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Was Muhammad a good man?

What is your opinion on Muhammad?

  • He was a great man and those who insult him must be punished!

    Votes: 60 27.9%
  • He was a great man, but people are free to insult him

    Votes: 47 21.9%
  • He was not a good man, but we should respect him because I believe in respecting other religions

    Votes: 23 10.7%
  • He was a terrible man and we should condemn his awful actions!

    Votes: 85 39.5%

  • Total voters
    215

Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
I have little inclination to learn more about any of these religions.
:eek: YOU HERETIC! Die witch DIE!
Just kidding :D

Yes I know that in the past Islam had some great accomplishments. Right now though it's full of ******** who shoot little girls in the head for going to school. I know that's not everybody everywhere, but you have to admit that's pretty bad PR.

If it's any consolation, African Christians torturing and murdering children for "witchcraft" is equally bad PR for christianity, and seller violence is terrible PR for judaism.

All religions have had this issue but Jews no longer stone people and Christians do longer go on Crusades. The issue is that not all religions have progressed and moved on past their negative issues. Almost all religions have modernized except for Islam. Islam just seems to be lagging behind while other nations who are of other faiths are progressing.
 

1robin

Christian/Baptist
:eek: YOU HERETIC! Die witch DIE!
Just kidding :D



All religions have had this issue but Jews no longer stone people and Christians do longer go on Crusades. The issue is that not all religions have progressed and moved on past their negative issues. Almost all religions have modernized except for Islam. Islam just seems to be lagging behind while other nations who are of other faiths are progressing.
Your posts have been pretty much on the mark as this one is but I wanted to adjust one thing. The Crusaders were mostly petty noblemen who were losing their butt economically and though they could acquire new lands and riches in the Holy land. They used God as an excuse for plundering, theft, simply taking land, murder of Muslim, Jew, and even Christians, and even cannibalism. Most were not Christians but took the Popes crusade as a way to enrich them which explains why they do so much attacking of things that had little to do with the return of Jerusalem. There are exceptions but in general the crusaders were scum bags and at least once in history the Muslims acted more honorably in general. The rest of history is the exact opposite but I must give them there one moment in the sun. BTW Islams great contribution to science was mainly in retaining and sudying Greek texts while the Catholics were burning them as fast as possible. They added onto some, but invented very little original scientific knowledge.
 
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1robin

Christian/Baptist
Yes I know that in the past Islam had some great accomplishments. Right now though it's full of ******** who shoot little girls in the head for going to school. I know that's not everybody everywhere, but you have to admit that's pretty bad PR.

If it's any consolation, African Christians torturing and murdering children for "witchcraft" is equally bad PR for christianity, and seller violence is terrible PR for judaism. I have little inclination to learn more about any of these religions.

I am glad to see your venom find an appropriate target.
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
All religions have had this issue but Jews no longer stone people and Christians do longer go on Crusades. The issue is that not all religions have progressed and moved on past their negative issues. Almost all religions have modernized except for Islam. Islam just seems to be lagging behind while other nations who are of other faiths are progressing.

Yes no more stoning, now bullets and bombs instead. :D
 

Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
Your posts have been pretty much on the mark as this one is but I wanted to adjust one thing. The Crusaders were mostly petty noblemen who were losing their butt economically and though they could acquire new lands and riches in the Holy land. They used God as an excuse for plundering, theft, simply taking land, murder of Muslim, Jew, and even Christians, and even cannibalism. Most were not Christians but took the Popes crusade as a way to enrich them which explains why they do so much attacking of things that had little to do with the return of Jerusalem. There are exceptions but in general the crusaders were scum bags and at least once in history the Muslims acted more honorably in general. The rest of history is the exact opposite but I must give them there one moment in the sun. BTW Islams great contribution to science was mainly in retaining and sudying Greek texts while the Catholics were burning them as fast as possible. They added onto some, but invented very little original scientific knowledge.

