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Was Muhammad a good man?

What is your opinion on Muhammad?

  • He was a great man and those who insult him must be punished!

    Votes: 60 27.9%
  • He was a great man, but people are free to insult him

    Votes: 47 21.9%
  • He was not a good man, but we should respect him because I believe in respecting other religions

    Votes: 23 10.7%
  • He was a terrible man and we should condemn his awful actions!

    Votes: 85 39.5%

  • Total voters
    215

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
:biglaugh:

Do you call that an effective evidence. :areyoucra
I have to agree with FearGod on this one. FaithFreedom.org is a rather well known anti-Islam site and should not be cited for reference. It is more advisable to use the authentic Islamic sites. Trust me when I say that one can neuter a lot of FearGod's suppositions with those authentic Islamic "scholarly" references, so there's no need to stoop to using FaithFreedom.

:run:

Granted though, perusing Islamic sites is often very, very, very tedious.
 
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Satnaam

Conquer your mind
Ali Sina does not invent Hadiths or facts. He gives references unlike you. Where is the proof that Muhammad didn't marry ten years after Khadija? If you say something then prove it. How come no Muslim in the world has been able to defeat Ali Sina in a debate? He has challenged Muslims to debunk his book, he will even give a reward of 50k but no one accepted it.

Muhammad was lustful man who married immediately after Khadijas death. He married a chil of 9 three years later too and had several concubines.

Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3310:
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)." what you know of the Quran (by heart)'

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88
Narrated 'Ursa:
The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).

Sahih Bukhari 5.236.
Narrated Hisham's father:
Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.

Sahih Bukhari 5.234
Narrated Aisha:
The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.

Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 41, Number 4915, also Number 4916 and Number 4917
Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin:
The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) married me when I was seven or six. When we came to Medina, some women came. according to Bishr's version: Umm Ruman came to me when I was swinging. They took me, made me prepared and decorated me. I was then brought to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him), and he took up cohabitation with me when I was nine. She halted me at the door, and I burst into laughter.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 90
Narrated Aisha:
When the Prophet married me, my mother came to me and made me enter the house (of the Prophet) and nothing surprised me but the coming of Allah's Apostle to me in the forenoon.
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
Ali Sina does not invent Hadiths or facts. He gives references unlike you. Where is the proof that Muhammad didn't marry ten years after Khadija? If you say something then prove it. How come no Muslim in the world has been able to defeat Ali Sina in a debate? He has challenged Muslims to debunk his book, he will even give a reward of 50k but no one accepted it.

Muhammad was lustful man who married immediately after Khadijas death. He married a chil of 9 three years later too and had several concubines.

Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3310:
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)." what you know of the Quran (by heart)'

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88
Narrated 'Ursa:
The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).

Sahih Bukhari 5.236.
Narrated Hisham's father:
Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.

Sahih Bukhari 5.234
Narrated Aisha:
The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.

Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 41, Number 4915, also Number 4916 and Number 4917
Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin:
The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) married me when I was seven or six. When we came to Medina, some women came. according to Bishr's version: Umm Ruman came to me when I was swinging. They took me, made me prepared and decorated me. I was then brought to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him), and he took up cohabitation with me when I was nine. She halted me at the door, and I burst into laughter.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 90
Narrated Aisha:
When the Prophet married me, my mother came to me and made me enter the house (of the Prophet) and nothing surprised me but the coming of Allah's Apostle to me in the forenoon.

So you believe all the hadith then you believe that they said he is the prophet and then by believing that all hadith are telling the truth,then you admit that you are a sunni muslim.

Congratulation,brother for accepting the sunna.
 

McBell

Unbound
So you believe all the hadith then you believe that they said he is the prophet and then by believing that all hadith are telling the truth,then you admit that you are a sunni muslim.

Congratulation,brother for accepting the sunna.
How in the sam Hades does that follow?
 

