels between Jesus and Horus, but that myths tend to get borrowed and modified over time. So one would expect to find discrepancies between the Horus myth and the Jesus myth. After all, the claim is one of "influence", not direct descent. Resurrection of a god-man had been a recurrent theme in the Middle East for centuries before Christ, as had stories of god-men born of virgin mothers. These were natural elements that one would expect to crop up in a new myth about a god-man, because they lent credibility in the eyes of converts in those times. To say that Horus, Krishna, Mithras, and other god-men had no influence on the Christian story seems quite incredible, given all the common elements. Any scholar can find dissimilarities, but there are dissimilarities among all the myths with those common elements.
 
Just_me_Mike

Just_me_Mike

Well-Known Member
Copernicus said:
I have seen this kind of attempt to "debunk" these pagan-Christian comparisons before. The point is not that there are exact parallels between Jesus and Horus, but that myths tend to get borrowed and modified over time. So one would expect to find discrepancies between the Horus myth and the Jesus myth. After all, the claim is one of "influence", not direct descent. Resurrection of a god-man had been a recurrent theme in the Middle East for centuries before Christ, as had stories of god-men born of virgin mothers. These were natural elements that one would expect to crop up in a new myth about a god-man, because they lent credibility in the eyes of converts in those times. To say that Horus, Krishna, Mithras, and other god-men had no influence on the Christian story seems quite incredible, given all the common elements. Any scholar can find dissimilarities, but there are dissimilarities among all the myths with those common elements.
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The polar opposite of this topic is the idea that God is real and that Jesus is real and that all the other myths were around because everyone knew of said God and of the Jesus to come. It stands to reason the right God-Man had just not come yet, so everyone was trying to be the foretold Jesus.
 
Jayhawker Soule

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Copernicus said:
I have seen this kind of attempt to "debunk" these pagan-Christian comparisons before./QUOTE]Its your bunk, not mine. Fools who prattle about a virgin-born Horus walking on water should either cite credible sources or shut up. Speaking of which, have you ever read any scholarship on Mithras? I have ...
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Willamena

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
Copernicus said:
I have seen this kind of attempt to "debunk" these pagan-Christian comparisons before. The point is not that there are exact parallels between Jesus and Horus, but that myths tend to get borrowed and modified over time. So one would expect to find discrepancies between the Horus myth and the Jesus myth. After all, the claim is one of "influence", not direct descent. Resurrection of a god-man had been a recurrent theme in the Middle East for centuries before Christ, as had stories of god-men born of virgin mothers. These were natural elements that one would expect to crop up in a new myth about a god-man, because they lent credibility in the eyes of converts in those times. To say that Horus, Krishna, Mithras, and other god-men had no influence on the Christian story seems quite incredible, given all the common elements. Any scholar can find dissimilarities, but there are dissimilarities among all the myths with those common elements.
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It's not comparisons between Pagan and Christian images that is debunked here, but the idea that one is "stolen" from the other (i.e. that the Christian image is based on the Egyptian image). From that same Wikipedia page:

Historian Will Durant wrote that "Early Christians sometimes worshipped before the statues of Isis suckling the infant Horus, seeing in them another form of the ancient and noble myth by which woman (i.e., the female principle), creating all things, becomes at last the Mother of God."
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(Bolding mine.)
 
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Adriel

Adriel

Member
Tom Harpur, an author, journalist, Anglican priest, and theologian, studied the works of three authors specialized in ancient Egyptian religion: Godfrey Higgins (1771-1834), Gerald Massey (1828-1907) and Alvin Boyd Kuhn (1880-1963). Harpur incorporated some of their findings into his book "Pagan Christ." 1 He argued that all of the essential ideas of both Judaism and Christianity came primarily from Egyptian religion.

Harpur writes, in his book "Pagan Christ:"

"[Author Gerald] Massey discovered nearly two hundred instances of immediate correspondence between the mythical Egyptian material and the allegedly historical Christian writings about Jesus. Horus indeed was the archetypal Pagan Christ."
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I'll leave this quote for you jayhawker but if you want more, which you undoubtedly will, try google.
 
Jayhawker Soule

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
By the way, did he get around to citing credible sources demonstrating the belief that Horus was born of a Virgin, or shall we simply judge him by his cowardly attempt to shift the burden of proof. Personally, I think we should give him a bit more time.
 
painted wolf

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
I'm really curious where the op got it's info on Horus...
Horus never died and came back... that was Osiris.

Isis was never a virgin... she's a fertility goddess for a good reason.

and so on.

wa:do
 
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