Was Muhammad a good man?

[1robin]

So do you bash Islam because you want people to realize that Jesus is God and christianity is the truth,why you don't bash Judaism,Hinduism,Buddhism ...etc.

That is a good question. Judaism is true in large part and in not a very large threat (for lack of a better word), Hinduism is cultural and so ingrained for so long it is also not a significant threat. I have debated them all but I concentrate on Islam because it is number 2, easily proven incorrect, but mostly because in my time it has been so utterly destructive.

Why you keep bashing Islam ?

I "bash" everything I think false. I even bash scientific fantasy more than Islam. However scientists who are wrong do not blow up twin towers or deny Israel's right to exist. Islam is no more wrong than many others but it far more destructive.

If you believe that a building can rise without a foundation then you may accept that modern science didn't rise on the strong foundation of the Muslims scientific achievements.

No science has very very firm foundations and I have listed many of them and it is not Islam. I posted much evidence to demonstrate that. Posts the foundations themselves instead of claims to them and we can look at them or I can if you can't. I had to know them to graduate and for my job.

i wonder how an educated person as you are can't realize the effect of muslim civilization on our modern life.

Precisely because I am educated. Post the examples instead of just the claims. I have.

A hole in a box. :biglaugh:

That is exactly what that instrument was. It was a box with a hole. It let an image be shone onto a wall or paper so it could be traced. It was not even close to a camera.

i like the way you contempt such a great discovery by a muslim scientist.

What contempt?

so what do you think of the modern muslim scientist Ahmed Zewail

the evolutionary and revolutionary developments of microscopic imaging are overviewed with a perspective on origins. From Alhazen's camera obscura, to Hooke and van Leeuwenhoek's two-dimensional optical micrography, and on to three- and four-dimensional (4D) electron microscopy, these developments over a millennium have transformed humans' scope of visualization.

Reference: Micrographia of the twenty-first century: from camera obscura to 4D microscopy. - Abstract - Europe PubMed Central

The new technique, dubbed four-dimensional (4D) electron microscopy, was developed in the Physical Biology Center for Ultrafast Science and Technology, directed by Ahmed Zewail, the Linus Pauling Professor of Chemistry and professor of physics at Caltech, and winner of the 1999 Nobel Prize in Chemistry - See more at:

Caltech 4D Microscope Revolutionizes the Way We Look at the Nano World | Caltech

You did notice Caltech not Islamabad as the source didn't you. You seem to misunderstand. I have said over and over that Islam has contributed to science and not insignificantly but relative to many others they are not in the big time. You seem to think only two choices exist the best or the worst. I claim it is somewhere in the middle and all of history and science testifies to that.

Show me any reputable source that says the foundation of our modern civilization was due to the achievements of Greeks and Pharaohs .

I will do so if you promise to concede the point if I do. Deal?

That is laughable.

Science isn't a work of one day'.

That is probably why I never claimed it was and gave foundations that go back thousands of years before anyone ever heard of Islam.

UNBIASED SOURCE
Recent research paints a new picture of the debt that we owe to Arabic/Islamic mathematics. Certainly many of the ideas which were previously thought to have been brilliant new conceptions due to European mathematicians of the sixteenth, seventeenth and eighteenth centuries are now known to have been developed by Arabic/Islamic mathematicians around four centuries earlier. In many respects the mathematics studied today is far closer in style to that of the Arabic/Islamic contribution than to that of the Greeks

Reference : Arabic mathematics

Does claiming something is unbiased make it so? I, unlike your side do not assume bias every time someone claims something I do not like. I instead try and determine if it is true and this one partially is and partially is not.Let us look at this, what are the big discoveries everything else is built on.

1. Algebra - Egyptian and Greek mainly.
2. Triginometry and geometry - Egypt some and mainly Greek.
3. Law - Roman
4. Physics - Christian Europe.
5. Calculus - Christian Europe.
6. Linear Alg - I have no idea.
7. Medicine - Greek, Islamic, Christian Europe and America.
8. Warfare - Greek, Roman, Europe and by far the greatest American.
9. Construction - Roman
10. Computational mathematics - Russia, Christian Germany, Christian America.
11. Flight - a little Chinese and Islamic, majority Christian America.
12. Gunpowder - Chinese, Christian Europe.
13. Naval construction. Greek, Roman, Christian Europe, Christian America.
14. Nuclear - A little Christian Germany, mostly Christian America.
15 Space travel - A little Christians German, Russia, Christian America.

