joshuapecci
New Member
Anyone experiencing anything similar to Jesus with today's psychological constructs will be sent to the funny farm.
I would know.
I would know.
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Was Jesus Psychotic?
- Thread starter Fool
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Ponder This
Well-Known Member
Quite so. Does anyone read the stories and come away with a "this is normal" assessment? I think not. He's going to need treatment. It's obvious. Although, I don't think the system catches every potential psychotic. I also think the psychologist might be a bit surprised if his patient did turn water into wine.
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
Yoga has nothing to do with the Lord Jesus of Nazareth [in Israel].
Yoga (/ˈjoʊɡə/;[1] Sanskrit, योग Listen) is a group of physical,mental, and spiritual practices or disciplines which originated in ancient India.
Yoga - Wikipedia
Anyways, do you know someone who is psychotic who can make the blind see again?
No one not right in the head could make a blind at birth see again. So the Lord Jesus Christ isn't psychotic.
John 9 New International Version (NIV)
As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”
“Neither this man nor his parents sinned,” said Jesus, “but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him. As long as it is day, we must do the works of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work. While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”
After saying this, he spit on the ground, made some mud with the saliva, and put it on the man’s eyes. “Go,” he told him, “wash in the Pool of Siloam” (this word means “Sent”). So the man went and washed, and came home seeing.
His neighbors and those who had formerly seen him begging asked, “Isn’t this the same man who used to sit and beg?” Some claimed that he was.
Others said, “No, he only looks like him.”
But he himself insisted, “I am the man.”
“How then were your eyes opened?” they asked.
He replied, “The man they call Jesus made some mud and put it on my eyes. He told me to go to Siloam and wash. So I went and washed, and then I could see.”
“Where is this man?” they asked him.
“I don’t know,” he said.
They brought to the Pharisees the man who had been blind. Now the day on which Jesus had made the mud and opened the man’s eyes was a Sabbath. Therefore the Pharisees also asked him how he had received his sight. “He put mud on my eyes,” the man replied, “and I washed, and now I see.”
Some of the Pharisees said, “This man is not from God, for he does not keep the Sabbath.”
But others asked, “How can a sinner perform such signs?” So they were divided.
Then they turned again to the blind man, “What have you to say about him? It was your eyes he opened.”
The man replied, “He is a prophet.”
They still did not believe that he had been blind and had received his sight until they sent for the man’s parents. “Is this your son?” they asked. “Is this the one you say was born blind? How is it that now he can see?”
“We know he is our son,” the parents answered, “and we know he was born blind. But how he can see now, or who opened his eyes, we don’t know. Ask him. He is of age; he will speak for himself.” His parents said this because they were afraid of the Jewish leaders, who already had decided that anyone who acknowledged that Jesus was the Messiah would be put out of the synagogue. That was why his parents said, “He is of age; ask him.”
A second time they summoned the man who had been blind. “Give glory to God by telling the truth,” they said. “We know this man is a sinner.”
He replied, “Whether he is a sinner or not, I don’t know. One thing I do know. I was blind but now I see!”
Then they asked him, “What did he do to you? How did he open your eyes?”
He answered, “I have told you already and you did not listen. Why do you want to hear it again? Do you want to become his disciples too?”
Then they hurled insults at him and said, “You are this fellow’s disciple! We are disciples of Moses! We know that God spoke to Moses, but as for this fellow, we don’t even know where he comes from.”
The man answered, “Now that is remarkable! You don’t know where he comes from, yet he opened my eyes. We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly person who does his will. Nobody has ever heard of opening the eyes of a man born blind. If this man were not from God, he could do nothing.”
To this they replied, “You were steeped in sin at birth; how dare you lecture us!” And they threw him out.
Jesus heard that they had thrown him out, and when he found him, he said, “Do you believe in the Son of Man?”
“Who is he, sir?” the man asked. “Tell me so that I may believe in him.”
Jesus said, “You have now seen him; in fact, he is the one speaking with you.”
Then the man said, “Lord, I believe,” and he worshiped him.
Jesus said, “For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind.”
Some Pharisees who were with him heard him say this and asked, “What? Are we blind too?”
Jesus said, “If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains
jesus wasn't unique. jesus even made the claim that others could do what he did. who do you think the kings of the east are from rev 16:12? they come from the same land as abraham. jesus mentions abraham as so does john the baptist. abraham = a - brahma
from etymonline
yoga (n.) 1820, from Hindi yoga, from Sanskrit yoga-s, literally "union, yoking" (with the Supreme Spirit), from PIE root *yeug- "to join." Related: Yogic.
yoke (v.) Old English geocian "to yoke, join together," from yoke (n.). Related: Yoked; yoking.