Oh I know for a fact the Crusades were not theologically inspired. But the fact that they manipulated scripture to support it is quite obvious. The church condoned it so immediately it was supported at that time.
The Crusades were about profit and the false claim of "retaking the holy land" was made yet nowhere in history was the "holy land" ever taken by the Christian and despite Israel being conquered numerous times, the occupation of Jerusalem hasn't except during Palestinian occupation.
All religious wars are a scam because nobody really desires to die for their God needlessly. Only exception has been Islam as of now, which makes it such a new threat since there has not been a case of true devotion to a deity that has been this sincere.
 

Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
Yes no more stoning, now bullets and bombs instead. :D

Masha'allah brother! :D
It is good to see a Muslim desire progression because I have known many who ironically are primarily females who have the archaic idea of Islam. Some even opposed science being taught in schools and believe that all science is purely fiction and is not valid unless explained by Islamiyyah reasoning :facepalm:.
I have seen my share of awful Muslim so it always makes me smile seeing a person like you hold personal critique towards possibly invalid hadith and theological reasoning. A lot of Muslim will blindly follow every shaykh with a PHD no questions asked. Too many Muslim equate the word of a fallible shaykh with the infallible words of god. Shaykh Muhammad Salah is one of them and I recall a video of him pulling out invalid and non existent hadiths before as well. I am going to see if I can find it but it is extremely pitiful.

Peace out bro :namaste:
 

1robin

Christian/Baptist
Oh I know for a fact the Crusades were not theologically inspired. But the fact that they manipulated scripture to support it is quite obvious. The church condoned it so immediately it was supported at that time.
The Crusades were about profit and the false claim of "retaking the holy land" was made yet nowhere in history was the "holy land" ever taken by the Christian and despite Israel being conquered numerous times, the occupation of Jerusalem hasn't except during Palestinian occupation.
The actual impetus for the crusades was a legitimate one. To stop the Muslim Turks from attacking pilgrims going to the Holy Land. It also afforded the Western Roman authorities (incl the Pope) an opportunity to muscle in on the Eastern empire. The Church decided it would use some kind of God wills it to justify and inspire everyone. Mostly it was Europe's rabble and petty nobles. They would yell "God wills it" and then kill God's children in town after town. As despicable as the crusaders were they are a fascinating period of history.
All religious wars are a scam because nobody really desires to die for their God needlessly. Only exception has been Islam as of now, which makes it such a new threat since there has not been a case of true devotion to a deity that has been this sincere.
I believe most religious wars are crap as well. However there have been many people willing to fight and risk death for the cause of God. Like you say, not many people prefer to die for God but many are willing if necessary. There is a Roman Record where Pilot’s successor sent a letter back to Rome that said the policy of killing any Jews or Christians that will not declare Caesar a God is a failure. He said he was simply killing everyone in Israel on an industrial scale because almost no one would agree to call Caesar God. He said change the policy or there would be no one left to declare anyone a God. Islam does not die in a martyr’s death. They are willing to accept death if they can take out a bunch of people who had nothing to do with anything and which always makes most people condemn them even stronger. It is one of the most futile and grotesque acts in the name of any God ever done. Muslim terrorists kill more people in a year (and in some "good" months) than were killed in the entire 400 year history of the Spanish inquisition. They kill more in an average week than the KKK did in its entire 50 year history. I wonder what they think will come of this garbage? Gnats will never defeat a bear. America has a long track record of being slow to act but once the entire nation commits, nations are annihilated
 

F0uad

Well-Known Member
Keep up the sarcastic rhetoric and you will not have me responding to it, permanently.
Says the guy who can't stay on topic and forges text that doesn't exist.

I have had all the offensive accusations and assertions to things you can't possibly know I am going to put up with, especially used for proof that Islam is tolerant. The belligerence of some Muslims used in defense of tolerance does Islam no credit and Muhammad needs all the help he can get.
You my friend are a hypocrite just look at what you typed here. Aren't you the one who is saying that Mohammed(saws) was violent, that he was possessed by the devil and that Islam is the teachings of the anti-Christ because it doesn't agree with your own beliefs?