Monotheist 101

Well-Known Member
In my previous posts I have mentioned where you can find the exact references. Faithfreedom.org would be a good start for you.

"Muhammad married Safiya after murdering her father, torturing to death her husband and massacring her entire tribe. He married Juwariyah after raiding her people, massacring the men and robbing their wealth and taking the women and children as slaves. He took Rayhana, the 15 year old Jewish girl of Bani Quraiza after massacring all them men and boys who had reached puberty of her tribe and took all the women and children as slaves."

Credible Source...A+ :facepalm:

You guys pass sikhism as non-violent and peaceful..what about Dharam Yudh or Just War...examples of which are:

  • The forceful passing of a resolution to cede Water and Electricity Boards to Punjab Control in the region
  • The murder of Indian Police officers in 1982 – 1983, in revenge
  • Bhindrandales Murder of two nirinkari Gurus in 1981
  • Bombing of Cinemas in Delhi in 2005
  • Bombing of Air India Flight 182
very peaceful and a complete way of life which fails to address countless issues encountered in life..Sikhism only covers prayer and religious obligations. It has no understanding of how to interact with the real world. It has no detailed economic system, social system, or ruling system.


I think these threads are useless..the Muslims will defend Muhammad..the Muhammad Haters will copy and paste off anti-Islam websites.. I see that people are so concerned with proving others religion/worldview wrong that they forget to critically examine their own belief system for contradictions..


I could start posting from anti-sikh websites but what purpose would that serve other than gaining enmity from sikhs and further fueling this baseless resentment towards eachother..My God and your God is the same...then why do we fight over who the messenger is..we should be more concerned with understanding what that message is..


Personally I like Sikhs, they are good representative of their jolly punjabi culture and on doing a bit of research on Sikhism (not intensive tho) seem to come across as true monotheists..altho I am confused by a few hindu concepts that contradict my understanding of God which have been incorporated into Sikhism..I dont understand why Sikhs speak so badly about Muhammad and Islam on RF tho..are you only supposed to be good to other Sikhs? Is that what Guru Nanak taught you? Or wasnt it quite the contrary and his travel companions Kabir and Baba Farid were muslim(sufi)? In person I have never felt this resentment surface but guess hiding behind the veil of the internet turns cowards into ballsy lions..what sad is that they support their arguments with biased sources..




 
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FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
I have to agree with FearGod on this one. FaithFreedom.org is a rather well known anti-Islam site and should not be cited for reference. It is more advisable to use the authentic Islamic sites. Trust me when I say that one can neuter a lot of FearGod's suppositions with those authentic Islamic "scholarly" references, so there's no need to stoop to using FaithFreedom.

:run:

Granted though, perusing Islamic sites is often very, very, very tedious.

My words is clear,if you believe that everything which have been said in the hadiths to be correct and telling the truth then you have to believe as well that Muhammed PBUH is the messenger of God as the ahadith confirmed him to be so.

So this thread is silly because he is using evidences which is known to be a myth.
 
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Monotheist 101

Well-Known Member
I love it when Muslims try to defend Islam by bringing up the same disgusting acts in other cultures and religions. Two wrongs don't make a right, if your religion is binding forever then your God would've made the laws forever as well, they are not to be changed, that's the main thing about Islam. Muhammad was supposedly a role model for all men and all generations to come. It's now outdated and you're all starting to look like idiots. Most Christians and Jews realized this a long time ago and started to give up on their religions, some still follow it, albeit a more reformed and completely change dversion, and thus not really following the religion any more.