There a few minor exceptions and maybe I left out a thing or two but these are the big players in the big areas.

I am just wondering how you studied engineering without the use of Mathematics.

What are you talking about? I have a degree in math and studied and work in engineering. Not one Muslim was ever mentioned in 6 years of college in those areas.

i was saying the foundation of science,but not science itself.

Sow as I.

Science is a very broad field and it did never came from vacuum but through gradual progress otherwise we should have it thousands of years ago,so it had took thousands of years for humans to reach to what we have today.

Yes, different aspects were began in different cultures and added to by others. Islam is in the adding on part not the began part and did only middle ground stuff. A chief complaint of Islamic science is that they rarely did anything even with what they developed. You gave a link to a guy who was into optics but Newton not he created all the most meaningful optical inventions known.

Electricity and the flow of current and the electronic circuits that developed to manage , control and amplify it besides the electromagnetic field,microwave and frequency due to the current flow are all new dicoveries but aren't the foundation of science.

I agree. Islam was neither at the beginning and seldom reached the later stages but had some part in the middle like almost every culture has. The big originators and perfectos were who I have stated not Islam. I work in these fields every single day and almost every field you mentioned was originated by a Christian like Faraday, etc... and a few atheists. I have a degree in math, studied engineering, and work in military electronics I have to know what I claimed or they would not pay me.

 

[1robin]

That's OK: I've seen 4 or 5 things I could have reported you for in this thread alone and I let them slide too.

I don't worry about personal attacks against me when they're coming from someone who doesn't have any other way of dealing with the truth.

Fine, uneasy truce it is. Is the circus over then? How is it you started this anyway? What in the world did I do to inspire this obsession?

 

[FearGod]

That is a good question. Judaism is true in large part and in not a very large threat (for lack of a better word), Hinduism is cultural and so ingrained for so long it is also not a significant threat. I have debated them all but I concentrate on Islam because it is number 2, easily proven incorrect, but mostly because in my time it has been so utterly destructive.

I "bash" everything I think false. I even bash scientific fantasy more than Islam. However scientists who are wrong do not blow up twin towers or deny Israel's right to exist. Islam is no more wrong than many others but it far more destructive.

That is Islamophobia. :yes:

No science has very very firm foundations and I have listed many of them and it is not Islam. I posted much evidence to demonstrate that. Posts the foundations themselves instead of claims to them and we can look at them or I can if you can't. I had to know them to graduate and for my job.

Any historian knows very well the miserable estate of Europe in the medieval ages and the progress of Muslims in science.

i don't know what you get from denying such simple known fact

Precisely because I am educated. Post the examples instead of just the claims. I have.

Read history.

That is exactly what that instrument was. It was a box with a hole. It let an image be shone onto a wall or paper so it could be traced. It was not even close to a camera.

So it is the film and/or the memory and not the obscura.
Do you know that camera is an Arabic word.

What contempt?

i mean belittling

You did notice Caltech not Islamabad as the source didn't you. You seem to misunderstand. I have said over and over that Islam has contributed to science and not insignificantly but relative to many others they are not in the big time. You seem to think only two choices exist the best or the worst. I claim it is somewhere in the middle and all of history and science testifies to that.

Did i say Islam made it all ?

I will do so if you promise to concede the point if I do. Deal?

if unbiased sources,then go for it.

That is probably why I never claimed it was and gave foundations that go back thousands of years before anyone ever heard of Islam.

The foundation is what was present at the moment.

In the dark ages of Europe,the strong foundation of science was by the muslim side.

When the Islamic Empire collapsed and entered it's dark age,Europe maintained and added to science.

So it is reversed.

Does claiming something is unbiased make it so? I, unlike your side do not assume bias every time someone claims something I do not like. I instead try and determine if it is true and this one partially is and partially is not.Let us look at this, what are the big discoveries everything else is built on.