1 Corinthians 6:17 But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit.
“Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke(cross) upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke(cross) is easy and my burden is light.”
For my yoke(cross) is easy and my burden is light.”
I and the Father are ONE(union)
again from etymonline
union (n.) early 15c., "action of joining one thing to another," also "agreement, accord," also "state of matrimony," from Anglo-French unioun, Old French union (12c.), from Late Latin unionem (nominative unio) "oneness, unity, a uniting," also in Latin meaning "a single pearl or onion," from unus "one," from PIE root *oi-no- "one, unique.
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DavidFirth
Well-Known Member
Jesus is anything but normal.
You either believe what He said or you do not. You either believe He rose from the dead or you do not.
As for me and my family, we will serve the Lord.
You either believe what He said or you do not. You either believe He rose from the dead or you do not.
As for me and my family, we will serve the Lord.
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
Yoga came from India
Besides yoga, three major religions came from those texts - Hinduism, Jainism and Buddhism. Around 200-400AD, a sage called Patanjali composed the Yoga Sutras. His "eight limbs" of yoga still inform practice today and discuss posture, breathing, meditation and correct living.
While Jesus Christ came from God, born in Bethlehem, Israel as a Jew, under the law of Moses.
Distance from Israel to India is 4,541 kilometers away.
Please study your geography.
Attempting to connect Jesus to yoga would make one really go psychotic.
No psychotic could ever heal a man stricken with leprosy.
Luke 5:12-16 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
Once, when he was in one of the cities, there was a man covered with leprosy.
When he saw Jesus, he bowed with his face to the ground and begged him, “Lord, if you choose, you can make me clean.” Then Jesus stretched out his hand, touched him, and said, “I do choose. Be made clean.” Immediately the leprosy left him. And he ordered him to tell no one. “Go,” he said, “and show yourself to the priest, and, as Moses commanded, make an offering for your cleansing, for a testimony to them.” But now more than ever the word about Jesus spread abroad; many crowds would gather to hear him and to be cured of their diseases. But he would withdraw to deserted places and pray.
Yoga came from India
Besides yoga, three major religions came from those texts - Hinduism, Jainism and Buddhism. Around 200-400AD, a sage called Patanjali composed the Yoga Sutras. His "eight limbs" of yoga still inform practice today and discuss posture, breathing, meditation and correct living.
While Jesus Christ came from God, born in Bethlehem, Israel as a Jew, under the law of Moses.
Distance from Israel to India is 4,541 kilometers away.
Please study your geography.
Attempting to connect Jesus to yoga would make one really go psychotic.
View attachment 17942
No psychotic could ever heal a man stricken with leprosy.
Luke 5:12-16 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
Once, when he was in one of the cities, there was a man covered with leprosy.
When he saw Jesus, he bowed with his face to the ground and begged him, “Lord, if you choose, you can make me clean.” Then Jesus stretched out his hand, touched him, and said, “I do choose. Be made clean.” Immediately the leprosy left him. And he ordered him to tell no one. “Go,” he said, “and show yourself to the priest, and, as Moses commanded, make an offering for your cleansing, for a testimony to them.” But now more than ever the word about Jesus spread abroad; many crowds would gather to hear him and to be cured of their diseases. But he would withdraw to deserted places and pray.
isaac meditated gen 24:63
jesus told the pharisees that they should meditate Matthew 23:13. you know the kingdom that comes from within self; wherein Jesus said you would find christ. introspection
abraham came from the east and sent most of his children to the east country east.
study the spice silk road. you'll find that one culture influenced another long before judaism became an established religion.
india influenced most all of asia and asia minor; thus all the churches of revelation are located in asia minor.
Maurya Empire - Wikipedia
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Kelly of the Phoenix
Well-Known Member
We can label characters, though, which Jesus is, even if based on a real person.
What is stopping it?
So everyone else in the bible, including Pharaoh's priests and a few sorcerers and witches here and there are all showing they were sent by God because they could do cool stuff?
They are usually the ones who think they can be done, for thinking outside the box is both genius and insanity.
That's true. It's also true that "abnormality" can be more normal than we think.
You'd think Jesus would have something better to do, like save the world, rather than engage in silly parlor tricks at a party.
I think your post ignores that we were talking about Jesus "never harming anyone". There was clear harm done to many. Still, without Jesus, the pigs wouldn't have gone off the cliff or whatever. He drove them to death without the owner's permission.