It's self-defeating and I do not have time for it. I said Muhammad has no existing writings. You, yourself agreed with that. You said he only had others write things.
No i didn't agree again putting words in my mouth for no reason, a writing or paper doesn't necessarily to be written by someone to be from him and i already told you those papers (writings) has hes signature on it.

Never mind you missed the entire context of my statements, never mind they were made to someone else, and never mind the false accusations you would not know even if true. My statement is still perfectly accurate but never mind even that. The issue is meaningless the way you are using it no matter what the facts are and I do not have time for the abrasiveness and desperate pleas to bias for anything inconvenient or opposite to the contrived narrative used as a defense for the indefensible.
Again a lot of blabla but no refutation of the evidence i presented, when you are shoved into a corner all you do is make personal remarks how professional Robin.


If you are so sure of yourself please quote the Hadith and show the audience here that i false accused you of using scripture that doesn't exist.
 
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DawudTalut

Peace be upon you.
.......................
.......................
In the first place, the Meccans were not marching on Muhammad. They did send out an army - but it was to protect their caravans from Muslim raiders (who had recently killed Meccan caravan drivers defending their property). The Meccans were not interested in starting a war.............................................................


SECTION 1
1-When Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) announced to pay dues of God and dues of humanity, infidel mafia first mocked and when Divine Message started acceptance, they started persecution which continued in intensity.

2- Believers and Holy Prophet (s.a.w.) migrated to Madina.

3- Few months latter Mecca’s Infidel leaders started to think loudly that Muhammad’s religion would spread and Mecca (Ka’ba) would go in their hands.

i-When a leader of Madina, Saad bin Muaz, went to Mecca for circuiting, Abu Jahal (The most cruel leader from infidels who had always persecuted believers) threatened him with anger that if they continued to provide sanctuary to the apostate [Holy Prophet (s.a.w.)] they would not be able to make circuits of Ka’ba peacefully. Saad replied then they would have no safe passage for Syria.
ii-This fear of new religion’s (Islam) success was so great that a great Meccan Infidel leader, Walid bin Mughira cried at his death bed. Abu Sufyan calmed him by saying that he should not be worried and assured the sick man they would not let it happen.

4- Meccan leaders again started to make plots to attack upon gone away Muslims; they threatened people of Madina for terrible consequences.

5- This situation brought more concern for Holy Prophet (s.a.w.) for the safety. He sent small groups of believers to around Mecca to gather information about preparations of Meccans. Some hateful non-muslims writer view it as hostilities by Holy Prophet (s.a.w.). Can it be called threats or precautionary measures, in the presence of:

i-Past 13 years of serious persecution of believers by Meccans,
ii-Active attempts to raise people of Medina against refugee Muslims,
iii-Threats by Meccans to attack on Madina,
iv-Stopped Muslims from Hajj.
v-Meccan changed the usual routes of their business s to Syria and they started to pass through tribes around Madina. Purpose was to flame them against new comers in Madina (the refugee Muslims) in Madina.

How do modern nations of today react at such situation?

The Holy Prophet (s.a.w.), who was then head of government in Madina --- [he initiated many new departments and systems for justice, education, human rights, taxation, labourers, agreements in business, under privileged ones, cleanliness and health, census, roads, etc----it was the first time that Arabs learned the modern and orderly way of living] --- he had the responsibility to defend Madian. Even though he had the full right to go to war against the Madinite aggressive perpetrators but he did not go to war and continued to practice patience. The all, he did, was only to send people to know what was the planning of opponents?

6-In the 13 th year of Hijra / Migration, a business caravan under the supervision of Abu Sufyan (later he accepted Islam) was coming from Syria. In the disguise of protection, Meccans decided to send a great army to Madina. News reached to Holy Prophet (s.a.w.). Allah revealed to Holy Prophet (s.a.w.) that it was the time to check the brutality of opponent. Thus he went out of Madina with his people. By then it was not clear that to whom they would meet -- the army or caravan. That is why he took 300 men with him.

