Was Muhammad a good man?

[1robin]

I believe Muhammad was the greatest man ever to walk the planet.

Assalatu wassalam alaika ya rasool allah

Assalatu wassalam alaika ya habib allah

Good Lord man. Give me any general category and I will find several that made far more impressive contributions.

 

[FearGod]

What we get from Alexander today is basically social concepts and knowledge including engineering and modern society and it's values as his accomplishments fortified what would become the pinnacle of greatness for the Hellenic age which spawned modern Europe and including the knowledge obtain during the Khalifa which included all of your great theologians.



I am not into sports and I have no idea how people judge football teams. I know nothing about this.

Greatness is measured accorded to one;s achievements in a particular field. It can be measured by impact, uniqueness or quantity.

So you agree that prophet Mohammed was a great man but not differ in greatness than similar great men in the history.

How many historian agree with you about Alexander the great

Those writers and others had believed prophet Mohammed to be a great man.

Mahatma Gandhi
Sir George Bernard
Sarojini Naidu
Thomas Carlyle
Michael H Hart
Historian, John William Draper
Sir William Muir
James Michener
Dr Marcus Dods
John Davenport
W Montgomery Watt
Bosworth Smith
Stanley Lane-Poole
Dr Annie Besant

Reference : Prophet Muhammad(S) in the Eyes of non-Muslim Thinkers, Islamic Personalities, Hasan Kamoonpuri, New Age Islam

 

[FearGod]

Good Lord man. Give me any general category and I will find several that made far more impressive contributions.

The Elimination of prostitution and supporting women's dignity.

Who did it better ?

Women nowadays are hired by men and paid USD/hour for sexual pleasure.
Who can change such tragical state other than great men.

 

[1robin]

The Elimination of prostitution and supporting women's dignity.

Who did it better ?

Women nowadays are hired by men and paid USD/hour for sexual pleasure.
Who can change such tragical state other than great men.

Well I will certainly give you this. I did not anticipate prostitute emancipation as one of the ways you would classify Muhammad as the greatest person in history. Hernando Cortez took less than a thousand men and conquered a nation of 20 million who were cutting 20,000 heads off of their neighbors a year and I do not even consider him good, but which one did the most good? However answer my questions below and I will check into prostitution.

What exactly did Muhammad do to end prostitution?
How many prostitutes did he personally stop from selling themselves?

Prostitution is not a latter day problem. It is called the oldest profession BTW and it is illegal in all but one place or two in the entire US. Anyway answer my questions and I will look into it. That was certainly not what I expected.

 

[FearGod]

Well I will certainly give you this. I did not anticipate prostitute emancipation as one of the ways you would classify Muhammad as the greatest person in history. Hernando Cortez took less than a thousand men and conquered a nation of 20 million who were cutting 20,000 heads off of their neighbors a year and I do not even consider him good, but which one did the most good? However answer my questions below and I will check into prostitution.

What exactly did Muhammad do to end prostitution?
How many prostitutes did he personally stop from selling themselves?

Prostitution is not a latter day problem. It is called the oldest profession BTW and it is illegal in all but one place or two in the entire US. Anyway answer my questions and I will look into it. That was certainly not what I expected.

prostitution and adultery have been eliminated completely and it is still untill our days.

How he did it ?

i wish if i could know,how he changed one community to completely a different community.

i am awaiting for your reply who did the same or even better as you claimed.

 

[1robin]

prostitution and adultery have been eliminated completely and it is still untill our days.

How he did it ?

i wish if i could know,how he changed one community to completely a different community.

i am awaiting for your reply who did the same or even better as you claimed.

I am getting to that but I have to know some details to know who exceeds him or not. You can't claim he did something you can't show he did. If you can show he did it then you should be able to show how. Did he do so by making a law, did he hire a police force, was he just so admired they stopped being prostitutes, were they scared he was going to kill them like the poets and Jews, or is this just part of Islam's oppression of women in general? I must know what to compare someone else to. What exactly did he do?

 

[FearGod]

I am getting to that but I have to know some details to know who exceeds him or not. You can't claim he did something you can't show he did. If you can show he did it then you should be able to show how. Did he do so by making a law, did he hire a police force, was he just so admired they stopped being prostitutes, were they scared he was going to kill them like the poets and Jews, or is this just part of Islam's oppression of women in general? I must know what to compare someone else to. What exactly did he do?

So you are calling protecting women from prostitution as a part of Islam's oppression of women.

