Was Muhammad a good man?

[Pastek]

Oh my thee results of the poll have changed drastically.

What changed ?

 

[1robin]

Oh my thee results of the poll have changed drastically.

I notice three things here. I never mentioned the poll even when it was lopsided in my favor and neither did you. However when a bunch of Muslims are added to the mix and the poll gets almost even then it's poll poll poll. How telling this is.

 

[Pastek]

But if you have Zero interest on Islam or in other words you don't like Islam at all then what you want by discussing and bashing it.

You don't like prophet Mohammed from the first post till this page,so what?
Whats the end of it ?

You'll never never believe that he was a great man,so whats the end of it.

He said it was his favorite subject : Islam
That's why this thread will never end

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

How do I turn this thing off?

There's probably a button on your monitor. If it's lit up, push it until it goes dead. Then you won't have Quagmire kicking you around anymore.

It's easy.

 

[1robin]

He said it was his favorite subject : Islam
That's why this thread will never end

I like discussing Islam even when I bring up good things about Islam and bad things about Christianity like the crusades. I like middle eastern history and architecture. It is one of my favorite subjects but that does not mean this mantra of bias has any application to me or anyone else that disagrees with Islam. I can't believe how many Muslims claim this victimhood crap. Is there a class for this stuff or something? Is there some reason this thread should end at any certain point. Why even mention that?

 

[1robin]

There's probably a button on your monitor. If it's lit up, push it until it goes dead. Then you won't have Quagmire kicking you around anymore.

It's easy.

I doubt it. Apparently nothing can stop it.

 

[Pastek]

. Is there a class for this stuff or something? Is there some reason this thread should end at any certain point. Why even mention that?

I don't care if you want to continue this thread.

Islam is my favorite topic, has no one anything to offer in it's defense?

Do you think we're gonna stay on this thread forever just for you ?

 

[FearGod]

Whether that is true or not you are still mistaken when you claim everyone who disagrees with Islam (most of the world) is a bigot. That is what every crackpot who ever invented one of the bizarre faiths of history had to say to explain why most rejected him. It is probably true many times but continuously claiming it is a cop-out. If I suspect bias I prove it or try very hard to I don't just yell at anyone who does not agree. There is also delusion and mental illness in defending something that should not be.

i meant bigotary in general,so don't think i am pointing to you as i know you are fetching for the truth and maybe you have some problem with your own faith.

Well you stated a bunch of arbitrary claims but I have no idea why.

Those you call arbitrary claims are facts but only you hate to believe them to be so but they are so.

I have studied world history for over 40 years and serve on two civil war round tables. I also have a degree in Mathematics and 190 semester hours in engineering and physics and can state without the slightest fear of being wrong Muslims are not the foundation of science or math in modern times nor ever really were. You are right to say the Catholics plunged science into a dark hole and ruined Europe for a period of time and that the Muslims at that time did make progress but they did so only because they retained Greek and Roman learning and added a little to it when the rest of the West was standing still. However the West came back and out did anything the Muslims ever accomplished. In medicine the Muslims might have made a bigger impact but were still not the founders.

so i am talking with a scientist here.
Math,engineering,science,physics,religion..so you think that muslims just contribute very very very little to science but i an telling you they had contributed very very very much to science.

Read here professor from unbiased scientific western source

Here are a few lists selected at random. Compare how many Christians and Jews appear on them all to Muslims.
Top 10 Greatest Scientists | Biography Online
Inspiring People: Top 10 Scientists of All Time
100 Scientists Who Shaped World History

And the foundation was Islamic.

I typed in greatest scientists in history and picked the first 3 so don't even start the bias stuff. It is your claims that are extremely biased here.

No you aren't biased,read the unbiased link from sceintific American link above ,you'll know that all scientists have studied and added very little to the muslim works.

There is very little truth to any of this. Yes they added some, no they did not make most of the great break throughs and formation of laws. It can easily be argued that Isaac Newton and Einstein accomplished more themselves than all the Muslims in science combined.

So you need Mr. professor to read here another western unbiased source.

I have a math degree and know very well what Muslims did and it is not nearly as substantial as Christianity and Jews have accomplished.