1. Algebra - Egyptian and Greek mainly.
2. Triginometry and geometry - Egypt some and mainly Greek.
3. Law - Roman
4. Physics - Christian Europe.
5. Calculus - Christian Europe.
6. Linear Alg - I have no idea.
7. Medicine - Greek, Islamic, Christian Europe and America.
8. Warfare - Greek, Roman, Europe and by far the greatest American.
9. Construction - Roman
10. Computational mathematics - Russia, Christian Germany, Christian America.
11. Flight - a little Chinese and Islamic, majority Christian America.
12. Gunpowder - Chinese, Christian Europe.
13. Naval construction. Greek, Roman, Christian Europe, Christian America.
14. Nuclear - A little Christian Germany, mostly Christian America.
15 Space travel - A little Christians German, Russia, Christian America.

There a few minor exceptions and maybe I left out a thing or two but these are the big players in the big areas.

i call it bull crap here.

What are you talking about? I have a degree in math and studied and work in engineering. Not one Muslim was ever mentioned in 6 years of college in those areas.

Why no one muslim in your 6 years of college,there are many muslim professors teaching in USA,among them was Egypt president Morsi

Sow as I.

exactly

Yes, different aspects were began in different cultures and added to by others. Islam is in the adding on part not the began part and did only middle ground stuff. A chief complaint of Islamic science is that they rarely did anything even with what they developed. You gave a link to a guy who was into optics but Newton not he created all the most meaningful optical inventions known.

Do you mean by guy,the professor Ahmed Zewail.

If so,then i think that you think of yourself greater than him.

I agree. Islam was neither at the beginning and seldom reached the later stages but had some part in the middle like almost every culture has. The big originators and perfectos were who I have stated not Islam. I work in these fields every single day and almost every field you mentioned was originated by a Christian like Faraday, etc... and a few atheists. I have a degree in math, studied engineering, and work in military electronics I have to know what I claimed or they would not pay me.

They shoudn't pay you,if i might say.

You are spending and wasting all your time on bashing Islam instead of enriching your knoweledge in science.

 

[Monotheist 101]

You are spending and wasting all your time on bashing Islam instead of enriching your knoweledge in science.

I guess some people get a kick out of it..what a waste of space.

 

[FearGod]

I guess some people get a kick out of it..what a waste of space.

indeed,including myself.

 

[YmirGF]

That is Islamophobia. :yes:

Actually, it's not, but what do facts matter eh?

Any historian knows very well the miserable estate of Europe in the medieval ages and the progress of Muslims in science.

And the very best of them will explain that it was not widespread, but rather, centred in pockets.

i don't know what you get from denying such simple known fact

Probably because it is a distortion of "such simple known fact".

Read history.

I have. Quite a bit, actually. I'm very careful not to get snowed by Muslim writers who paint a whitewashed version of events either. Though contributions by Muslims to our modern understanding was influential, it wasn't as ground-breaking as some would have us believe. I am willing to toss in an olive-branch for mathematics.

In the dark ages of Europe,the strong foundation of science was by the Muslim side.

What I find amusing is that to reach its zenith, the intellectuals setup camp in Andalusa and prospered there for quite some time until Ferd and Izzy came and upset the show, that is. What I find fascinating is that the intellectuals (left) did not simply setup camp somewhere else in the Muslim world. Given that they did not is indicative about my comments about "pockets" being correct. The knowledge certainly wasn't widespread and as Europe awoke from the Dark age that Muslim influence dwindled at an alarming rate. My guess is that Islamic dogma inspired intellectuals, at first, and then later bound them in theological chains they could not escape.

When the Islamic Empire collapsed and entered it's dark age,Europe maintained and added to science.

It was certainly a bit more than merely "added to science", Feargod. There was a literal explosion in thinking in intellectual circles that quickly left the Muslim influence far behind. New areas of scientific investigation opened up and that acceleration has quite literally never stopped. The core difference is that the Europeans shared information at actually put it to use, unlike Muslim scholars who mainly acted as custodians.

So it is reversed.