7- It should not be thought that Meccan caravan meant camels with load. A strong army would accompany those because they wanted to impress Muslims. History make mention of two caravans prior to this one. One of them was accompanied with 200 Meccan soldiers and second with 300 soldiers.

8- Therefore it is very wrong to say by some non-muslims writers that Holy Prophet (s.a.w.) went with 300 believers to loot the unarmed caravan. Considering the large size of this caravan and considering the number of accompanied guards with two previous smaller caravans, it could be estimated that the guards with this larger caravan might be 400 or 500. As earlier mentioned these were not simple business caravans; the other purpose was to make contact with tribes around Medina to excite them against Islam.

9- When poorly armed Muslims left Madina, they did not know for sure whether they were to face the regular Meccan army or with guards-men along with ‘business-carvan’.
10-Divine Design wanted the meeting of believers with regular Meccan army. It was not disclosed to the believers. Reason was to manifest their strength and purity of faith. Outside the Medina, Holy Prophet (s.a.w.) informed the Muslims that Divine Decree was to face the regular Meccan army.


11- Muslims were 313, inexperienced, mostly on foot, few camels, ONE horse. It was extremely dangerous to face a well experienced, well equipped army of more than 1000 regular soldiers.

12- Holy Prophet (s.a.w.) did not want to force these Muslims to jeopardize their lives. He asked for their counsel. Believers among Immigrants and Medinites univocally said they were prepared for the task. They said that enemy could not reach to their beloved Prophet. They would fight back in front for him, his sides and at his back. They would not desert him. [one can compare this pure attitude of those who (Madinites) knew him for only one and half year with those weaks one who were associated with an earlier Prophet; one sold his master for some money, other cursed and rest of 10 deserted the master]. They would go to sea if needed.

13- They On the advice of a companion, they reached at Badr water spring. Water was not enough and field was sandy and inappropriate for firm foots. Companions were very much concerned about it.

14- Holy Prophet (s.a.w.) continued to pray whole night: O my Lord, only these people are those on earth who worship you, if today they are vanished, who would remember you.

15-By the grace of Allah, rain fell that night, believers gathered water. Rain also made the sand hard and it became easy for movements.


SECTION 2
These books are written with best sources. Please find at http://www.alislam.org/books/

Introduction to the Study of The Holy Quran (pdf)

The Life & Character of the Seal of Prophets(sa) - Vol. 1 (pdf)

The Excellent Exemplar - Muhammad (pbuh)

Muhammad: Seal of the Prophets

Holy Prophet of Islam - Hadrat Muhammad Mustafa (saw) (pdf)


SECTION 3
Ibne Ishaq has to be very cautiously quoted.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/136630222/Themoslemsunrise2010-Spring


SECTION 4
Kindly invest your energies for the goodness of your own religion (which has corrupted all the way against the fundamental teaching of the founder of your religion) instead of keep trying to defame Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him).


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


Allah and His angels send blessings on the Prophet. O ye who believe! you also should invoke blessings on him and salute him with the salutation of peace.
Holy Quran ch33:v57 alislam.org/quran
 
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1robin

Christian/Baptist
Says the guy who can't stay on topic and forges text that doesn't exist.


You my friend are a hypocrite just look at what you typed here. Aren't you the one who is saying that Mohammed(saws) was violent, that he was possessed by the devil and that Islam is the teachings of the anti-Christ because it doesn't agree with your own beliefs?


No i didn't agree again putting words in my mouth for no reason, a writing or paper doesn't necessarily to be written by someone to be from him and i already told you those papers (writings) has hes signature on it.


Again a lot of blabla but no refutation of the evidence i presented, when you are shoved into a corner all you do is make personal remarks how professional Robin.