Read here unbiased scientific sources

I have no problem admitting Muhammad was a descent military leader and united a bunch of ignorant tribes into a less ignorant whole, but even as a military leader he is not nearly as impressive as Cortez, Genghis Kahn, Caesar, Alexander, Sparta, etc.... If you start of at the bottom you can't help but go up. However he was a terrible prophet and was exceeding sinful.

You are entitled to your own opinion.

No I did not. I asked why and how it was done and the oppression of women was only one of even many good motivations I mentioned yet because of bias you have singled out that one and it was only a question not an argument. No he did not eliminate prostitution. It still exists and he appears to have made it Holy by changing its name and circumstances a little.

Your evidences

Atheists did not invent it nor practice it when it was invented. They might do so now as parts of Islam have finally given up the practice (others still use it). However in Muhammad's day it was common and many companions are said to have practiced it. I ask you again what did Muhammad do to eliminate prostitution (even though it still exists in the middle East)?

Your evidences that it was common in the era of the prophet.

I have no idea what this means.

Try again to get what it means

Ok, what does that mean or prove.

it means women are dealt with as an entertainment tools for men.

I have no disagreement. The US has been influenced so much by secularism since 1960 that we have really lost our moral roots in many areas. Why are we comparing the US to anyone?

i aint comparing Us to anyone,i have also included Israel as well,but we may add 100 more places all over the world.

Which even if it was true you did not show. However the lists I provided do show that your views about science are very biased.

Read the unbiased links above

If you call killing them for writing poetry and stripping them of rights then fine.

false accusations

Instead of YOUTUBE (for God's sake) I will provide scholarship that is well referenced and reviewed.

• A Muslim man in Iran cut off his 7-year-old daughter’s head because he suspected she had been raped by her uncle?1

So what,he is a stupid man

• Many little Muslim girls have their genitals cut out – without anesthesia – in order to destroy their sexuality and make them "pure"? 2

That is a cultural thing in Africa and Egypt

• Daughter and wife beating are routine in the Muslim world. Over 90 percent of Pakistani wives, for instance, have been struck, beaten, or abused sexually – for offenses like cooking an unsatisfactory meal, or for failing to give birth to a male child?3

The prophet last sermon confirms that we should be kind with women.

• In Iran the legal age for marriage is nine years old, and in an Afghan refugee camp virtually all the girls over second grade were married?4

That is a cultural thing which is seldom nowadays and it was happening all over the world and still happening,not mentioning how many kids were raped as well.

• Women who are raped in Muslim countries often end up being punished while the rapist gets off free?5

Not true.

• All a man has to do to divorce his wife is say, "I divorce you" three times – and then she is a single woman without support and without her children, who are usually taken by the father?6

Did you study the Islamic laws professor,but you are absolutely wrong,

Laws of Divorce in Islam

 

[1robin]

i meant bigotary in general,so don't think i am pointing to you as i know you are fetching for the truth and maybe you have some problem with your own faith.

I certainly have problems with what people have done in the name of my faith but not with God or the Bible. terrible things have been done in the name of Christ but I believe Christ was sinless, the unique son of God, and savior. In fact I know he is.

Those you call arbitrary claims are facts but only you hate to believe them to be so but they are so.

I did not say they were false nor that I did not want to believe them. I said they were arbitrary and I could not figure out what the point behind them was.

so i am talking with a scientist here.
Math,engineering,science,physics,religion..so you think that muslims just contribute very very very little to science but i an telling you they had contributed very very very much to science.

No I am no scientist. I have a math degree but barely made it. I work on military electronic war fighting equipment. I however do know quite a bit about science history, military history, and theology/philosophy.

Read here professor from unbiased scientific western source

If you look up the greatest works of science history you will find Principia probably at the top on it but I can't find one that has Alhazen on it. I went to optics engineering school and did not do so well but that work was never mentioned and it is a secular university. However lets say it is perfectly true. Is discovering a few basic facts about optics a reason for claiming Islam founded science. Especially since most of science was founded long before anyone ever heard of Islam, and a hole in a box is not the foundation of the camera, it is a hole in a box. Cameras are 90% chemistry not optics at least the first ones were, now they are 90% electronics and 10% optics. BTW principia the greatest scientific work ever written was written by a man who wrote more on Christianity than science.