A teeny bit of an understatement. It wasn't reversal, per se, but rather, an explosion into a new understanding. There never was a similar explosion, across the board, in the Islamic world.

You are spending and wasting all your time on bashing Islam instead of enriching your knoweledge in science.

It sounds more like science is his day job, exposing Islamic over-reach is merely a hobby at night.

 

[Lien]

I think he was a great man and those who insult him should be punished because of "disturbing the peace of the community"

 

[1robin]

I think he was a great man and those who insult him should be punished because of "disturbing the peace of the community"

He and his followers disturb the peace of the world and have since he crawled out of that cave thinking he was possessed.

 

[1robin]

That is Islamophobia. :yes:

You one bizarre bird Mr. FearGod. I give you many things I debate and for one reasons and yet you think that is proof I am unfairly picking on your particular one in the 4 or 5 I mentioned. I give it probably much less attention than it's number 2 in numbers status and it's number 1 in violence against every other culture on Erath it seems. You have Islamophibia-phobia.

Any historian knows very well the miserable estate of Europe in the medieval ages and the progress of Muslims in science.

I have granted and even volunteered that information myself dozens of times. However the middle ages were not the golden ages of science. Islam is somewhere in the middle of the pack, there is nothing exceptional about their contribution to anything but a little in medicine and a lot in terrorism. You do realize the humans existed several thousand years before Islam was ever heard of and created all 7 wonders without them don't you? You realize that the world kept creating and building things no one could have imagined without any need of anything Islam did long after Islam had faded away to the mess it's in now?

i don't know what you get from denying such simple known fact

It's my field not yours, I have given far more evidence than you even attempted. Your simply wrong and apparently brainwashed IMO. I know what the facts are I had to in order to graduate college and get paid to do engineering integration work on the most advanced military equipment in the world.

Read history.

Read far more than you have apparently. If all your going to do is assert crap I know very well to be wrong without a single example of it being true this is meaningless. I have posted the lists of the greatest scientists in history, I have posted the greatest breakthroughs in history, I have posted the cultures that made great strides in science. You have not. Your in denial. If Islam was such a fountain of knowledge why is where ever its practiced such a complete mess today. Where were all their great inventions when they attacked and were demolished by Israel's military that was at best 1/10th their size over and over again. Israel being 1/6 of 1% of the land in the middle East has almost all the major modern scientific accomplishments in the area.

So it is the film and/or the memory and not the obscura.
Do you know that camera is an Arabic word.

Islam stuck Arabic words on many things they did not invent like Algebra. Here is what your site says: He also was the first to describe the camera obscura—a box with a hole in it that captures an image for the purpose of drawing it precisely.

If you think a box with a hole in it is the first camera then a triangle piece of plastic and some string was the first stealth fighter. That's another point If Allah is pouring out scientific knowledge on Muslim's why are we going to the moon, curing Cancer with sound waves, building stealth Bombers, atom smashers, electron microscopes and Islam is in constant civil war. My boss is going to Saudi Arabia tomorrow and I will be going in a few months because they bought a test system we made because they could not build one and they apparently can't even fix one.

i mean belittling

Calling something that is little or small, little or small is perfectly appropriate. This every is picking on us stuff has become an epidemic.

Did i say Islam made it all ?

Yes you did. I said they are not a huge player in the history of science and you said I claimed they did nothing. So I have two choices according to you Islam did everything or nothing. The truth is they are about average for a developed culture.

if unbiased sources,then go for it.

No problem but I need to nail you down first so ambiguity does not allow to try and wiggle out. I claim that the foundations of Western society are Israel, Athens, and Rome. I claim the culture that had more impact on science than anyone else at least in foundational science was Greece. I claim the US has done more modern science than anyone else. I claim that Christians have done more for science than any other group over all. Pick one of these and I will provide the proof.

The foundation is what was present at the moment.

That is the opposite of foundation. Foundation is what is laid first that everything else is built on. The foundation of a house is not what your working on at the moment it is what was first laid. Where do you get this stuff?

In the dark ages of Europe,the strong foundation of science was by the muslim side.

