Was Muhammad a good man?

[Monotheist 101]

For anyone interested in mutual and productive dialogue, this sentence says it all. There is nothing fruitful to discuss here.

قل بما شئت في مسبة عرضي *** فسكوتي عن اللئيم جواب

ما أنا عادم الجواب ولكن *** ما من الأسد أن تجيب الكلاب

‘Say what you wish in abuse of me,

For my silence towards the idiot is indeed an answer.

I am not at a loss for a response but rather,

It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs.’

- Imam al-Shafi’i radiallahu 'anhu

:bow:

 

[1robin]

For anyone interested in mutual and productive dialogue, this sentence says it all. There is nothing fruitful to discuss here.

قل بما شئت في مسبة عرضي *** فسكوتي عن اللئيم جواب

ما أنا عادم الجواب ولكن *** ما من الأسد أن تجيب الكلاب

‘Say what you wish in abuse of me,

For my silence towards the idiot is indeed an answer.

I am not at a loss for a response but rather,

It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs.’

- Imam al-Shafi’i radiallahu 'anhu

That is usually what those who have no answer do. Then they attempt to make it look like their having no answer was because they were so wise. Lions have answered dogs where lions have came into contact with dogs. However I see no lions in Islam and no dogs in Christianity. Jesus had answers when challenged and Muhammad had a sword and both used them often.

 

[Monotheist 101]

That is usually what those who have no answer do. Then they attempt to make it look like their having no answer was because they were so wise. Lions have answered dogs where lions have came into contact with dogs. However I see no lions in Islam and no dogs in Christianity. Jesus had answers when challenged and Muhammad had a sword and both used them often.

[youtube]He82NBjJqf8[/youtube]
Who Let the Dogs out??- Baha men Original version - YouTube

 

[Pastek]

opcorn:

 

[1robin]

[youtube]He82NBjJqf8[/youtube]
Who Let the Dogs out??- Baha men Original version - YouTube

Sorry Monotheist, I am on a government server and can't watch Utube. You are one of the better Muslim debaters here. Why have you been so quiet? You usually put up a better case than all these threats and assertions.

 

[Monotheist 101]

Sorry Monotheist, I am on a government server and can't watch Utube. You are one of the better Muslim debaters here. Why have you been so quiet? You usually put up a better case than all these threats and assertions.

I dont trust the government tapping into my computer..I always access webpages from behind a VPN..lets me download heaps of legal stuff . I think you should give this program a go Hotspot Shield - Download should sort out your youtube problem.

Honestly I cant be bothered having the same discussion over and over more so one that lacks a mutual respect and acknowledgement of each others beliefs, I believe religion is meant for much more than useless bickering and puffing up, What are we so proud of?, we do not choose where we are born, be it America or Iraq.

I have also been busy writing an essay on what caused the cold war, Its interesting to see how history can be re-written over and over in such a short space of time..

 

[Lien]

I am not interested in continuing this dialogue. I will even let you get the last word in so you will feel better. I will however continue to speak what I and most of the world finds to be true about Muhammad and Islam. Shalom,

You can speak whatever you want to speak , but you cant insult .

You can just insult behind your computer .

 

[Lien]

So, in other words, treat Muslims with respect or they will behave badly. Is this supposed to be rational?

Treat everyone with respect those who live with you in the same country , under the same rights . If they're bad people , then why you allow them to live with you , if they're not why you insult ? Nonsense .

 

[1robin]

You can speak whatever you want to speak , but you cant insult .

You can just insult behind your computer .

I tell what I have found in years of study to be the truth independent of whether it is liked by others. Insult implies intent. I have no intent to offend yet I will tell the truth as best as I honestly can determine it even if it offends at least in a debate setting. What is this constant everybody is being mean to Islam stuff? It is an epidemic. It is your side (even if you think they are not actually Muslims, I can't know your right and they say the same about the peaceful Muslims) that is blowing up churches, schools, buses, denying Israel the right to exist, shooting rockets from hospitals at children, kidnapping women and sniping at civilians across borders, crashing planes into thousand of innocents, etc ad infinitum. At the very least you should easily understand why Islam has a terrible reputation. We have even saved many Islamic nations, cultures, and groups dyeing in the process and have nothing but hate to show for it (I have lost friends who were killed while holding fire so as to not endanger civilians). I will tell the truth as best I can determine it and if that offends you, you are not in the right place.