And the foundation was Islamic.

It absolutely was not. The foundations of science already were old before anyone ever heard of Islam. The thing they are most famous for is Algebra yet the Egyptians, Greeks, and Romans used it and used it in many cases to do far greater things than Islam ever did long before Islam was even a word. Islam only originated the word for it.

No you aren't biased,read the unbiased link from sceintific American link above ,you'll know that all scientists have studied and added very little to the muslim works.

I read it. Interesting but not even a millionth of what you would need to claim what you have been. I studied for over 4 years. I work for a Phd in information theory, one cousin has Phd in industrial engineering, one a masters in mechanical engineering, my brother is a national merit scholarship winner and had 3.95 in computer engineering, my father worked on Apollo and space shuttle. Not one of them used anything a Muslim invented that I can think of. Every family gathering for years all we talk about is work or school and never has anything a Muslim did been mentioned. We use things the Egyptians and/or Chinese invented, the Greeks added to, the Romans advanced, primarily the Christian Europeans codified and standardized, and the Americans perfected. I am sure a few Muslim contributions were in the mix but not crucial. If you wish I can list most of the fundamental foundations used in modern practical science and engineering. Muslims had their day but were not foundational or essential to at the very least what is being built using science today.

So you need Mr. professor to read here another western unbiased source.

Listen your are just out of your depth. I already knew most of what your links claimed and know what it actually means. Every day I use Rubidium gas oscillators, GPS military tracking equipment, DACs, smart Multiplexors, $250,000 spectrum analyzers, plus many many more scientific instruments most people never see. I know about practical science, engineering, and it's history. Islam had it's day. It was nothing all extraordinary but they did contribute but what they contributed was generally just steps, not foundations nor huge breakthroughs. I am speaking I general and I am sure a few exceptions exist but the big players in science were.

1. Greece
2. European Christians.
3. Modern Americans.
4. Rome.
5. Egypt.
6. China.
7. Islam.

Some may go up or down a block or two but that is a reasonable hierarchy of achievement.

You are entitled to your own opinion.

I know way more about military history than science and theology combined and that was no opinion. He was at best a moderate to competent military commander.

This things is getting too long. I will break it up.

 

[1robin]

Your evidences

There was about 6 things mentioned. Evidence for which ones.

Your evidences that it was common in the era of the prophet.

This subject is a new one to me. However everything I read suggested it was common during Muhammad's and the companions lifetimes. It also was encouraged because of wars they waged against every culture near the Mediterranean and led them far from their actual wives. It still exists but has been stopped in many places.

Try again to get what it means

Ok but it will have to wait till I am done with this post.

it means women are dealt with as an entertainment tools for men.

What women? You mean in the West? I have already agreed that our morals are currently in trouble as secularism has gained traction. However in 45 years I have only seen prostitutes in one city and I have been to many dozens. It does occur far too often though. Islam resents our occidental culture and in large part I agree but I do not think Islam is from God. It doesn't need to be to see we have serious moral problems but Islam has just as many but of different kinds as well. The difference is that Islamic nations are Islamic. There are no Christian nations except the Vatican. We are in the world not of the world. Islam is both. It is a state system Christianity is not. !940-50 US is the closest we came and it was the most powerful and successful nation in human history and was very moral as well.

i aint comparing Us to anyone,i have also included Israel as well,but we may add 100 more places all over the world.

I would compare Israel to every Islamic nation in the middle east combined and it would be better in most statistics even while being attacked by Islam every few years. Outside that I think any comparison would be too large to be practical. I would compare US to those same nations because I am from here and know our history.

Read the unbiased links above

I did and already knew almost everything they stated and what I said is still true.

false accusations

I did not intend to post those few examples, I meant to only copy link but copying from PDF is a little difficult. Did you read the link. It got very detailed.