They founded nothing about science. The reason they did anything is unlike Europe the preserved Greek and even Chinese learning that existed long before Muhammad did and they took the next few steps. That is it, Europe was going backwards and Islam took a few next steps. The end.

When the Islamic Empire collapsed and entered it's dark age,Europe maintained and added to science.

So it is reversed.

I have no idea what the relevance is here. If you look up the fields of science themselves. Like organic Chemistry, discrete mathematics, etc..... Most of them were founded by Christians. There might 1 or 2 founded by Muslims but I can't think of any. You want me to provide the lists?

i call it bull crap here.

Call whatever you wish. A debate is about what you demonstrate and I can demonstrate what I claimed if you wish. I may be off on one or two, maybe a place up or down but in general that is perfectly true.

Continued:

 

[1robin]

Why no one muslim in your 6 years of college,there are many muslim professors teaching in USA,among them was Egypt president Morsi

Not where I live. That however is not what I was talking about. I had to know the founders of everything I had to do. People like Ptolemy, Descartes, Euripides, Faraday, Hoyle, Maxwell, in fact here is a list.

1Isaac Newtonthe Newtonian RevolutionAnglican (rejected Trinitarianism, i.e., Athanasianism; believed in the Arianism of the Primitive Church)2Albert EinsteinTwentieth-Century ScienceJewish3Neils Bohrthe AtomJewish Lutheran4Charles DarwinEvolutionAnglican (nominal); Unitarian5Louis Pasteurthe Germ Theory of DiseaseCatholic6Sigmund FreudPsychology of the UnconsciousJewish; Atheist; Freudian psychoanalysis (Freudianism)7Galileo Galileithe New ScienceCatholic8Antoine Laurent Lavoisierthe Revolution in ChemistryCatholic9Johannes KeplerMotion of the PlanetsLutheran10Nicolaus Copernicusthe Heliocentric UniverseCatholic (priest)11Michael Faradaythe Classical Field TheorySandemanian12James Clerk Maxwellthe Electromagnetic FieldPresbyterian; Anglican; Baptist13Claude Bernardthe Founding of Modern Physiology 14Franz BoasModern AnthropologyJewish15Werner HeisenbergQuantum TheoryLutheran16Linus PaulingTwentieth-Century ChemistryLutheran17Rudolf Virchowthe Cell Doctrine 18Erwin SchrodingerWave MechanicsCatholic19Ernest Rutherfordthe Structure of the Atom 20Paul DiracQuantum Electrodynamics 21Andreas Vesaliusthe New AnatomyCatholic22Tycho Brahethe New AstronomyLutheran23Comte de Buffonl'Histoire Naturelle 24Ludwig BoltzmannThermodynamics 25Max Planckthe QuantaProtestant26Marie CurieRadioactivityCatholic (lapsed)27William Herschelthe Discovery of the HeavensJewish28Charles LyellModern Geology 29Pierre Simon de LaplaceNewtonian Mechanicsatheist30Edwin Hubblethe Modern Telescope 31Joseph J. Thomsonthe Discovery of the Electron 32Max BornQuantum MechanicsJewish Lutheran33Francis CrickMolecular Biologyatheist34Enrico FermiAtomic PhysicsCatholic35Leonard EulerEighteenth-Century MathematicsCalvinist36Justus LiebigNineteenth-Century Chemistry 37Arthur EddingtonModern AstronomyQuaker38William HarveyCirculation of the BloodAnglican (nominal)39Marcello MalpighiMicroscopic AnatomyCatholic40Christiaan Huygensthe Wave Theory of LightCalvinist41Carl Gauss (Karl Friedrich Gauss)Mathematical GeniusLutheran42Albrecht von HallerEighteenth-Century Medicine 43August KekuleChemical Structure 44Robert KochBacteriology 45Murray Gell-Mannthe Eightfold WayJewish46Emil FischerOrganic Chemistry 47Dmitri Mendeleevthe Periodic Table of Elements 48Sheldon Glashowthe Discovery of CharmJewish49James Watsonthe Structure of DNAatheist50John BardeenSuperconductivity 51John von Neumannthe Modern ComputerJewish Catholic52Richard FeynmanQuantum ElectrodynamicsJewish53Alfred WegenerContinental Drift 54Stephen HawkingQuantum Cosmologyatheist55Anton van Leeuwenhoekthe Simple MicroscopeDutch Reformed56Max von LaueX-ray Crystallography 57Gustav KirchhoffSpectroscopy 58Hans Bethethe Energy of the SunJewish59Euclidthe Foundations of MathematicsPlatonism / Greek philosophy60Gregor Mendelthe Laws of InheritanceCatholic (Augustinian monk)61Heike Kamerlingh OnnesSuperconductivity 62Thomas Hunt Morganthe Chromosomal Theory of Heredity 63Hermann von Helmholtzthe Rise of German Science 64Paul EhrlichChemotherapyJewish65Ernst MayrEvolutionary Theoryatheist66Charles SherringtonNeurophysiology 67Theodosius Dobzhanskythe Modern SynthesisRussian Orthodox68Max Delbruckthe Bacteriophage 69Jean Baptiste Lamarckthe Foundations of Biology 70William BaylissModern Physiology 71Noam ChomskyTwentieth-Century LinguisticsJewish atheist72Frederick Sangerthe Genetic Code 73LucretiusScientific ThinkingEpicurean; atheist74John Daltonthe Theory of the AtomQuaker75Louis Victor de BroglieWave/Particle Duality 76Carl Linnaeusthe Binomial NomenclatureChristianity77Jean PiagetChild Development 78George Gaylord Simpsonthe Tempo of Evolution 79Claude Levi-StraussStructural AnthropologyJewish80Lynn MargulisSymbiosis TheoryJewish81Karl Landsteinerthe Blood GroupsJewish82Konrad LorenzEthology 83Edward O. WilsonSociobiology 84Frederick Gowland HopkinsVitamins 85Gertrude Belle ElionPharmacology 86Hans Selyethe Stress Concept 87J. Robert Oppenheimerthe Atomic EraJewish88Edward Tellerthe BombJewish89Willard LibbyRadioactive Dating 90Ernst Haeckelthe Biogenetic Principle 91Jonas SalkVaccinationJewish92Emil KraepelinTwentieth-Century Psychiatry 93Trofim LysenkoSoviet GeneticsRussian Orthodox; Communist94Francis GaltonEugenics 95Alfred Binetthe I.Q. Test 96Alfred KinseyHuman Sexualityatheist97Alexander FlemingPenicillinCatholic98B. F. SkinnerBehaviorismatheist99Wilhelm Wundtthe Founding of Psychologyatheist100Archimedesthe Beginning of ScienceGreek philosophy