 

[1robin]

So you are calling protecting women from prostitution as a part of Islam's oppression of women.

Nope, I was asking was something done to oppress women called something good to give it more appeal, the way covering up their God given features in mountains of blankets (said to reduce sexual distraction but if so then make men do it as well and then it would be more effective) or stopping them from driving, voting, or getting as much inheritance which are all given makeovers to make them seem moral. Let me ask you something. I looked up Muhammad and prostitution and the first few pages were not about his eliminating it but simply changing it's name and making it acceptable. Have you ever heard of "Muta"?

 

[Quagmire]

Well I will certainly give you this. I did not anticipate prostitute emancipation as one of the ways you would classify Muhammad as the greatest person in history. Hernando Cortez took less than a thousand men and conquered a nation of 20 million who were cutting 20,000 heads off of their neighbors a year

Is Chick Publications putting out history texts now?

 

[1robin]

Is Chick Publications putting out history texts now?

What? Sure glad you are no longer too busy to be incoherent any more.

If you are correct and meaningful I am happy.
Or if at least your are funny I am happy.
or at least it takes coherence to interest me at all.

How did you miss all three?

Do you doubt what I said about the Aztecs or Cortez?

I have no idea what that meant but I would like to discuss Cortez so maybe you can clarify.

 

[FearGod]

Nope, I was asking was something done to oppress women called something good to give it more appeal, the way covering up their God given features in mountains of blankets (said to reduce sexual distraction but if so then make men do it as well and then it would be more effective) or stopping them from driving, voting, or getting as much inheritance which are all given makeovers to make them seem moral. Let me ask you something. I looked up Muhammad and prostitution and the first few pages were not about his eliminating it but simply changing it's name and making it acceptable. Have you ever heard of "Muta"?

If you can't realize that prophet Mohammed have changed one community from ignorance and immorality to the most civilized community in the ancient world then what we have to discuss.

You are saying that women can't drive cars,so Islam in your eyes is Saudi Arabia and then you present the muta which is practiced only by Shia or mostly in Iran and it is kind of marriage which i call it a business marriage that is for a limited time and very costy and such marriage isn't Islamic but is an evil one.

Women were fighting in the battle field similar to men and worked as nurses,so women rode the horses and fought with men.

Read the history in order to understand the changes and also one important thing to know that the name prophet is taken from the word prophecy and the same thing in arabic which means that prophets can foretell about the future.

The prophet prophesied exactly about the war in Iraq and Syria which has occuried recently as a sign for the end of time plus many other events which have occuried as he foretold.

Also the ruling stages in the arabic world have been prophesied.

“Rasul Allah (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam) said: ‘Prophethood will last among you for as long as Allah wills, then Allah will take it away. Then it will be (followed by) a Khilafah Rashida (rightly guided) on the pattern of the Prophethood. It will remain for as long as Allah wills, then Allah will take it away. Afterwards there will be a hereditary leadership which will remain for as long as Allah wills, then He will lift it if He wishes. Afterwards, there will be biting oppression, and it will last for as long as Allah wishes, then He will lift it if He wishes. Then there will be a Khilafah Rashida according to the ways of the Prophethood.’ Then he kept silent.” [Musnad Imam Ahmad]

Scholars explain this hadith in this way: Prophethood as in the beginning of the hadith ended with the death of Muhammad (sal Allahu alaihi wasallam). The next stage was Khilafah Rashida and this was from Abu Bakr Siddiq to Ali ibn Abi Taalib (radi Allahu anhuma). Then the Prophet (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam) said it would be Mulkan which was the rule of the Banu Umayyah, Banu Abbas and the Khilafah Uthmaniyyah. Then after that, he said it would be dictatorship, i.e. oppressive rule, which we are living under today. The next stage will be Khilafah Rashida once again insha-Allah.

Reference : Daily Hadith -- Hadith Explanation | The Return of The Khilafah

 

[Quagmire]

What? Sure glad you are no longer too busy to be incoherent any more.

If you are correct and meaningful I am happy.

If I am correct and meaningful, you wouldn't know it.

Or if at least your are funny I am happy.

Then how come every time I say something funny you start whining and screaming "persecution!"?

or at least it takes coherence to interest me at all.

You misspelled collusion there.

How did you miss all three?

How long do you think you're going to get away with making things personal every time you get spanked in a debate?

Do you doubt what I said about the Aztecs or Cortez?

No, I'm disgusted by it.