• A Muslim man in Iran cut off his 7-year-old daughter’s head because he suspected she had been raped by her uncle?1

So what,he is a stupid man

Combined with the tens of thousands doing these same type of fundamental and violent acts to what seems like every culture on Earth by Muslims I see in every days newspaper really starts to add up. Even if your faith did not support all those acts why is it so easily thought to. Your God made a big mistake of no matter how you look at it. Yes he is stupid but there are way to many Muslims doing this stuff to separate it from the faith.

• Many little Muslim girls have their genitals cut out – without anesthesia – in order to destroy their sexuality and make them "pure"? 2

That is a cultural thing in Africa and Egypt

“Circumcision is obligatory (O: for both men and women. For men it consists of removing the prepuce from the penis, and for women, removing the prepuce (Ar. Bazr) of the clitoris.” Sacred Islamic Reliance: page 59, Umdat al-Salik (“Reliance of the Traveler”), a manual of the Shafi’i school of Islamic jurisprudence, endorsed by Egypt’s very own Al-Azhar University of Cairo — the oldest and most prestigious university in the Islamic world.
Female Genital Mutilation: An Islamic Crime | FrontPage Magazine

• Daughter and wife beating are routine in the Muslim world. Over 90 percent of Pakistani wives, for instance, have been struck, beaten, or abused sexually – for offenses like cooking an unsatisfactory meal, or for failing to give birth to a male child?3

The prophet last sermon confirms that we should be kind with women.

Then why is it in the Quran and happens so often in Islam?

• In Iran the legal age for marriage is nine years old, and in an Afghan refugee camp virtually all the girls over second grade were married?4

That is a cultural thing which is seldom nowadays and it was happening all over the world and still happening,not mentioning how many kids were raped as well.

Iran is one of the most fundamental of Islamic nations. They have Muslim eti-cate police on the streets and use sharia and Islamic Juris-prudence. Islam is cultural.

• Women who are raped in Muslim countries often end up being punished while the rapist gets off free?5

Not true.

I have heard the news stories of this over and over and they are always in Islamic nations. Yelling not true is no better than bias unless you prove. I can find these cases if needed. Do you live in a freedom of the press nation?

• All a man has to do to divorce his wife is say, "I divorce you" three times – and then she is a single woman without support and without her children, who are usually taken by the father?6

Did you study the Islamic laws professor,but you are absolutely wrong,

I do not care enough about this one to look it up but I have heard this so many times there must be truth to it and you did not even attempt to show it was wrong anyway.

I actually wanted you to respond to the site. Did you read it? You really need to drop the derogatory professor crap as I never even claimed to be a scientists or anything similar.

 

[Sha'irullah]

1. Greece
2. European Christians.
3. Modern Americans.
4. Rome.
5. Egypt.
6. China.
7. Islam.

Just because knowledge came about during Christendom does not mean it was at the hands of Christians!
Most achievements came through the early trickling of the enlightenment period.

So it should be closer to...

1. Greece
2. Rome(continued Greek engineering and to place them at 4 is intellectually dishonest)
3. Modern Americans
4. China
5. Khalifa
6. Christian Europe
7. Egypt.


Take into factor that Christian Europe brought about the Dark Ages. You forgot that little bit

 

[1robin]

Just because knowledge came about during Christendom does not mean it was at the hands of Christians!

I did not say it all did but most of the most important stuff and much of what's left did. Did you look at the lists of great scientists I gave links to.

Most achievements came through the early trickling of the enlightenment period.

Which actually had Christian roots oddly enough but that takes much time to hash out. Just look at the greatest scientists and their faiths.

So it should be closer to...

1. Greece
2. Rome(continued Greek engineering and to place them at 4 is intellectually dishonest)
3. Modern Americans
4. China
5. Khalifa
6. Christian Europe
7. Egypt.


Take into factor that Christian Europe brought about the Dark Ages. You forgot that little bit

I actually think Christian Europe could have been number one even counting the dark ages which I have mentioned over and over and condemned the Catholics for creating it. Let me throw out some names.