If you are so sure of yourself please quote the Hadith and show the audience here that i false accused you of using scripture that doesn't exist.
That's it I am done with your veiled hostility, used as an ironic defense of a "peaceful" religion and cries of bias for every single inconvenient claim without even an attempt at proving it in most cases. I could have quoted Hadith and have countless times though I have no burden of needing them. They mean little to me or any other non Muslim and are well known to be biased by historical scholars. They are worse than actual historical accounts, are truly biased in every sense of the word, though they and they alone can be used to show that Muhammad was a very violent human being, worse than most of any time, much less for a prophet. In fact one of my next few posts will contain many Hadith references, so you will have to invent a new way to wiggle out of obvious facts. However I am not interested in discussing this further with a person that makes claims that are so petty and personal.
 
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1robin

Christian/Baptist
i'm afraid many of you don't know the story of prophet Mohammed PBUH other than being a great fighter against the oppressors.

[youtube]D0qqxRRBdAA[/youtube]
Prophet Muhammad's Biography - YouTube
I am sure assassinations, raiding caravans, oppressing poets, chopping off of hands and feet of men who surrendered, heads of many others, digging pits a throwing bodies of people killed AFTER the battle was over by the hundreds, and marrying children did not occupy all his time. He also had time to exhibit the exact symptoms that the Bible uses to describe demonic possession when he had his "revelations". He also had time to borrow pre-Islamic myths, adopt the worship practices of pagan Arabians, borrow stories from heretical and gnostic Jews, and get Biblical events all confused and incorrect. You tube will not fix any of this. All of this I have posted examples and sources for and no challenge beyond a minor one two people gave and the common cries of bias that were unproven, have even been attempted. No amount of contrived or even literal good deeds can rescue Muhammad’s diabolical record. His time was sure not spend giving the supernatural proof of his prophethood that true prophets of God had given for thousands of years previously even when challanged to do so. If you stay tuned I am shortly going to provide much more examples and the Islamic sources they come from.
 

1robin

Christian/Baptist
SECTION 1
1-When Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) announced to pay dues of God and dues of humanity, infidel mafia first mocked and when Divine Message started acceptance, they started persecution which continued in intensity.

2- Believers and Holy Prophet (s.a.w.) migrated to Madina.

3- Few months latter Mecca’s Infidel leaders started to think loudly that Muhammad’s religion would spread and Mecca (Ka’ba) would go in their hands.

i-When a leader of Madina, Saad bin Muaz, went to Mecca for circuiting, Abu Jahal (The most cruel leader from infidels who had always persecuted believers) threatened him with anger that if they continued to provide sanctuary to the apostate [Holy Prophet (s.a.w.)] they would not be able to make circuits of Ka’ba peacefully. Saad replied then they would have no safe passage for Syria.
ii-This fear of new religion’s (Islam) success was so great that a great Meccan Infidel leader, Walid bin Mughira cried at his death bed. Abu Sufyan calmed him by saying that he should not be worried and assured the sick man they would not let it happen.

4- Meccan leaders again started to make plots to attack upon gone away Muslims; they threatened people of Madina for terrible consequences.

5- This situation brought more concern for Holy Prophet (s.a.w.) for the safety. He sent small groups of believers to around Mecca to gather information about preparations of Meccans. Some hateful non-muslims writer view it as hostilities by Holy Prophet (s.a.w.). Can it be called threats or precautionary measures, in the presence of:

i-Past 13 years of serious persecution of believers by Meccans,
ii-Active attempts to raise people of Medina against refugee Muslims,
iii-Threats by Meccans to attack on Madina,
iv-Stopped Muslims from Hajj.
v-Meccan changed the usual routes of their business s to Syria and they started to pass through tribes around Madina. Purpose was to flame them against new comers in Madina (the refugee Muslims) in Madina.

How do modern nations of today react at such situation?