First off, at most, there were just over 1 million people living in the Mexican Valley when Cortez arrived, not 20 million. And there's absolutely no doubt at all in my mind that you pulled the "20,000 heads" figure out of . . .lets say, thin air.

But here's the part that got me: " and I do not even consider him good". Wow. Makes me wonder just how much murder, rape, betrayal, and cultural annihilation someone would have to engage in in order to qualify as "good" in your book.

I have no idea what that meant

I'll add it to the list.

but I would like to discuss Cortez so maybe you can clarify.

Oh now, you and I both know that you never actually discuss anything.

 

[1robin]

If I am correct and meaningful, you wouldn't know it.

Saying If implies up until now you haven't been. I am not starting down this pathetic and endless road again.

Then how come every time I say something funny you start whining and screaming "persecution!"?

Maybe it was not actually funny.

You misspelled collusion there.

If my poor skills are not that poor.

How long do you think you're going to get away with making things personal every time you get spanked in a debate?

What are you talking about now? What debate? What spanking? and making what personal?

No, I'm disgusted by it.

First off, at most, there were just over 1 million people living in the Mexican Valley when Cortez arrived, not 20 million. And there's absolutely no doubt at all in my mind that you pulled the "20,000 heads" figure out of . . .lets say, thin air.

Is that your objection. It was my mistake but not a very meaningful one. There were only a few million Aztecs but there were over 30 million counting everything they either controlled or had influence on. It was 20 million that died by small pox alone. However would only 100,00 Aztecs getting smacked down by less than 2000 Spaniards be any less remarkable. BTW I was not claiming what Cortez did as good just what is probably the greatest feat of arms in human history. He was three things. Zealous and sincere Catholic, a military genius, and a greedy European obsessed with God. Now that I have told you he was not used as an argument for God then you probably do not have anything against him.

But here's the part that got me: " and I do not even consider him good". Wow. Makes me wonder just how much murder, rape, betrayal, and cultural annihilation someone would have to engage in in order to qualify as "good" in your book.

If I do not consider him good then how much of anything he did is irrelevant.

I'll add it to the list.



Oh now, you and I both know that you never actually discuss anything.

You will either get back to the subject alone or I will end this discussion very soon. I never claimed anything Cortex did was good. I actually claimed he was not good. I have no idea what your on the soap box about but if it only concerns Cortez or some other actual issue I will participate but I am not doing the personal rhetoric thing anymore no matter how bored you are. I never said Cortez was good but he did do more impressive things than Muhammad's role with protestation which was actually negative in general. You have yet to touch that claim and I have no idea why you would want to?

 

[Monotheist 101]

Oh now, you and I both know that you never actually discuss anything.

You stole the words out of my mouth, I was about to say, some people on here argue for the sake of arguing.

P.S 1robin has the most posts in this thread, but it feels like he's said the least, your winning by a mile robin keep it up!!

Who Posted?Total Posts: 1,154
User NamePosts1robin 338
FearGod 95
Sterling Archer 90
Assad91 65
YmirGF 48
Monotheist 101 44

 

[Quagmire]

Saying If implies up until now you haven't been.

No it doesn't. Earthling isn't your first language, is it.

I am not starting down this pathetic and endless road again.

And yet here we are.

Maybe it was not actually funny.

Maybe we should put up a poll.

If my poor skills are not that poor.

Now there's an improper use of "if".

What are you talking about now? What debate? What spanking? and making what personal?

What post? What forum? What planet? Ah, I see what you're doing there: "If I don't acknowledge it, it doesn't count".

Is that your objection. It was my mistake but not a very meaningful one. There were only a few million Aztecs but there were over 30 million counting everything they either controlled or had influence on.

Wrong. Please stop pulling numbers out of. . . thin air.

It was 20 million that died by small pox alone.

In Mexico you mean? Not even close:

Estimates of the entire native population of the Americas (north and south) prior to invasion vary pretty widely, but few serious scholars put it at above 20 million total.

Again: the population of Aztec Mexico was, at most, just over 1 million.

However would only 100,00 Aztecs getting smacked down by less than 2000 Spaniards be any less remarkable.

Amazing that you could bring up the main reason for the Spaniards success (smallpox) in one paragraph, and then ignore it in the next.

It's not "remarkable", it was inevitable.

The undertone of admiration you seem to have for the Conquistadors is, IMO, pretty twisted.

BTW I was not claiming what Cortez did as good just what is probably the greatest feat of arms in human history.