1Isaac Newtonthe Newtonian RevolutionAnglican (rejected Trinitarianism, i.e., Athanasianism;
believed in the Arianism of the Primitive Church)2Albert EinsteinTwentieth-Century ScienceJewish3Neils Bohrthe AtomJewish Lutheran4Charles DarwinEvolutionAnglican (nominal); Unitarian5Louis Pasteurthe Germ Theory of DiseaseCatholic6Sigmund FreudPsychology of the UnconsciousJewish; Atheist; Freudian psychoanalysis (Freudianism)7Galileo Galileithe New ScienceCatholic8Antoine Laurent Lavoisierthe Revolution in ChemistryCatholic9Johannes KeplerMotion of the PlanetsLutheran10Nicolaus Copernicusthe Heliocentric UniverseCatholic (priest)11Michael Faradaythe Classical Field TheorySandemanian12James Clerk Maxwellthe Electromagnetic FieldPresbyterian; Anglican; Baptist13Claude Bernardthe Founding of Modern Physiology 14Franz BoasModern AnthropologyJewish15Werner HeisenbergQuantum TheoryLutheran16Linus PaulingTwentieth-Century ChemistryLutheran17Rudolf Virchowthe Cell Doctrine 18Erwin SchrodingerWave MechanicsCatholic19Ernest Rutherfordthe Structure of the Atom 20Paul DiracQuantum Electrodynamics 21Andreas Vesaliusthe New AnatomyCatholic22Tycho Brahethe New AstronomyLutheran23Comte de Buffonl'Histoire Naturelle 24Ludwig BoltzmannThermodynamics 25Max Planckthe QuantaProtestant
100 Scientists Who Shaped World History


I see no Muslim's and plenty of Christians from Europe. Every list is essentially the same. I will change the list again.

1. Egypt
1.5 Greece
2. Christian Europe
3. Modern Americans Late comers no doubt but Lord did they make up for it.
4. Rome (continued Greek science but founded little of their own, if this were engineering or administration they would be no.1
4.5 Cold war Russia (mainly rocketry and mathematics)
5. China
6. Khalifa ( I assume this means caliphate)

If it were about medicine Islam would be closer to the top but not science.

 

[YmirGF]

1. Egypt
1.5 Greece
2. Christian Europe
3. Modern Americans Late comers no doubt but Lord did they make up for it.
4. Rome (continued Greek science but founded little of their own, if this were engineering or administration they would be no.1
4.5 Cold war Russia (mainly rocketry and mathematics)
5. China
6. Khalifa ( I assume this means caliphate)

I wouldn't even go that far, 1robin. Islamic sources were more custodians of knowledge than inventors and experimenters. They have a few shining stars, but, alas, not many.

If it were about medicine Islam would be closer to the top but not science.

I've always seen the majority of their medical contributions in a macabre Josef Mengele sort of way, with these fellows hacking infidels to pieces in ways they would never consider (or received permission to) doing to fellow Muslim. Were infidels the ancient equivalent of lab rats?

 

[1robin]

I wouldn't even go that far, 1robin. Islamic sources were more custodians of knowledge than inventors and experimenters. They have a few shining stars, but, alas, not many.

I agree in large measure here. However I have heard many times that they made advances in mathematics and cosmology and I know they did in medicine but for the life of me I cannot remember any break though they made that I ever used in engineering nor as a basis of any. I do not know how much they did but they never mentioned them in school and they seldom appear on any list of greats. I spend so much time pointing out Islam's faults I was perhaps trying to find something to balance a few of them out with. Good to hear from you again.

I've always seen the majority of their medical contributions in a macabre Josef Mengele sort of way, with these fellows hacking infidels to pieces in ways they would never consider (or received permission to) doing to fellow Muslim. Were infidels the ancient equivalent of lab rats?

I have always heard they were innovators in medicine but will look into it a bit more. You got sources for this last claim, I am interested in what they actually did instead of the hype they got because everyone else in the dark ages was standing still (but not for long). You know a post like this will be given nothing but cry's of bias by now I believe. As the agent always said "It is inevitable".

 

[Quagmire]

How do I turn this thing off?

If you're talking about your mouth, I have no idea.

If you're talking about your mind, I have a few suggestions, but voicing any of them would be a rule violation.

Looks like you're on your own.