The Holy Prophet (s.a.w.), who was then head of government in Madina --- [he initiated many new departments and systems for justice, education, human rights, taxation, labourers, agreements in business, under privileged ones, cleanliness and health, census, roads, etc----it was the first time that Arabs learned the modern and orderly way of living] --- he had the responsibility to defend Madian. Even though he had the full right to go to war against the Madinite aggressive perpetrators but he did not go to war and continued to practice patience. The all, he did, was only to send people to know what was the planning of opponents?

6-In the 13 th year of Hijra / Migration, a business caravan under the supervision of Abu Sufyan (later he accepted Islam) was coming from Syria. In the disguise of protection, Meccans decided to send a great army to Madina. News reached to Holy Prophet (s.a.w.). Allah revealed to Holy Prophet (s.a.w.) that it was the time to check the brutality of opponent. Thus he went out of Madina with his people. By then it was not clear that to whom they would meet -- the army or caravan. That is why he took 300 men with him.

7- It should not be thought that Meccan caravan meant camels with load. A strong army would accompany those because they wanted to impress Muslims. History make mention of two caravans prior to this one. One of them was accompanied with 200 Meccan soldiers and second with 300 soldiers.

8- Therefore it is very wrong to say by some non-muslims writers that Holy Prophet (s.a.w.) went with 300 believers to loot the unarmed caravan. Considering the large size of this caravan and considering the number of accompanied guards with two previous smaller caravans, it could be estimated that the guards with this larger caravan might be 400 or 500. As earlier mentioned these were not simple business caravans; the other purpose was to make contact with tribes around Medina to excite them against Islam.

9- When poorly armed Muslims left Madina, they did not know for sure whether they were to face the regular Meccan army or with guards-men along with ‘business-carvan’.
10-Divine Design wanted the meeting of believers with regular Meccan army. It was not disclosed to the believers. Reason was to manifest their strength and purity of faith. Outside the Medina, Holy Prophet (s.a.w.) informed the Muslims that Divine Decree was to face the regular Meccan army.


11- Muslims were 313, inexperienced, mostly on foot, few camels, ONE horse. It was extremely dangerous to face a well experienced, well equipped army of more than 1000 regular soldiers.

12- Holy Prophet (s.a.w.) did not want to force these Muslims to jeopardize their lives. He asked for their counsel. Believers among Immigrants and Medinites univocally said they were prepared for the task. They said that enemy could not reach to their beloved Prophet. They would fight back in front for him, his sides and at his back. They would not desert him. [one can compare this pure attitude of those who (Madinites) knew him for only one and half year with those weaks one who were associated with an earlier Prophet; one sold his master for some money, other cursed and rest of 10 deserted the master]. They would go to sea if needed.

13- They On the advice of a companion, they reached at Badr water spring. Water was not enough and field was sandy and inappropriate for firm foots. Companions were very much concerned about it.

14- Holy Prophet (s.a.w.) continued to pray whole night: O my Lord, only these people are those on earth who worship you, if today they are vanished, who would remember you.

15-By the grace of Allah, rain fell that night, believers gathered water. Rain also made the sand hard and it became easy for movements.


SECTION 2
These books are written with best sources. Please find at Islamic Books | Online Islamic Library - Al Islam Online

Introduction to the Study of The Holy Quran (pdf)

The Life & Character of the Seal of Prophets(sa) - Vol. 1 (pdf)

The Excellent Exemplar - Muhammad (pbuh)

Muhammad: Seal of the Prophets

Holy Prophet of Islam - Hadrat Muhammad Mustafa (saw) (pdf)


SECTION 3
Ibne Ishaq has to be very cautiously quoted.
Themoslemsunrise2010 Spring


SECTION 4
Kindly invest your energies for the goodness of your own religion (which has corrupted all the way against the fundamental teaching of the founder of your religion) instead of keep trying to defame Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him).


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


Holy Quran ch33:v57 alislam.org/quran
I will give you credit for at least attempting to give evidence against a claim about Muhammad. (Most do not) This will take a bit to evaluate and I will respond soon.
 