He thinks he can just wander onto people's property and destroy their stuff, apparently.
He expected a fruit tree to have fruit in non-fruit season. That is irrational.
Do most people guilty of assault hallucinate? What does seeing things have to do with committing harm?
So, he chose to injure people of his own free will. Got it.
I can't wait for Christianity to realize this attitude and get rid of the gift shops, bookstores, and various other blasphemous capitalist ventures in his name.
He says to pray in private in front of THRONGS. He says to keep our religion secret or God won't reward us while doing lots of things PUBLICLY. What he says and what he does are two different things.
There were apparently enough vague innuendos real or assumed to get the attention of the Romans.
That's bull. The Romans needed no pretense for they were the ones in charge. If the Romans were scared of the Jewish clergy they wouldn't later have burned the Temple to the ground, right? Pilate was such a jerk that an empire that can easily lose no sleep while making forests of crucifixes and salting entire cities so they'd never grow back in their lifetimes thought he was mean and banished him into exile. Why do you think, when Paul was in legal trouble, he touted his Roman citizenship? It'd be the ONLY way he could have a "prayer" of getting any kind of civil rights because the Romans didn't care about anyone else.
Do you know the psychotic can make themselves believe they're blind when they're not?
Psychosomatic disorders: When illness really is all in the mind
The problem is that if Jesus is the only one in the bible who was sinless (and he most certainly wasn't), then how do any other miracle workers do their business in the bible, including the non-Jewish ones?
It would appear, by your statement (although good in intent) that you don't understand exactly what happened when he threw out the moneychangers.
God had no problem with the selling of items in as much as people had to buy turtle doves, lambs etc for the sacrifice. It was more of the location that was the problem. The location was where the people of the nations (Gentiles) were supposed to have come and have an encounter for God and thus was an impediment for the encounter... so it was more about location (and attitude of heart) that was the issue. Not that there are gift shops and bookstores which are not blasphemous in and of itself.
You could have a thriving grocery store in the city and it still be blasphemous. (heart)
And I believe God is in favor of capitalism (biblical)... as long as it is with a loving heart. Socialism will never work.
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Ponder This
Well-Known Member
We can label characters, though, which Jesus is, even if based on a real person.
What is stopping it?
So everyone else in the bible, including Pharaoh's priests and a few sorcerers and witches here and there are all showing they were sent by God because they could do cool stuff?
They are usually the ones who think they can be done, for thinking outside the box is both genius and insanity.
That's true. It's also true that "abnormality" can be more normal than we think.
You'd think Jesus would have something better to do, like save the world, rather than engage in silly parlor tricks at a party.
I think your post ignores that we were talking about Jesus "never harming anyone". There was clear harm done to many. Still, without Jesus, the pigs wouldn't have gone off the cliff or whatever. He drove them to death without the owner's permission.
He thinks he can just wander onto people's property and destroy their stuff, apparently.
He expected a fruit tree to have fruit in non-fruit season. That is irrational.
Do most people guilty of assault hallucinate? What does seeing things have to do with committing harm?
So, he chose to injure people of his own free will. Got it.
I can't wait for Christianity to realize this attitude and get rid of the gift shops, bookstores, and various other blasphemous capitalist ventures in his name.
He says to pray in private in front of THRONGS. He says to keep our religion secret or God won't reward us while doing lots of things PUBLICLY. What he says and what he does are two different things.
There were apparently enough vague innuendos real or assumed to get the attention of the Romans.
That's bull. The Romans needed no pretense for they were the ones in charge. If the Romans were scared of the Jewish clergy they wouldn't later have burned the Temple to the ground, right? Pilate was such a jerk that an empire that can easily lose no sleep while making forests of crucifixes and salting entire cities so they'd never grow back in their lifetimes thought he was mean and banished him into exile. Why do you think, when Paul was in legal trouble, he touted his Roman citizenship? It'd be the ONLY way he could have a "prayer" of getting any kind of civil rights because the Romans didn't care about anyone else.
Do you know the psychotic can make themselves believe they're blind when they're not?
Psychosomatic disorders: When illness really is all in the mind
The problem is that if Jesus is the only one in the bible who was sinless (and he most certainly wasn't), then how do any other miracle workers do their business in the bible, including the non-Jewish ones?
You raise interesting and good points. I think you miss the context of the question of psychosis (criminal acts are not necessarily psychotic ones), but I was clearly wrong when I said "never harming anyone".