 

[1robin]

Treat everyone with respect those who live with you in the same country , under the same rights . If they're bad people , then why you allow them to live with you , if they're not why you insult ? Nonsense .

Respect is earned not demanded.

 

[Monotheist 101]

Respect is earned not demanded.

Respect is mutual or there is none..ever heard you got to give respect to get respect?

 

[1robin]

I dont trust the government tapping into my computer..I always access webpages from behind a VPN..lets me download heaps of legal stuff . I think you should give this program a go Hotspot Shield - Download should sort out your youtube problem.

I have an outside network but it takes a lot of work to route it over to my desk. I am not worried about them getting into my computer. They literally block that site.

Honestly I cant be bothered having the same discussion over and over more so one that lacks a mutual respect and acknowledgement of each others beliefs, I believe religion is meant for much more than useless bickering and puffing up, What are we so proud of?, we do not choose where we are born, be it America or Iraq.

Respect is earned not demanded. That would make sense if you never commented. However sniping personal commentaries without any evidence is not conducive to respect. That is what the terrorists do, only they use bullets instead of words. If you don't think it worth debating me then why post things to me at all?

I have also been busy writing an essay on what caused the cold war, Its interesting to see how history can be re-written over and over in such a short space of time..

I am an amateur military historian so let me offer my two sense and see if you agree. Seeds of mistrust were sewn between the US, England and Russia during WW2 (even though without us Russia would have ceased to exist then). After the war the US and Russia were the two bad boys and no one else was close. They were communist and we were freedom loving democracy. They tried to spread communism and we democracy. There was a lack of dialogue between them and both interpreted the silence as threatening. We fought proxy wars and directly threatened mutual destruction if the other attacked. That recipe has only one result , cold war. Of course there are a billion details but hat is the big stuff IMO. Agree or not? Why are you writing that paper?

 

[1robin]

Respect is mutual or there is none..ever heard you got to give respect to get respect?

I disagree with all of that. If I grant respect to something that does not deserve it I am lying. Lying many times is conducive to harmony but unless lives are on the line I will resist doing it. Respect given without merit makes that respect meaningless. Again respect must be earned not demanded. You can demand civility and in a debate I have been as civil as anyone could reasonably demand. Debate is inherently a conflict but supposedly a civil won. I could give Muhammad some respect as a pure military leader. If I gave him any as a prophet or a servant of God it would not be true and only contrived and therefor a lie so I will not do so. Civility as long as others allow me to give but respect only when earned. Do you actually disagree with this?

 

[Lien]

Please someone delete my membership , I'm bored of ignorant people .

 

[1robin]

Please someone delete my membership , I'm bored of ignorant people .

If that was true it did not require posting it.

 

[FearGod]

You one bizarre bird Mr. FearGod. I give you many things I debate and for one reasons and yet you think that is proof I am unfairly picking on your particular one in the 4 or 5 I mentioned. I give it probably much less attention than it's number 2 in numbers status and it's number 1 in violence against every other culture on Erath it seems. You have Islamophibia-phobia.

i didn't say that you have islamophibia as i know you are a brave man behind the computer and an engineer for the most sophisticated war machines in the world.

But bashing Islam for thinking that it provokes violence is kind of islamophebia.

I have granted and even volunteered that information myself dozens of times. However the middle ages were not the golden ages of science. Islam is somewhere in the middle of the pack, there is nothing exceptional about their contribution to anything but a little in medicine and a lot in terrorism. You do realize the humans existed several thousand years before Islam was ever heard of and created all 7 wonders without them don't you? You realize that the world kept creating and building things no one could have imagined without any need of anything Islam did long after Islam had faded away to the mess it's in now?

i said to you many times where is your sources and evidences,your opinion is biased and then is unbelievable.

Sorry that is the truth,you have nothing but just bla..bla..bla

It's my field not yours, I have given far more evidence than you even attempted. Your simply wrong and apparently brainwashed IMO. I know what the facts are I had to in order to graduate college and get paid to do engineering integration work on the most advanced military equipment in the world.

You have already told me for the hundred time that you are an engineer for the most sophisticated machines in the world ,but what that to do with history.

History says that Europe was in the dark ages when the Islamic Empire wasn't.

Should i change the facts of the history to please you.

