fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
Because it was a sin to enter a place of worship if you were a *******. Since Jesus's parents were not married, that meant that entering into a place of worship was a sin.
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Was Jesus Really Crucified
- Thread starter SuperNova66
- Start date
Green Kepi
Active Member
You need to read just a little bit closer...Joseph married Mary before Jesus was born...thus making him legit. Look at Matthew 1:24...he married her before Jesus was born...so Jesus was NOT a '******* child'....
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
Doesn't matter. It was at the moment of conception that mattered. Plus, as you stated, Joseph wasn't the father of Mary. Either way, Jesus was born in sin. And he was a ******* child. It doesn't matter if Joseph and Mary were married before Jesus was born, it was at the time of conception that mattered.
Green Kepi
Active Member
Not according to Jewish Law...but...I guess that doesn't matter to you. Your mind is 'set'....
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
Yes, according to Jewish law.
Green Kepi
Active Member
Oh well...I might as well be 'blowing smoke in the wind'...your title says it all...'Agnostic Theist'. Is it possible to be an agnostic and a theist? How in the heck can one have a wide range of beliefs in gods and also not be able to or wish to claim to know for sure whether those gods definitely exist?
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
Even if we dismiss Jesus being a ******* child, he still committed a sin by acting out in anger in the Temple. His actions there would have constituted a sin. Plus, the Bible tells us that he was human, and thus, sinful. More so, if we believe in the idea of the original sin, he was still born into sin then.
As for being an agnostic theist, here is a link that explains it very well: Agnostic theism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and more specifically for me: Fideism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Green Kepi
Active Member
Again...I don't think so. Why? Because anger is not a sin...its when it turns to uncontrollable anger then one may sin. Jesus rid the temple of the sellers and exchangers that were using the temple for other purposes besides worshiping God. Besides...God had already moved out of the Holy of Holy's because of what the Jews and the priests had become.
No, I do not believe in that doctrine of 'original sin'. You are correct, if babies were born into sin, then He was sinful at birth. Babies have committed no sin until that time when they can understand and realize right from wrong...which then would be sin....
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
It is nonsense to propose that Jewish law trumps in any way, the actions of God, the birth and crucifixion or life and teachings of Jesus.
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
The second is pure conjecture, which I doubt you could really prove. As far as I remember, the Bible never states such. As for the sellers and exchangers in the temple, they were doing work that was needed. Jesus acted in anger, and disgraced the house of God
Why was Jesus baptized by John?
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
Was not Jewish law created by God?
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
I doubt it very much, I seem to remember Moses had a lot to do with it.
In any event Jewish law is regularly reinterpreted by each new generation. A concept Christians have difficulty coming to terms with.
Green Kepi
Active Member
To receive the Holy Spirit....
Muffled
Jesus in me
So far I have viewed the introductions. Both men appear to have a high degree of intelligence. It appears that Rukni has an advantage in having the Holy Spirit evidenced by the fact that He is able to perform healings.
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fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
Moses was suppose to have received it from God.
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
Can you show that is the reason? The truth is, baptism was not used for that reason until later on.
And again, we are told that Jesus was human. That in the first place leads us to believe that he could have possibly sinned. We are told that he did not honor his mother by rejecting his immediate family. He disobeyed various laws which were considered sinful. There is little reason to believe he was sinless. And the baptism itself shines negative light on the idea even.
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
Jesus cousin John was not alone in Jesus baptism, God was also present. and made his approval known.
Why this had to be so is not stated, however Jesus set himself as an example many times. And following his Baptism, Baptism became a Christian sacrament when the Holy Spirit enters us.
Prior to Jesus Baptism, it was a Jewish ceremony that was not universal.
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Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
So the Jews believe.
However it does not stop them reinterpreting it. so they must believe that there is room for manoeuvre when it comes to making it fit with changes in civilisation.
It seems God gave more an outline than a final draft.
Rainbow Mage
Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
Yeah and somebody needs to tell Zakir that the Quran doesn't say Jesus wasn't crucified either. It says in Surah VI The Table Spread that Allah made Jesus taste death and then raised him to himself.
Green Kepi
Active Member
Sure...I believe I can. Jesus was both human and divine. Human side from Mary...divine side from the Holy Spirit. When He came to earth as a baby, He emptied Himself of all divine power and knowledge (that's why He had to grow in body and mind). As I'd said before, He didn't have the human DNA tendency to sin...that comes from the father...not mother.
When Jesus was baptized...the trinity was now working together again...before they weren't. Now Jesus could baptize with the Spirit. Now...from this time on...He began to perform His miracles. Now...He had full knowledge of who He was and what His ministry was from this point on.
But...I guess you do not believe and throw Hebrews 4:15 out the window...since it says He was tempted as we are but was "without sin". And...Jesus was also by actions with his earthly family showing that He was not constrained by His human family and His ultimately loyalties were not to His earthly parents...but, to God....
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