F0uad

Well-Known Member
That's it I am done with your veiled hostility, used as an ironic defense of a "peaceful" religion and cries of bias forever single inconvenient claim without even an attempt at proving it in most cases. I could have quoted Hadith and have countless times though I have no burden of needing them. They are worse than actual historical accounts are truly biased in every sense of the word, though they and they alone can be used to show that Muhammad was a very violent human being worse than most, of any time, much less for a prophet. In fact one of my next few posts will contain many Hadith references, so you will have to invent a new way to wiggle out of obvious facts. However I am not interested in discussing this further with a person that makes claims that are so petty.
Go back several pages and see what you wrote.. i hope you will come to the same conclusion you don't want to debate or discuss you just want to be right and if you can't be right you have to make personal remarks or fabricate nonsense. Where is this hadith that you spoke off? Where is this claim that we don't have scripture that belongs to Mohammed(saws)?

You did not even try to address those things when i presented evidence for them, you just had to make personal remarks and say "I am done with you" because you cant handle it.
 
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1robin

Christian/Baptist
What in the world does Jews mocking Jesus have to do with this? I never said Muhammad was violent because someone mocked him or even that he was a false prophet for that reason. I gave examples from Islamic sources for both. The only thing worse than claiming that something extremely faulty and obviously violent, faulty, and false is actually perfect is to claim that all the mountains of evidence and claims from professional Christians scholars, secular scholars, and even many Muslims are all wrong and biased. It appears to be desperate and blind to reality. I have listed many examples myself and given Muslim sources for most and I have had two halfhearted and ineffectual attempts to refute it among countless claims that everything is biased and everyone is against Islam and the like. As soon as I can sort through the mountain of documentation I have gotten over the past two days I will post a whole new list of assassinations, murders, invasions, oppressions, mass killing of defenseless people, and false treaties. You are more than welcome to actually refute with evidence my claims but simply yelling foul whenever you get examples of reality that do not fit the Islamic narrative makes things worse and destroys credibility.

BTW those Jewish rabble rousers never found anything to actually convict Christ of besides what he always claimed. That he was the unique son of God and he even demonstrated the factual correctness of that one. Not a single violent act, no known false statement, no killing of anything, no injustice, no doctrinal problems, no leading of nightmare armies that enforced anything on anyone, or any actual sin of any kind. Compare that with what I will post about Muhammad, soon. God raised Jesus for one reason among others of specifically showing that what he taught the father approved of and what the Jews taught he condemned. Muhammad is still in the grave that the poison of the wife of one of his many victims laid him in. Quite the difference.
 
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Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
I do not blame Jews for not accepting Jesus. The fact is that they know their canonical scripture well while Muslims are trained to hold hatred towards Jews. I have never known a Muslim who curses Jews for everything.
The old argument "we do not hate Jews just Zionists" is seriously misunderstood because the hatred for Jews is obvious.
BUT the issue is that Jews only understand who Jesus was through a Christian viewpoint which is obvious and they will ignore Muslims as well because of the tension with Palestine. Jews are inclined not to like Jesus whether he is Messiah or Son of God. Outside issues influence this.
 
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arthra

Baha'i
From what we know of the life of Prophet Muhammad there are several points that speak to His character...I will only cite a few here that come to mind:

He was gifted a slave Zayd ibn Harithah and allowed him to choose to remain with Him or return to his family.. Generally freeing slaves and educating people were priorities.

He was married for twenty years to Khadijih a monogamous marriage in a society where there were no limits to the number of wives..

When the Kaaba was being rebuilt He resolved a dispute between the tribes by having the Stone Al-Hajar Al-Aswadcarried by a cloth and each tribe lifted a corner from which it was installed in place.