 

[YmirGF]

I agree in large measure here. However I have heard many times that they made advances in mathematics and cosmology and I know they did in medicine but for the life of me I cannot remember any break though they made that I ever used in engineering nor as a basis of any. I do not know how much they did but they never mentioned them in school and they seldom appear on any list of greats. I spend so much time pointing out Islam's faults I was perhaps trying to find something to balance a few of them out with. Good to hear from you again.

I would point you towards the writings of Bernard Lewis. Sop up a few of his books and things should become a bit clearer. Prof. Lewis doesn't shrink from praise, but neither does he quail before offering criticism.

I have always heard they were innovators in medicine but will look into it a bit more. You got sources for this last claim, I am interested in what they actually did instead of the hype they got because everyone else in the dark ages was standing still (but not for long). You know a post like this will be given nothing but cry's of bias by now I believe. As the agent always said "It is inevitable".

This and that, really. Most of it hinges on the cultural dictates for burying the dead Muslims in that part of the world. The Muslim must be buried as soon as possible after a time consuming funerary process. Non-Muslims would have no such built-in protection from going under the knife of these "investigators". What I mean is dissecting a body, especially in the early stages of the "art", would have been a long a tedious task - especially if one was stopping to make notes. Likewise it is unlikely that Muslim leaders would have tolerated the mutilation of their dead. Dead infidels, otoh, were at least serving a purpose and also were a dime a dozen. Just sayin'...

 

[1robin]

If you're talking about your mouth, I have no idea.

If you're talking about your mind, I have a few suggestions, but voicing any of them would be a rule violation.

Looks like you're on your own.

Thank God. Told you miracles were real. You have already violated every standard worth having but I report no one, not even staff.

 

[1robin]

I would point you towards the writings of Bernard Lewis. Sop up a few of his books and things should become a bit clearer. Prof. Lewis doesn't shrink from praise, but neither does he quail before offering criticism.

I will look him up.

This and that, really. Most of it hinges on the cultural dictates for burying the dead Muslims in that part of the world. The Muslim must be buried as soon as possible after a time consuming funerary process. Non-Muslims would have no such built-in protection from going under the knife of these "investigators". What I mean is dissecting a body, especially in the early stages of the "art", would have been a long a tedious task - especially if one was stopping to make notes. Likewise it is unlikely that Muslim leaders would have tolerated the mutilation of their dead. Dead infidels, otoh, were at least serving a purpose and also were a dime a dozen. Just sayin'...

That is a logical idea but before I could use it for anything I will have to look it up to make sure what could logically occur actually did in enough cases to be used by me in the future. Thanks for the info, I had never thought about this before.

 

[FearGod]

I certainly have problems with what people have done in the name of my faith but not with God or the Bible. terrible things have been done in the name of Christ but I believe Christ was sinless, the unique son of God, and savior. In fact I know he is.

So do you bash Islam because you want people to realize that Jesus is God and christianity is the truth,why you don't bash Judaism,Hinduism,Buddhism ...etc.

Why you keep bashing Islam ?

I did not say they were false nor that I did not want to believe them. I said they were arbitrary and I could not figure out what the point behind them was.

If you believe that a building can rise without a foundation then you may accept that modern science didn't rise on the strong foundation of the muslims scientific achievments.

No I am no scientist. I have a math degree but barely made it. I work on military electronic war fighting equipment. I however do know quite a bit about science history, military history, and theology/philosophy.

i wonder how an educated person as you are can't realize the effect of muslim civilization on our modern life.

If you look up the greatest works of science history you will find Principia probably at the top on it but I can't find one that has Alhazen on it. I went to optics engineering school and did not do so well but that work was never mentioned and it is a secular university. However lets say it is perfectly true. Is discovering a few basic facts about optics a reason for claiming Islam founded science. Especially since most of science was founded long before anyone ever heard of Islam, and a hole in a box is not the foundation of the camera, it is a hole in a box. Cameras are 90% chemistry not optics at least the first ones were, now they are 90% electronics and 10% optics. BTW principia the greatest scientific work ever written was written by a man who wrote more on Christianity than science.

