Was Muhammad a good man?

[Monotheist 101]

That's your opinion, my opinion is that I find most of the hadiths to be extreme.

I'd ask you the same.

. It's worth thinking outside of the box.

I was giving my opinion and if you think you have a better suggestion then go for it.

I respect your opinion and your right to it, I just dont agree with it. Nothing personal :faint:

I dont think its logical to refer someone wanting an introduction to Islam to a minority which encompasses merely 5% of Muslims.. I think someone who wants an honest introduction to the Islamic faith should conduct their research in the following order..Sunni Islam (approx 70% of Islamic population), if that doesnt float your boat, Shia Islam(approx 20%), and if that doesnt rock your socks, then try Quraniyun and other minor movements, they should be left till the very end.. Im afraid starting with a Quranist interpretation would rub off negatively and misguide an already confused newcomer to Islam..Their excessive cursing of hadith compilers and dissing of the the Prophets companions is proof that they dont represent true Islam, Islam doesnt teach you to curse people, especially the dead, we leave it to our Lord, The Just, the Most High..not pass concrete verdicts and spread rumors and lies..

Not holding anything against you, You not being Muslim and all, And I know you are only trying to help, but how good can uninformed/misguided help really be?

As for thinking outside the box..Yeh Im all for that, but not everything in life is a game, some of us take this stuff seriously, Thinking outside the box too much can lead to bidaa (innovation), Every individual would apply their personal twist to the interpretation of the Quran, be it a terrorist, a Quranist , a Mahdi claimant, or even 1robin on this thread.. All of whom are similar in that they think outside the box.

As for the Hadith, I find them highly useful, they go well as a supplement to the Quran, I dont read the Hadith books by themselves ever, Rather I use them as a reference, I dont believe all of it is authentic, neither is it all b.s like the Quranist would have you believe..

 

[illykitty]

Well you know, it is hadith that explains the violent verses, in the context they were revealed and all.

Quranist use hadith, just in cherry picking ways

I've only ever seen it used as historical data, not a rule book. How can some people use Hadith more than the Quran to the point that they override it. Example, stoning instead of lashes. That never made sense. Quran was from God, he said to lash, not stone. If he wanted it to say stone, he would have said to put it in the Quran.

I respect your opinion and your right to it, I just dont agree with it. Nothing personal :faint:

Not holding anything against you, You not being Muslim and all, And I know you are only trying to help, but how good can uninformed/misguided help really be?

As for the Hadith, I find them highly useful, they go well as a supplement to the Quran, I dont read the Hadith books by themselves ever, Rather I use them as a reference, I dont believe all of it is authentic, neither is it all b.s like the Quranist would have you believe..

Problem is, I was a Muslim, for a small time. Hadith turned me away. I was in shock and horror about some of it. Then some was superstitious and some just plain weird. I loved the Quran (still do) but all that came out if Hadiths left a very bad taste.

Quranists argue that it's the Hadith that are innovations, not the other way around. People might have had agendas and what better way to make it so by spreading that as a Hadith! Hey if the Prophet says that it's good, we should imitate this! And I know you'll say about the scholars, collecting and "verifying" them but they had no time machine. There's no way to know if it really did happen. Humans are prone to lying, forgetting or twisting things in their advantage. I'd imagine there was still people who wanted the old ways back.

That's my two cents. I could be wrong, but I acknowledge that I don't have all the answers. Hadith left me confused, made things complicated, some made no sense or were plain horrible... Mental gymnastics are never a good thing and yes I know about different degrees of authenticity but I never trusted Chinese whispers and humans to tell the truth instead of having their own agenda! It left me with the feeling of leaving Islam and never looking back. :run:

 

[Monotheist 101]

It left me with the feeling of leaving Islam and never looking back. :run:

Are you sure it was just the Hadith?:sarcastic Ive noticed you jump ship on so many religions in my short time on RF, It seems to me that it might be a lack of commitment on your part, anywho I'm not here to judge, Islam makes sense to me, hope you find something better

 

[OnlyChristCanSaveMe]

I make mistake, I choose the wrong answer on poll, how can I change?

 

[1robin]

You looked lonely.

That is disconcerting.

 

[illykitty]

Are you sure it was just the Hadith?:sarcastic Ive noticed you jump ship on so many religions in my short time on RF, It seems to me that it might be a lack of commitment on your part, anywho I'm not here to judge, Islam makes sense to me, hope you find something better

Maybe, but I think it's my tendency to question everything, hence why I still haven't found ANY religion to not make me doubt. Anyway, I respect you for being tolerant to my comments. And thanks!