So in my view there are numerous instances we know of that speak of the character of the Prophet.
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
What in the world does Jews mocking Jesus have to do with this? I never said Muhammad was violent because someone mocked him or even that he was a false prophet for that reason. I gave examples from Islamic sources for both. The only thing worse than claiming that something extremely faulty and obviously violent, faulty, and false is actually perfect is to claim that all the mountains of evidence and claims from professional Christians scholars, secular scholars, and even many Muslims are all wrong and biased. It appears to be desperate and blind to reality. I have listed many examples myself and given Muslim sources for most and I have had two halfhearted and ineffectual attempts to refute it among countless claims that everything is biased and everyone is against Islam and the like. As soon as I can sort through the mountain of documentation I have gotten over the past two days I will post a whole new list of assassinations, murders, invasions, oppressions, mass killing of defenseless people, and false treaties. You are more than welcome to actually refute with evidence my claims but simply yelling foul whenever you get examples of reality that do not fit the Islamic narrative makes things worse and destroys credibility.

BTW those Jewish rabble rousers never found anything to actually convict Christ of besides what he always claimed. That he was the unique son of God and he even demonstrated the factual correctness of that one. Not a single violent act, no known false statement, no killing of anything, no injustice, no doctrinal problems, no leading of nightmare armies that enforced anything on anyone, or any actual sin of any kind. Compare that with what I will post about Muhammad, soon. God raised Jesus for one reason among others of specifically showing that what he taught the father approved of and what the Jews taught he condemned. Muhammad is still in the grave that the poison of the wife of one of his many victims laid him in. Quite the difference.

How you explain Jesus second coming for making wars and killing all disbelievers on earth (Armageddon)

Rev (6:13) and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind.

Yes the stars are very small and will fall like fig. :D

Jer (49:14) I have heard a message from the LORD; an envoy was sent to the nations to say, "Assemble yourselves to attack it! Rise up for battle!"

Zec (14:2) I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city.

it seems Jerusalem is a superpower at those days that all nations is needed to fight one city. :D

Zec (14:3) Then the LORD will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights on a day of battle.

Rev (19:11) I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war.

Rev (19:13) He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.

Rev (19:14) The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean.
 

F0uad

Well-Known Member
How you explain Jesus second coming for making wars and killing all disbelievers on earth (Armageddon)

Rev (6:13) and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind.

Yes the stars are very small and will fall like fig. :D

Jer (49:14) I have heard a message from the LORD; an envoy was sent to the nations to say, "Assemble yourselves to attack it! Rise up for battle!"

Zec (14:2) I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city.

it seems Jerusalem is a superpower at those days that all nations is needed to fight one city. :D

Zec (14:3) Then the LORD will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights on a day of battle.

Rev (19:11) I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war.

Rev (19:13) He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.

Rev (19:14) The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean.
He knows nothing about the OT (Old-Testament) and the problems that it brings with it.
 

WyattDerp

Active Member
it seems Jerusalem is a superpower at those days that all nations is needed to fight one city. :D

Or maybe it will be really peaceful and defenseless and happy, and a lot people who look like this

>:[

will gather together to attack it?

I'm saying that because that's what I see happening in real life so often. The mediocre can't get rid of their mediocrity, but they sure can weave webs to try and drag others down to their level. Even J-Live kinda mentioned that in the chorus of "Satisfied":

The poor get worked, the rich get richer
The world gets worse, do you get the picture?
The poor gets dead, the rich get depressed
The ugly get mad, the pretty get stressed
The ugly get violent, the pretty get gone

The old get stiff, the young get stepped on
Whoever told you that it was all good lied
So throw your fists up if you not satisfied


You can grin all you want, but if several men attack and rape a woman, that doesn't mean she was asking for it and such a threat that several people were needed to defuse it with violence. So you can see that that was some ****** up Nazi logic of you; I suggest to dispose of it quietly and to never bring it up again.... or at least don't complain when a drone is "needed" to cancel a wedding in Afghanistan. you seriously *have* to choose one of those options.
 
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