Read far more than you have apparently. If all your going to do is assert crap I know very well to be wrong without a single example of it being true this is meaningless. I have posted the lists of the greatest scientists in history, I have posted the greatest breakthroughs in history, I have posted the cultures that made great strides in science. You have not. Your in denial. If Islam was such a fountain of knowledge why is where ever its practiced such a complete mess today. Where were all their great inventions when they attacked and were demolished by Israel's military that was at best 1/10th their size over and over again. Israel being 1/6 of 1% of the land in the middle East has almost all the major modern scientific accomplishments in the area.

You didn't offer any source to prove any of the nonsense that you have pointed to.

Just show me any reliable source and then i'll discuss it with you,but your own words,sorry,i don't believe your own words even if you are an engineer,oh sorry not ordinary engineer :sorry1: but dealing also with the most sophisticated machines in the world.

Islam stuck Arabic words on many things they did not invent like Algebra. Here is what your site says: He also was the first to describe the camera obscura—a box with a hole in it that captures an image for the purpose of drawing it precisely.

So be wise enough and change those words from your dictionary and the western universities.

If you think a box with a hole in it is the first camera then a triangle piece of plastic and some string was the first stealth fighter.

Lets the picture talks and not me

That's another point If Allah is pouring out scientific knowledge on Muslim's why are we going to the moon, curing Cancer with sound waves, building stealth Bombers, atom smashers, electron microscopes and Islam is in constant civil war. My boss is going to Saudi Arabia tomorrow and I will be going in a few months because they bought a test system we made because they could not build one and they apparently can't even fix one.

There is no muslim country on earth nowadays.

Abû Hurayrah relates that Allah’s Messenger (peace be upon him) said: “Islam began strange, and it will become strange again just like it was at the beginning, so blessed are the strangers.” [Sahîh Muslim (1/130)]

Regarding going to work to Saudu Arabia,then that is a normal thing you are a worker and they pay money to hire you.

Will you go there if not paid ?

Saudi Arabia is among the richest countries and i think they like to relax and let others do the job,but i don't think that to be kind of slaving,but just business relationship.

Yes you did. I said they are not a huge player in the history of science and you said I claimed they did nothing. So I have two choices according to you Islam did everything or nothing. The truth is they are about average for a developed culture.

No problem but I need to nail you down first so ambiguity does not allow to try and wiggle out. I claim that the foundations of Western society are Israel, Athens, and Rome. I claim the culture that had more impact on science than anyone else at least in foundational science was Greece. I claim the US has done more modern science than anyone else. I claim that Christians have done more for science than any other group over all. Pick one of these and I will provide the proof.

What i want is a proof that refutes the effective role of muslims in science and civilization to Europe in the middle ages.

That is the opposite of foundation. Foundation is what is laid first that everything else is built on. The foundation of a house is not what your working on at the moment it is what was first laid. Where do you get this stuff?

Can you study computer science without understanding logarithm.

They founded nothing about science. The reason they did anything is unlike Europe the preserved Greek and even Chinese learning that existed long before Muhammad did and they took the next few steps. That is it, Europe was going backwards and Islam took a few next steps. The end.

They found nothing about science ,that is your words,but to me is nonsense.

I have no idea what the relevance is here. If you look up the fields of science themselves. Like organic Chemistry, discrete mathematics, etc..... Most of them were founded by Christians. There might 1 or 2 founded by Muslims but I can't think of any. You want me to provide the lists?

Change also the word (chemistry) because it is an arabic name which was introduced to Europe in the middle ages.

 

[Monotheist 101]

That would make sense if you never commented. However sniping personal commentaries without any evidence is not conducive to respect. That is what the terrorists do, only they use bullets instead of words. If you don't think it worth debating me then why post things to me at all?

Lol what have you been smoking dude? I do ignore ad skim through most of your posts, this one keeps popping up on my replies tab,which is annoying so I click on it I honestly wish this thread died ages ago, but thanks to you..it's heart still beats.

Sorry Monotheist, I am on a government server and can't watch Utube. You are one of the better Muslim debaters here. Why have you been so quiet? You usually put up a better case than all these threats and assertions.

