Was Muhammad a good man?

[Quagmire]

You would first have to prove that both a claim of certainty exists and then that is was actually an illusion for example as in the case of morality derived in the absence of God would be. However, if you can do both of these then I would have to agree with the principle you state.

Since I was offering it as a general principle rather than pointing to any specific case thereof I don't actually feel that there's any obligation on my part to "prove" anything.

I'll just go ahead and let you do that for me.

 

[1robin]

Since I was offering it as a general principle rather than pointing to any specific case thereof I don't actually feel that there's any obligation on my part to "prove" anything.

I'll just go ahead and let you do that for me.

I have no interest in providing examples to illustrate what you claim. I agree with what you said in principle but it means virtually nothing unless it is applied to a specific claim. That is not my burden nor interest and with a person who can arbitrarily dismiss anything another poster has spent a significant time to provide, it is neither a justified task.

 

[Quagmire]

I have no interest in providing examples to illustrate what you claim.

That's OK, you regularly provide all the examples anyone could ask for.

I agree with what you said in principle but it means virtually nothing unless it is applied to a specific claim.

So principles mean nothing to you?

That is not my burden nor interest and with a person who can arbitrarily dismiss anything another poster has spent a significant time to provide, it is neither a justified task.

I would ask you what you're trying to say here, but experience tells me that by the time I do you will have forgotten yourself.

 

[1robin]

That's OK, you regularly provide all the examples anyone could ask for.

I see personal commentary and not rational discourse is your plan of action here. No proof, no evidence, not even an attempt at an actual argument. Baseless assertions devoid of evidence a meaningful discussion do not make. The fact you have had the nerve to accuse others of doing exactly what you yourself did here is appalling, especially when you refused to even attempt to show the evidence even when requested for that claim and then refused to read responses to your baseless arguments.

So principles mean nothing to you?

Does the principle of addition put money in your account or the fact someone deposits a check. Principles are fine just not capable of doing any actual work.

I would ask you what you're trying to say here, but experience tells me that by the time I do you will have forgotten yourself.

Since sarcasm is apparently the only thing you have to offer I will leave you with it. I wish I would have known this a few posts ago, but it will not be soon forgotten. Are claims like what you have supplied in the last week or two in response to mine really worth making for you? Why? What possible merit can you find in what you typed here?

Tell you what I will leave you with it for now. There is no justification for encouraging this discussion any longer.

 

[Quagmire]

I see personal commentary and not rational discourse is your plan of action here. No proof, no evidence, not even an attempt at an actual argument. Baseless assertions devoid of evidence a meaningful discussion do not make. The fact you have had the nerve to accuse others of doing exactly what you yourself did here is appalling, especially when you refused to even attempt to show the evidence even when requested for that claim and then refused to read responses to your baseless arguments.

Let me know when the lectures over. Oh wait, I forgot who I was talking to: the lecture is NEVER over.

Noticed you took the time to sprinkle in the requisite baseless accusations there too. Thanks, I would have been disappointed otherwise.

Does the principle of addition put money in your account or the fact someone deposits a check. Principles are fine just not capable of doing any actual work.

I see: you don't actually want to discuss the merits of the principle I referred to, you want to discuss the comparative values of any and all principles vs pragmatism.

Now I understand why these conversations wind up so convoluted.

Since sarcasm is apparently the only thing you have to offer I will leave you with it.

I was being completely serious.

I wish I would have known this a few posts ago, but it will not be soon forgotten. Are claims like what you have supplied in the last week or two in response to mine really worth making for you?

Sure are. And that goes regardless of what you decide to do with them.

Why?

I'm trying to find a way to answer that honestly without violating rule 1.

OK: lets just say that I find it necessary in order to maintain some level of integrity in "discussions" like these.

What possible merit can you find in what you typed here?

You wouldn't understand.

Tell you what I will leave you with it for now. There is no justification for encouraging this discussion any longer.

I love the way you keep going for the "I've had my say now the conversation is over" maneuver in spite of the fact that we both know it isn't.

 

[1robin]

Let me know when the lectures over. Oh wait, I forgot who I was talking to: the lecture is NEVER over.

Noticed you took the time to sprinkle in the requisite baseless accusations there too. Thanks, I would have been disappointed otherwise.



I see: you don't actually want to discuss the merits of the principle I referred to, you want to discuss the comparative values of any and all principles vs pragmatism.

Now I understand why these conversations wind up so convoluted.



I was being completely serious.



Sure are. And that goes regardless of what you decide to do with them.



I'm trying to find a way to answer that honestly without violating rule 1.

OK: lets just say that I find it necessary in order to maintain some level of integrity in "discussions" like these.



You wouldn't understand.



I love the way you keep going for the "I've had my say now the conversation is over" maneuver in spite of the fact that we both know it isn't.

I was looking for one last meaningful post to respond to before I called it quits. This is not it. If I am in a mood for baseless commentary I might get around to this tomorrow. How you can do what you have and still complain about the evidence for claims made by others about Islam escapes me. I would prefer however to debate an issue if that is a capacity you have and value. I make no promise to continue or encourage this futile rant any further but if extremely bored, might anyway.