He was three things. Zealous and sincere Catholic,

Ah, and there we go: Cortez was a Christian. Therefore, anything he did of note, even if it's something that you would vehemently condemn any non-Christian historical figure for doing, is suddenly "remarkable", admirable, a great and noble accomplishment.

a military genius,

Source?

and a greedy European obsessed with God. Now that I have told you he was not used as an argument for God then you probably do not have anything against him.

Of course he's an argument for your God: he's one of the people who facilitated the European conquest (theft) of the land that you're standing on right now. Since ultimately you're one of the people who benefited from everything he and all the other European conquers did, in your eyes he's a hero, and everything he did (since it benefited you eventually) must have been God's will.

If I do not consider him good then how much of anything he did is irrelevant.

Putting aside the fact that 1Robin doesn't get to decide for the rest of the human race which historical events are relevant and which aren't, I have to ask: then why did you bring him up?

You will either get back to the subject alone or I will end this discussion very soon.

You will either stop issuing orders or you will continue to make yourself look ridiculous.

I never claimed anything Cortex did was good. I actually claimed he was not good.

Go back and put that part of the conversation in context. I know you won't actually do that, but I also know it would be a waste of my time to try and do it for you.

I have no idea what your on the soap box about but if it only concerns Cortez or some other actual issue I will participate but I am not doing the personal rhetoric thing anymore no matter how bored you are.

Of course you're going to keep doing the personal rhetoric thing. You can't help it.

I never said Cortez was good but he did do more impressive things than Muhammad's role with protestation which was actually negative in general.

You're completely oblivious to the implications of your own choice of phrasing, aren't you.

You have yet to touch that claim and I have no idea why you would want to?

And if I tried to explain it to you, you would still have no idea.

 

[1robin]

No it doesn't. Earthling isn't your first language, is it.

That was at least an attempt to be humorous so I will give you pity points here.

And yet here we are.

No you are because at least I no longer am.

 

[Quagmire]

That was at least an attempt to be humorous so I will give you pity points here.

Thanks. I'd rather have frubals, but I get plenty of those from other people whenever you and I get together in a thread.

No you are because at least I no longer am.

Leaving? Then my work here is done.

 

[temple]

Listen you are not the right person to judge people over what they do
Without understanding

Prophet peace be upon him when he married aisha he didn't step her room Untill she become adult

So there was no sexual issue



If he attempt to marry child for the reason you mentioned
So why he didn't married only to children?

We can find his first wife was older than him khadijah radi allah anha


We notice that prophet peace be upon him married only one young girl called aisha

He was the king of his time,

Sister of aisha called Asma bint abi baker and she respected prophet which means

Both sister didn't had problem with marrying issues

So what is your problem and what you are trying to prove?

Listen there are people in fifty look like they are fifteen

I mean features and there people age fifteen look like fifty years old

Prophet peace be upon him didn't ask to marry aisha but khawla did ask
Prophet if he accept to propose to aisha

Narrated 'Aisha: ( raa ): “I never felt so jealous of any wife of Allah's Apostle ( saws ) as I did of Khadija*...

Notice :
Khadijah first wife prophet married and she was older than prophet peace be upon him

She dead then he married aisha


It something common even nowadays among celebrities

There are some celebrity practiced love in age sex

Tom Cruise And Katie Holmes may be 16 years apart, but the difference in age seems to work for them. Strange to think that when Katie was 3 years old, Tom was starring in his first film, Endless Love

Women in age sex understand everything, she even work as actor and practice love life as real

Come one we are now 2013

What about liberation that every one talk about?

I know two girls one age sex (she was beautiful fair skin long silky hair and skinny) and other younger who fight over man older than both of them

I don't know if they did understand what they meant to say but I witness such thing

 

[1robin]

You stole the words out of my mouth, I was about to say, some people on here argue for the sake of arguing.

P.S 1robin has the most posts in this thread, but it feels like he's said the least, your winning by a mile robin keep it up!!

Who Posted?Total Posts: 1,154
User NamePosts1robin 338
FearGod 95
Sterling Archer 90
Assad91 65
YmirGF 48
Monotheist 101 44

I see that you and your cohort claim to care about winning and frubals. I guess that clears up what you find of value in a debate. I gave up on your partner, do you have nothing to offer on the issue either?

 

[Quagmire]

I see that you and your cohort claim to care about winning and frubals. I guess that clears up what you find of value in a debate. I gave up on your partner, do you have noting to offer on the issue either?

Nah, the "winning" is a foregone conclusion and the frubals are just perks.

Nice job at stopping the "personal rhetoric" though.