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
With something like a psychotic disorder, we cannot. At best, all we have is the Bible, which is less than an eyewitness account. When Jesus exercised the demon, we may assume it was a psychotic episode, it may have been the sort of ploy often utilized by shamans, or it may have just been made up entirely.
Ultimately, the effort is futile and cannot stand as an ethically accepted diagnosis.
Kelly of the Phoenix
Well-Known Member
It's not like I'm billing Medicare with his diagnosis, though. It's like analyzing Voldemort's character. Sure, it's ultimately useless, but don't mental health professionals take tests using fictional scenarios? It's not like everyone in my nursing NCLEX exam was real or anything....
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
isaac meditated gen 24:63
jesus told the pharisees that they should meditate Matthew 23:13. you know the kingdom that comes from within self; wherein Jesus said you would find christ. introspection
abraham came from the east and sent most of his children to the east country east.
study the spice silk road. you'll find that one culture influenced another long before judaism became an established religion.
india influenced most all of asia and asia minor; thus all the churches of revelation are located in asia minor.
Maurya Empire - Wikipedia
I meditate [think deeply or carefully about (something)] but I don't do Yoga. I pray to God in spirit and worship Jesus name but I don't do Yoga.
This is Yoga.
This is praying
They different from each other. Anyways, people who are psychotic do not perform miracles. People who are psychotic are basically not right in the head.
The Lord Jesus however made paralyzed men, walk and that is because God performed miracles through him.
Matthew 9:1-8 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
And after getting into a boat he crossed the sea and came to his own town.
And just then some people were carrying a paralyzed man lying on a bed. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven.” Then some of the scribes said to themselves, “This man is blaspheming.” But Jesus, perceiving their thoughts, said, “Why do you think evil in your hearts? For which is easier, to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Stand up and walk’? But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins”—he then said to the paralytic—“Stand up, take your bed and go to your home.” And he stood up and went to his home. When the crowds saw it, they were filled with awe, and they glorified God, who had given such authority to human beings.
I meditate [think deeply or carefully about (something)] but I don't do Yoga. I pray to God in spirit and worship Jesus name but I don't do Yoga.
This is Yoga.
View attachment 17946
This is praying
They different from each other. Anyways, people who are psychotic do not perform miracles. People who are psychotic are basically not right in the head.
View attachment 17947
The Lord Jesus however made paralyzed men, walk and that is because God performed miracles through him.
Matthew 9:1-8 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
And after getting into a boat he crossed the sea and came to his own town.
And just then some people were carrying a paralyzed man lying on a bed. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven.” Then some of the scribes said to themselves, “This man is blaspheming.” But Jesus, perceiving their thoughts, said, “Why do you think evil in your hearts? For which is easier, to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Stand up and walk’? But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins”—he then said to the paralytic—“Stand up, take your bed and go to your home.” And he stood up and went to his home. When the crowds saw it, they were filled with awe, and they glorified God, who had given such authority to human beings.
View attachment 17948
there are different types of yoga. meditation is one of them. there are a couple of forms: dhyana an samadhi
christianity is not unique.
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Fictional and hypothetical situations are one thing, but within psychology it is considered unethical to psychoanalyze fictional and historic characters. If they aren't your client, you are not privileged to psychoanalyze them.
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
Assumptions and presumptions. If Israel was heavily influenced by ancient India then it would have been obvious and readily observable - in their language and even in their names. But I have redirect - your topic was about - Was Jesus psychotic?
Psychotic people do not perform miracles because they are busy being psychos. And a danger to themselves and others.
The Lord Jesus on the other hand performed miracles from God.
Mark 5:21-43 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
When Jesus had crossed again in the boat to the other side, a great crowd gathered around him; and he was by the sea. Then one of the leaders of the synagogue named Jairus came and, when he saw him, fell at his feet and begged him repeatedly, “My little daughter is at the point of death. Come and lay your hands on her, so that she may be made well, and live.” So he went with him.
And a large crowd followed him and pressed in on him. Now there was a woman who had been suffering from hemorrhages for twelve years. She had endured much under many physicians, and had spent all that she had; and she was no better, but rather grew worse. She had heard about Jesus, and came up behind him in the crowd and touched his cloak, for she said, “If I but touch his clothes, I will be made well.” Immediately her hemorrhage stopped; and she felt in her body that she was healed of her disease. Immediately aware that power had gone forth from him, Jesus turned about in the crowd and said, “Who touched my clothes?” And his disciples said to him, “You see the crowd pressing in on you; how can you say, ‘Who touched me?’” He looked all around to see who had done it. But the woman, knowing what had happened to her, came in fear and trembling, fell down before him, and told him the whole truth. He said to her, “Daughter, your faith has made you well; go in peace, and be healed of your disease.”