That is the top 100 scientists of all time. You see any Muslim's there might be 1 or 2 at best?
100 Scientists Who Shaped World History
That site has nothing to do with theology so it is not biased.

Do you mean by guy,the professor Ahmed Zewail.

If so,then i think that you think of yourself greater than him.

What the heck are you talking about. First that guy was educated at a Greek and US university not an Islamic one. Second what he did was concerning a very very tiny part in a field founded by Lavoisier, Pasteur, and other non-Muslims. It is like a Muslim invented a spark and your claiming he created nuclear fusion. Third I hate chemistry and never claimed to be any good at it and what I think of myself was never the issue nor mentioned. I wish you would keep that crap out of the debate. He could run circles around me in Chemistry and the names I gave could run circles around him.

They shoudn't pay you,if i might say.

I earn every penny my friend. What I am working on is the most unpredictable erratic piece of super-complex garbage I hope to ever see. I hate this thing.

You are spending and wasting all your time on bashing Islam instead of enriching your knoweledge in science.

I spent 6 years in college 12 in secondary schools, 9 in the military on a carrier, and 20 on the job. I have all he science I can stand and tell you the truth I do not even like it. I wish I could go back and study theology or philosophy.

Now I have given you list after list that proves my claims in detail. The facts are so massively one sided (my side) that you may want to decide if this is worth discussing further. However it is your choice.

 

[1robin]

I guess some people get a kick out of it..what a waste of space.

Apparently no one gets a kick out of providing evidence for what they claim because I am the only one doing it. Yes a discussion of Islam's contribution to overall science is a waste of space but I did not bring it up.