 

[YmirGF]

I dont think its logical to refer someone wanting an introduction to Islam to a minority which encompasses merely 5% of Muslims.. I think someone who wants an honest introduction to the Islamic faith should conduct their research in the following order..Sunni Islam (approx 70% of Islamic population), if that doesnt float your boat, Shia Islam(approx 20%), and if that doesnt rock your socks, then try Quraniyun and other minor movements, they should be left till the very end.. Im afraid starting with a Quranist interpretation would rub off negatively and misguide an already confused newcomer to Islam..Their excessive cursing of hadith compilers and dissing of the the Prophets companions is proof that they dont represent true Islam, Islam doesnt teach you to curse people, especially the dead, we leave it to our Lord, The Just, the Most High..not pass concrete verdicts and spread rumors and lies..

I could not agree more. There is little point introducing people to Islam via somewhat radical offshoot groups as their interesting interpretations are not necessarily that of the vast majority of Muslims.

It's like getting into the platform of the American Democratic Party via the loopier ideas of Ron Paul.

 

[YmirGF]

IMO Quranists are extremists, just look at Rashad Khalifa and his blasphemous views..

I don't know about you but I did find his take on 19 to be utterly amusing... until I realized that he was, in fact, serious.

At that point I began to hear the old theme song from The Twilight Zone...

 

[1robin]

Islam makes sense to me, hope you find something better

In what category or on what basis does the Quran make more sense than either Christianity or Judaism for example? I find it one of the most irrational and suspicious faiths there is among the major theologies.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

Maybe, but I think it's my tendency to question everything, hence why I still haven't found ANY religion to not make me doubt. Anyway, I respect you for being tolerant to my comments. And thanks!

Any religion which tries to steal your doubt is a flawed religion.

 

[1robin]

Any religion which tries to steal your doubt is a flawed religion.

If you think a religion that creates ambiguity instead of resolving it is the more valid then what is actually flawed is you not the religion.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

If you think a religion that creates ambiguity instead of resolving it is the more valid then what is actually flawed is you not the religion.

Oh, my. You seem deeply confused. You think God wants us to intellectually die? To give up ambiguity and stop growing?

Thank God I've escaped the Abrahamic traditions.

 

[1robin]

Oh, my. You seem deeply confused. You think God wants us to intellectually die? To give up ambiguity and stop growing?

Thank God I've escaped the Abrahamic traditions.

Only you could find value in not knowing something. Of course that would explain a lot concerning you.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

Only you could find value in not knowing something. Of course that would explain a lot concerning you.

Just so. Thank you.

But I think there are others who value the not-knowing. I can't be the only spiritual genius of our day!

Can I?

 

[1robin]

Just so. Thank you.

But I think there are others who value the not-knowing. I can't be the only spiritual genius of our day!

Can I?

I would think the lack of certain knowledge a negative in 99.9% of humanities view. If you value ignorance I do not think you are in much or good company. However it would allow anything to be claimed and so probably explains your valuation of it. It is obvious and has been mentioned by others that you are not here to have a serious debate and you care little for rational discussions so what in the world is it you gain here that makes typing a post worth doing?

 

[Quagmire]

I would think the lack of certain knowledge a negative in 99.9% of humanities view.

I would call the illusion of certainty a much more destructive form of ignorance.

 

[metis]

Let me just mention that I believe the poll is tremendously flawed since it tends to just offer either/or-type options. IOW, there's no middle ground.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

I would think the lack of certain knowledge a negative in 99.9% of humanities view.

Alas, it is true that many are still lost from God. But please don't blame me. I am spreading God's Word of Ambiguity as quickly and as well as I can! Do you expect me to turn this ship on a dime?

If you value ignorance I do not think you are in much or good company.

Don't sell yourself short. I certainly haven't given up on you. Neither should you.

It is obvious and has been mentioned by others that you are not here to have a serious debate and you care little for rational discussions so what in the world is it you gain here that makes typing a post worth doing?

See what I mean? No true God would direct His followers to speak in such an ugly way to another human. When one embraces ambiguity, one feels no anger toward those who see life differently.

We are all ambassadors of our God, my friend. When you speak, try to remember that.

Anyway, I think we're distracting from the OP, so I'll bow out now.

 

[1robin]

I would call the illusion of certainty a much more destructive form of ignorance.

You would first have to prove that both a claim of certainty exists and then that is was actually an illusion for example as in the case of morality derived in the absence of God would be. However, if you can do both of these then I would have to agree with the principle you state.

 

[1robin]

Let me just mention that I believe the poll is tremendously flawed since it tends to just offer either/or-type options. IOW, there's no middle ground.

What other options would you have liked to see available? I do not see anything necessary left out in those choices IMO.