While he was still speaking, some people came from the leader’s house to say, “Your daughter is dead. Why trouble the teacher any further?” But overhearing what they said, Jesus said to the leader of the synagogue, “Do not fear, only believe.” He allowed no one to follow him except Peter, James, and John, the brother of James. When they came to the house of the leader of the synagogue, he saw a commotion, people weeping and wailing loudly. When he had entered, he said to them, “Why do you make a commotion and weep? The child is not dead but sleeping.” And they laughed at him. Then he put them all outside, and took the child’s father and mother and those who were with him, and went in where the child was. He took her by the hand and said to her, “Talitha cum,” which means, “Little girl, get up!” And immediately the girl got up and began to walk about (she was twelve years of age). At this they were overcome with amazement. He strictly ordered them that no one should know this, and told them to give her something to eat.
Assumptions and presumptions. If Israel was heavily influenced by ancient India then it would have been obvious and readily observable - in their language and even in their names. But I have redirect - your topic was about - Was Jesus psychotic?
Psychotic people do not perform miracles because they are busy being psychos. And a danger to themselves and others.
View attachment 17977
The Lord Jesus on the other hand performed miracles from God.
Mark 5:21-43 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
When Jesus had crossed again in the boat to the other side, a great crowd gathered around him; and he was by the sea. Then one of the leaders of the synagogue named Jairus came and, when he saw him, fell at his feet and begged him repeatedly, “My little daughter is at the point of death. Come and lay your hands on her, so that she may be made well, and live.” So he went with him.
And a large crowd followed him and pressed in on him. Now there was a woman who had been suffering from hemorrhages for twelve years. She had endured much under many physicians, and had spent all that she had; and she was no better, but rather grew worse. She had heard about Jesus, and came up behind him in the crowd and touched his cloak, for she said, “If I but touch his clothes, I will be made well.” Immediately her hemorrhage stopped; and she felt in her body that she was healed of her disease. Immediately aware that power had gone forth from him, Jesus turned about in the crowd and said, “Who touched my clothes?” And his disciples said to him, “You see the crowd pressing in on you; how can you say, ‘Who touched me?’” He looked all around to see who had done it. But the woman, knowing what had happened to her, came in fear and trembling, fell down before him, and told him the whole truth. He said to her, “Daughter, your faith has made you well; go in peace, and be healed of your disease.”
While he was still speaking, some people came from the leader’s house to say, “Your daughter is dead. Why trouble the teacher any further?” But overhearing what they said, Jesus said to the leader of the synagogue, “Do not fear, only believe.” He allowed no one to follow him except Peter, James, and John, the brother of James. When they came to the house of the leader of the synagogue, he saw a commotion, people weeping and wailing loudly. When he had entered, he said to them, “Why do you make a commotion and weep? The child is not dead but sleeping.” And they laughed at him. Then he put them all outside, and took the child’s father and mother and those who were with him, and went in where the child was. He took her by the hand and said to her, “Talitha cum,” which means, “Little girl, get up!” And immediately the girl got up and began to walk about (she was twelve years of age). At this they were overcome with amazement. He strictly ordered them that no one should know this, and told them to give her something to eat.
abraham = brahma
sarai = sarasvatti
hagar = ghaggar
brahma, sarasvatti, and ghaggar are all archetypes. brahma's half sister and consort was sarasvatti, ghaggar was also his wife but of no blood relation.
These things are being taken figuratively: The women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar.
History of the Jews in India - Wikipedia
arthra
Baha'i
The problem I see with diagnosing people as "mentally ill" over a millennia is that we frankly don't have enough supporting evidence as there were no psychiatrists around at the time that could offer a consultation or make anything close to a definitive model of diagnosis. The Bible or the Gospels while they have some historical references are not accurate recordings or offer anything close to substantive case work recordings.
In terms of schizophrenia being applied say to Jesus... there's a problem. Schizophrenics are not very organized... They lack social strengths.. Jesus led a band of disciples over a three year period if we are to accept what the Gospels suggest.. I would doubt that a schizophrenic could provide sufficient stability to lead anyone.
In terms of schizophrenia being applied say to Jesus... there's a problem. Schizophrenics are not very organized... They lack social strengths.. Jesus led a band of disciples over a three year period if we are to accept what the Gospels suggest.. I would doubt that a schizophrenic could provide sufficient stability to lead anyone.