 

[Quagmire]

I was looking for one last meaningful post to respond to before I called it quits. This is not it. If I am in a mood for baseless commentary I might get around to this tomorrow. How you can do what you have and still complain about the evidence for claims made by others about Islam escapes me.

I'm not going to ask you where you saw me do this because I know I won't get an answer.

Imagination is a wonderful tool, but a terrible master.

 

[1robin]

I'm not going to ask you where you saw me do this because I know I won't get an answer.

Imagination is a wonderful tool, but a terrible master.

I notice you constantly ask questions (which are only a form of disguised complaint) and then invent some reason why it is another's fault you are not interested in an answer. It is also funny that you were not even interested enough to read a post about an actual debate issue but when sarcasm and personal rhetoric are the subjects there is no stopping you. Have a good one that was all I could take for today at least.

 

[Quagmire]

I notice you constantly ask questions (which are only a form of disguised complaint) and then invent some reason why it is another's fault you are not interested in an answer. It is also funny that you were not even interested enough to read a post about an actual debate issue but when sarcasm and personal rhetoric are the subjects there is no stopping you. Have a good one that was all I could take for today at least.

Again: Imagination is a wonderful tool, but a terrible master. :yes:

 

[Monotheist 101]

I don't know about you but I did find his take on 19 to be utterly amusing... until I realized that he was, in fact, serious.

At that point I began to hear the old theme song from The Twilight Zone...

He went to great lengths to prove the 19 theory..even tried removing a few verses from the Quran so it would fit his 19 equation... reminds me of that movie..A Beautiful Mind..no wonder he lost it towards the end of his life..

 

[1robin]

Again: Imagination is a wonderful tool, but a terrible master. :yes:

I see nothing in that statement worthy of repetition but I guess your options are limited. I am not circling the drain with this pointless discussion today. If you actually post something relevant to this forum's purpose I will address it. If not I probably will not.

 

[Quagmire]

I see nothing in that statement worthy of repetition but I guess your options are limited.

Just trying to help. And as far as that goes, yeah, pretty limited options there. In fact, I'm just about out of ideas.

I am not circling the drain with this pointless discussion today. If you actually post something relevant to this forum's purpose I will address it. If not I probably will not.

LOL! "relevant to this forum's purpose". If you were using this forum for what it's for we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

[MusaaEl-Haadi]

Let's put aside all the wars and the bloody battles, the ones that forced my ancestors to convert to Islam. Let's put all that aside, let's picture an old man asking his best friend if he could have his permission to marry his 6 year old daughter. His friend agrees. The man then visits his best friend’s house and speaks with the 6 year old daughter. Her parents watch as the he proposes marriage to the child. He is serious; he wants to marry the little girl and is asking for her consent. The little child says nothing; she only stares at him in silence.

The Islamic source materials state that Muhammad proposed marriage to Aisha when she was 6. He assumed her silence constituted her consent. Some 2 to 3 years later, just after he had fled to Medina, he consummated his marriage with her. He was 52 and she was 9. This occurred prior to Aisha’s first menses and by Islam’s legal definition Aisha was still considered a child. Islam teaches that a child enters adulthood at the beginning of puberty. (This is scientifically inaccurate, the onset of puberty does not equal adulthood).

The bottom line is Muhammad, the creator of Islam, revered by his followers, had sex with a child! Worse, Muhammad's action and teachings on marriage established an Islamic precedent and Islamic law allows female children to be married off and engaged in sex provided they are able to handle a man’s penis (Quran 65:4). This has lead to physical, and psychological damage to many children.

Please, I ask you kindly, as intelligent people, explain to me HOW and WHY do you revere Muhammad as a good man?

Are you asking this question according to The Holy Qur''aan as a Prophet from Allah , Or what some Religious media / Christian Hadith's = Words of men and not of God ???

 

[1robin]

Just trying to help. And as far as that goes, yeah, pretty limited options there. In fact, I'm just about out of ideas.



LOL! "relevant to this forum's purpose". If you were using this forum for what it's for we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Well this was not what I meant. Try again.

 

[NotASockpuppet]

Mohammed was hands down a terrible person.

Now way was he a prophet or even a good leader. He ruled by terror with an iron fist, killing all those who disagreed with him.

Good leaders do not need to do that.

 

[Quagmire]

Well this was not what I meant. Try again.

Yes it is. It just back-fired on you. :yes:

 

[1robin]

Yes it is. It just back-fired on you. :yes:

Still not there. Do you need a suggestion or an example?

 

[Quagmire]

Still not there. Do you need a suggestion or an example?

Nah. I already have you, your point, and your over-all purpose figured out, thanks.

 

[1robin]

Nah. I already have you, your point, and your over-all purpose figured out, thanks.

Then I guess you are done then, at least hopefully concerning me.

 

[Quagmire]

Then I guess you are done then, at least hopefully concerning me.

My work is never done.