A hole in a box. :biglaugh:

i like the way you contempt such a great discovery by a muslim scientist.

so what do you think of the modern muslim scientist Ahmed Zewail

the evolutionary and revolutionary developments of microscopic imaging are overviewed with a perspective on origins. From Alhazen's camera obscura, to Hooke and van Leeuwenhoek's two-dimensional optical micrography, and on to three- and four-dimensional (4D) electron microscopy, these developments over a millennium have transformed humans' scope of visualization.

Reference: Micrographia of the twenty-first century: from camera obscura to 4D microscopy. - Abstract - Europe PubMed Central

The new technique, dubbed four-dimensional (4D) electron microscopy, was developed in the Physical Biology Center for Ultrafast Science and Technology, directed by Ahmed Zewail, the Linus Pauling Professor of Chemistry and professor of physics at Caltech, and winner of the 1999 Nobel Prize in Chemistry - See more at:

Caltech 4D Microscope Revolutionizes the Way We Look at the Nano World | Caltech

It absolutely was not. The foundations of science already were old before anyone ever heard of Islam. The thing they are most famous for is Algebra yet the Egyptians, Greeks, and Romans used it and used it in many cases to do far greater things than Islam ever did long before Islam was even a word. Islam only originated the word for it.

Show me any reputable source that says the foundation of our modern civilization was due to the achievements of Greeks and Pharaohs .

I read it. Interesting but not even a millionth of what you would need to claim what you have been. I studied for over 4 years. I work for a Phd in information theory, one cousin has Phd in industrial engineering, one a masters in mechanical engineering, my brother is a national merit scholarship winner and had 3.95 in computer engineering, my father worked on Apollo and space shuttle. Not one of them used anything a Muslim invented that I can think of. Every family gathering for years all we talk about is work or school and never has anything a Muslim did been mentioned. We use things the Egyptians and/or Chinese invented, the Greeks added to, the Romans advanced, primarily the Christian Europeans codified and standardized, and the Americans perfected. I am sure a few Muslim contributions were in the mix but not crucial. If you wish I can list most of the fundamental foundations used in modern practical science and engineering. Muslims had their day but were not foundational or essential to at the very least what is being built using science today.

That is laughable.

Science isn't a work of one day'.

UNBIASED SOURCE
Recent research paints a new picture of the debt that we owe to Arabic/Islamic mathematics. Certainly many of the ideas which were previously thought to have been brilliant new conceptions due to European mathematicians of the sixteenth, seventeenth and eighteenth centuries are now known to have been developed by Arabic/Islamic mathematicians around four centuries earlier. In many respects the mathematics studied today is far closer in style to that of the Arabic/Islamic contribution than to that of the Greeks

Reference : Arabic mathematics

i am just wondering how you studied engineering without the use of Mathematics.

Listen your are just out of your depth. I already knew most of what your links claimed and know what it actually means. Every day I use Rubidium gas oscillators, GPS military tracking equipment, DACs, smart Multiplexors, $250,000 spectrum analyzers, plus many many more scientific instruments most people never see. I know about practical science, engineering, and it's history. Islam had it's day. It was nothing all extraordinary but they did contribute but what they contributed was generally just steps, not foundations nor huge breakthroughs. I am speaking I general and I am sure a few exceptions exist but the big players in science were.

1. Greece
2. European Christians.
3. Modern Americans.
4. Rome.
5. Egypt.
6. China.
7. Islam.

Some may go up or down a block or two but that is a reasonable hierarchy of achievement.

i was saying the foundation of science,but not science itself.

Science is a very broad field and it did never came from vacuum but through gradual progress otherwise we should have it thousands of years ago,so it had took thousands of years for humans to reach to what we have today.

Electricity and the flow of current and the electronic circuits that developed to manage , control and amplify it besides the electromagnetic field,microwave and frequency due to the current flow are all new dicoveries but aren't the foundation of science.

 

[Quagmire]

Thank God. Told you miracles were real. You have already violated every standard worth having but I report no one, not even staff.

That's OK: I've seen 4 or 5 things I could have reported you for in this thread alone and I let them slide too.

I don't worry about personal attacks against me when they're coming from someone who doesn't have any other way of dealing with the truth.