You seem to have a problem with religion in general..If something makes sense to you doesn't necessarily mean everyone will share the same opinion..I believe in respecting everyone regardless of culture/religion/race..What are you trying to prove with this thread? It just comes across as attention seeking and needy..If you believe something or not..good for you..dont push it on to others..thats the exact same strategy used by "religions" that you despise..stop seeking validation of your worldview and expecting everyone to accept it..comes across as childish and immature.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
My words is clear,if you believe that everything which have been said in the hadiths to be correct and telling the truth then you have to believe as well that Muhammed PBUH is the messenger of God as the ahadith confirmed him to be so.
You misunderstand me, FearGod. I don't believe in the legitimacy of the Qur'an, let alone the hadiths. My personal belief is not required! All I have to be able to do is read the opinions of Muslim "scholars" who may very well take a different position to what you are saying.

So this thread is silly because he is using an evidences which is known to be a myth.
Which is why I recommend people use ONLY authentic Muslim sources and not just cut and paste hadith numbers from anti-Islam sites due to the nature of isnad in "Hadith Science".
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
You misunderstand me, FearGod. I don't believe in the legitimacy of the Qur'an, let alone the hadiths. My personal belief is not required! All I have to be able to do is read the opinions of Muslim "scholars" who may very well take a different position to what you are saying.

Which is why I recommend people use ONLY authentic Muslim sources and not just cut and paste hadith numbers from anti-Islam sites due to the nature of isnad in "Hadith Science".

No one can be sure about the credibility of each hadith and whether if it was true or false,and what about if Mohammed PBUH was married for only a single woman will that convince the hindus to convert to Islam or the atheist to convert to Islam.

So go east or west,north or south,this thread is waste of time.
 

F0uad

Well-Known Member
When looking into history one has to remove ones own social reference, when one is examining a other culture. Because its unfair to superimpose ones own prejudice upon a other culture, you have to recognize each culture has its own tradition and its own way of doing things and if you try to force upon them your own ideals and own principles and your own acceptability then what you end up doing is being unjust towards a other tradition.

So its important to recognize it was a normal occurrence in that time, there is no mentioning that people thought it was strange. 1433 years ago it was normal to marry at a very young age and a girl became women much faster. I am pretty sure most of the people here on the forum had grand-grand mothers who also married at a very young age now imagine this being 1400 years ago in a dessert were it was a normal practice am i going to judge your grand-grand fathers for marrying her?
 
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McBell

Unbound
When looking into history one has to remove ones own social reference, when one is examining a other culture. Because its unfair to superimpose ones own prejudice upon a other culture, you have to recognize each culture has its own tradition and its own way of doing things and if you try to force upon them your own ideals and own principles and your own acceptability then what you end up doing is being unjust towards a other tradition.

So its important to recognize it was a normal occurrence in that time, there is no mentioning that people thought it was strange. 1433 years ago it was normal to marry at a very young age and a girl became women much faster. I am pretty sure most of the people here on the forum had grand-grand mothers who also married at a very young age now imagine this being 1400 years ago in a dessert were it was a normal practice am i going to judge your grand-grand fathers for marrying her?
The only way this will work in your favor is if you are also going to claim that Gods word through his prophets are not eternal.
Meaning that they do not apply to all times, but only for a specific time and place.
 

sunni56

Active Member
The only way this will work in your favor is if you are also going to claim that Gods word through his prophets are not eternal.
Meaning that they do not apply to all times, but only for a specific time and place.
That's false because God or His Prophet never mentioned or said that people should marry young girls anyway. They never said this in the first place.
 

F0uad

Well-Known Member
The only way this will work in your favor is if you are also going to claim that Gods word through his prophets are not eternal.
Meaning that they do not apply to all times, but only for a specific time and place.
Are you suggesting what your grand-grand father did was immoral?
And your comparison is flawed i can name several reasons why if you are interested.

O and a Atheist judging a culture about morals and values how funny, on what basis do you find it to be immoral?





“I wanted to know the best of the life of one who holds today an undisputed sway over the hearts of millions of mankind… I became more than ever convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days in the scheme of life. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet the scrupulous regard for pledges, his intense devotion to his friends and followers, his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and in his own mission. These and not the sword carried everything before them and surmounted every obstacle. When I closed the second volume (of the Prophet’s biography), I was sorry there was not more for me to read of that great life.”