I am an amateur military historian so let me offer my two sense and see if you agree. Seeds of mistrust were sewn between the US, England and Russia during WW2 (even though without us Russia would have ceased to exist then). After the war the US and Russia were the two bad boys and no one else was close. They were communist and we were freedom loving democracy. They tried to spread communism and we democracy. There was a lack of dialogue between them and both interpreted the silence as threatening. We fought proxy wars and directly threatened mutual destruction if the other attacked. That recipe has only one result , cold war. Of course there are a billion details but hat is the big stuff IMO. Agree or not? Why are you writing that paper?

I would argue seeds of mistrust were sewn when the US and UK tried to crush the Russian Revolution of 1918 and when Stalin signed the Soviet-Nazi pact at the start of WW2. At the end of the day it was a clash of ideologies and the uncertainty and mistrust in each other was reflected in their aggressive foreign policies. My essay is concentrated on the specific events as they unfolded towards the end of the war and the several years that followed. I also have to contrast the different approaches Historians have taken over the years, I personally agree with the new post 91 view..

This is an excerpt from an essay by John Gaddis in 1996 titled On Moral Equivalency and Cold War History.

The Enola Gay controversy focused narrowly on whether or not the United States did the right thing
in dropping atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in August 1945. Implied in it, though, is a
much larger issue: What are the moral implications of having been the only nation, so far, to use
nuclear weapons against human targets? That is where the question of alternatives comes in, and it
does so in several different ways

Im writing it for a History elective at Uni. I have to discuss how the views changed over the years from the Orthodox (Soviets want world domination) through the various revisionist, post-revisionist and finally the new post 91 interpretations of who the burden of the unnecessary quest for world domination should be placed on. Have about five hundred words and referencing left, and exactly 12 hours till its due.

 

[Monotheist 101]

I disagree with all of that. If I grant respect to something that does not deserve it I am lying. Lying many times is conducive to harmony but unless lives are on the line I will resist doing it. Respect given without merit makes that respect meaningless. Again respect must be earned not demanded. You can demand civility and in a debate I have been as civil as anyone could reasonably demand. Debate is inherently a conflict but supposedly a civil won. I could give Muhammad some respect as a pure military leader. If I gave him any as a prophet or a servant of God it would not be true and only contrived and therefor a lie so I will not do so. Civility as long as others allow me to give but respect only when earned. Do you actually disagree with this?

I am not saying respect like pull me off the street and force me to have tea and biscuits with you..lol, I think you are wrong in thinking everyone is as confrontational as yourself, it might be your military background and Americas quest for World domination which started as a my wee wee is bigger than yours contest with the Soviets,as evidenced by reports that have emerged post Cold-War. The Soviet threat was never a real one, atleast not on a global level and certainly not sustainable. Propoganda plays a big part in how the general public views an issue. The same applies now to your Islam bashing, If we had internet during the cold war I bet you would be the biggest advocate against the Soviets and accuse them of crimes they did not intend to commit. The essays criteria is specifically how the American and Soviet historians recorded and perceived the events of the war and what their plans were, reports which could only be contrasted once the war was over. Basically the orthodox view was a load of military hogwash fed to the public, Amazingly alot of people still hold that view.

I dont know man, If I debate a Hindu on here I will be respectful of their deities regardless of whether I think they are a joke, Its called people skills, get with it.

 

[1robin]

i didn't say that you have islamophibia as i know you are a brave man behind the computer and an engineer for the most sophisticated war machines in the world.

Let me see what is wrong here.

1. I never claimed to be brave.
2. You have no idea whether I am or not.
3. I never claimed to be an engineer.
4. You have no idea what I am.
5. What I work on is classified and I can't describe it but it's war record is a little less than 200 kills and 0 losses.

But bashing Islam for thinking that it provokes violence is kind of islamophebia.

Let's just pretend all those surah's about cutting off heads, hands, and feet are not in the Quran and forget that Muhammad killed hundreds and ordered the death of thousands. Even if that never occurred, can you honestly blame any modern person for picking up the paper every day and seeing a Muslim that blew something up and achieved nothing but death and resentment. Even if they are not truly Muslim's and this same thing had not been going on almost daily since Muhammad started it. Can you really not understand that Islam's problems are caused by those claiming to be Muslims. I must know what level of denying reality we are dealing with here. I am running short of time so I will get to the rest later. Have a good day and think on this a bit.

 

[Monotheist 101]

Muhammad killed hundreds and ordered the death of thousands. Even if that never occurred

Do you think it was Moses who ordered the cruel punishments in the Old Testament?