 

[Lien]

He and his followers disturb the peace of the world and have since he crawled out of that cave thinking he was possessed.

Be careful while you insult him in front of me .

 

[1robin]

Be careful while you insult him in front of me .

Are you threatening me? or was this some weird joke?

 

[Lien]

Are you threatening me? or was this some weird joke?

Nope , I'm just warning you , I dont warn for the second time .

Dont be cocky behind the computer . It doesnt become a civilized human being.

 

[1robin]

Nope , I'm just warning you , I dont warn for the second time .

Dont be cocky behind the computer . It doesnt become a civilized human being.

I am not the won who's faith in the prophet is so insecure they can't take truthful criticism. My prophet forgave those who killed him, he did not kill poets who wrote unflattering stories about him or beheaded Jews until he was exhausted.

Let me do you a favor. I am a veteran of two wars with Islam which were some of the most lopsided and easy victories in US history. I do not think your threats are going to have the slightest effect on me.

SO:

Instead of doing I wish to do, I will do as Christ (not Muhammad) suggests we do. I forgive whatever it is that is driving your comments and leave you with it. Hostility is the worst defense of Islam's peacefulness possible. I am done with you. Selah,

 

[Bismillah]

I am a veteran of two wars with Islam which were some of the most lopsided and easy victories in US history.

For anyone interested in mutual and productive dialogue, this sentence says it all. There is nothing fruitful to discuss here.

قل بما شئت في مسبة عرضي *** فسكوتي عن اللئيم جواب

ما أنا عادم الجواب ولكن *** ما من الأسد أن تجيب الكلاب

‘Say what you wish in abuse of me,

For my silence towards the idiot is indeed an answer.

I am not at a loss for a response but rather,

It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs.’

- Imam al-Shafi’i radiallahu 'anhu

 

[voiceoftheshres]

Depends what you mean by good, Muhammad was undoubtedly a good war lord, a good general. But does he rank as morally good? Who is to judge, not you or I. But of what we know of his life it does not stand out as morally praiseworthy and some of his actions seem morally reprehensible

 

[Lien]

I am not the won who's faith in the prophet is so insecure they can't take truthful criticism. My prophet forgave those who killed him, he did not kill poets who wrote unflattering stories about him or beheaded Jews until he was exhausted.

Let me do you a favor. I am a veteran of two wars with Islam which were some of the most lopsided and easy victories in US history. I do not think your threats are going to have the slightest effect on me.

SO:

Instead of doing I wish to do, I will do as Christ (not Muhammad) suggests we do. I forgive whatever it is that is driving your comments and leave you with it. Hostility is the worst defense of Islam's peacefulness possible. I am done with you. Selah,

I dont care who is you , I dont care what is your religion , I dont care what you think about me .

I dont insult others' religions and things valued by others .... I want the same thing for my values .

You dont have to love my religion but this does not mean you can insult . You live together muslims in your country , so your state allow us to live at there . In this instance you cant act disrespectfully .

I lived together other people from different religions for long time and still I live . We have never harm each other because we have never disrespect each other .

I dont know what you have lived in muslim countries but we're not bad people , but if you provoke us deliberately you cant blame us of being bad people .

 

[YmirGF]

I dont know what you have lived in muslim countries but we're not bad people , but if you provoke us deliberately you cant blame us of being bad people .

So, in other words, treat Muslims with respect or they will behave badly. Is this supposed to be rational?

 

[1robin]

I dont care who is you , I dont care what is your religion , I dont care what you think about me .

I dont insult others' religions and things valued by others .... I want the same thing for my values .

You dont have to love my religion but this does not mean you can insult . You live together muslims in your country , so your state allow us to live at there . In this instance you cant act disrespectfully .

I lived together other people from different religions for long time and still I live . We have never harm each other because we have never disrespect each other .

I dont know what you have lived in muslim countries but we're not bad people , but if you provoke us deliberately you cant blame us of being bad people .

I am not interested in continuing this dialogue. I will even let you get the last word in so you will feel better. I will however continue to speak what I and most of the world finds to be true about Muhammad and Islam. Shalom,