- Ghandi.



"The lies (Western slander) which well-meaning zeal has heaped round this man (Muhammad) are disgraceful to ourselves only."

-Thomas Carlyle in 'Heroes and Hero Worship and the Heroic in History,' 1840



My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world’s most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the secular and religious level. ...It is probable that the relative influence of Muhammad on Islam has been larger than the combined influence of Jesus Christ and St. Paul on Christianity. ...It is this unparalleled combination of secular and religious influence which I feel entitles Muhammad to be considered the most influential single figure in human history.

- Michael Hart in 'The 100, A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons In History,' New York, 1978.
 
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McBell

Unbound
That's false because God or His Prophet never mentioned or said that people should marry young girls anyway. They never said this in the first place.
and yet Allah had no problems with Mohammed not only having multiple wives, but having sex with nine year olds.

So what you are saying is that even today, Allah has no problems with having multiple wives or having sex with nine year olds.
 

McBell

Unbound
Are you suggesting what your grand-grand father did was immoral?
If my great grandfather was having sex with nine year olds, then yes, he was immoral.
Regardless of his beliefs/claims of it being sanctioned by god.

And your comparison is flawed i can name several reasons why if you are interested.
Feel free to point out the flaws in my "comparison".

O and a Atheist judging a culture about morals and values how funny, on what basis do you find it to be immoral?
If you feel that having sex with nine year olds is immoral, then you are in direct conflict with Allah.
 

sunni56

Active Member
So what you are saying is that even today, Allah has no problems with having multiple wives or having sex with nine year olds.
You have claimed that God's word through his Prophet cannot be interpreted as being eternal due to the issue of marriage at a young age. Yet when I pointed out that neither God nor His Messenger have even suggested that it is what should be done, instead of admitting that you made an error, you are trying to divert the topic. :facepalm:
 

McBell

Unbound
You have claimed that God's word through his Prophet cannot be interpreted as being eternal due to the issue of marriage at a young age. Yet when I pointed out that neither God nor His Messenger have even suggested that it is what should be done, instead of admitting that you made an error, you are trying to divert the topic. :facepalm:
I understand now.
Mohammed was not a prophet of example.
What he did is not reflective of Allah, only what he said.

And no, I did not mention his marriage to her, just his having sex with her at the age of nine.

Now, who is the one trying to divert?
 

sunni56

Active Member
I understand now.
Mohammed was not a prophet of example.
What he did is not reflective of Allah, only what he said.

And no, I did not mention his marriage to her, just his having sex with her at the age of nine.

Now, who is the one trying to divert?
No, you clearly stated God's word through His Prophet cannot be read eternally due to the marriage of young girls issue. When I explained that such 'word' about such marriages don't exist, instead of acknowledging your mistake, you're giving me backtalk. Now if you're going to try and press home your point, you need to provide textual evidence that God told people to marry 9-year old girls.
 

McBell

Unbound
No, you clearly stated God's word through His Prophet cannot be read eternally due to the marriage of young girls issue. When I explained that such 'word' about such marriages don't exist, instead of acknowledging your mistake, you're giving me backtalk. Now if you're going to try and press home your point, you need to provide textual evidence that God told people to marry 9-year old girls.
I understand your "Do As I Say, Not As I Do" defense.
However, I already explained my meaning.
Your being stuck on the semantics is not my problem.

To my knowledge Mohammed never said to marry or have sex with nine year olds.
 

Aquitaine

Well-Known Member
May i ask all of you one question ?

What are your effective evidences that Mohammed PBUH married Aisha at age 6,5 or 2.

To be honest, I initially only heard it from other Muslims. Also, there are plenty of Muslims in this thread who use the excuse of "But it was a cultural norm at the time". So it appears to be a well-accepted fact.

Are you denying that he married and had sex with a child?
 
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