Was Muhammad a good man?

[1robin]

When did Quagmire become a Muslim? Quaggy? :help:

I am afraid I am not smart enough to appreciate this response. Is this a family guy reference?

 

[YmirGF]

muslims don't worship the prophet as you claimed in your post which shows your blatant ignorance about Islam.

Though Muslims do not outright worship Muhammad, they certainly have made him into a demigod, whose every action is a perfect example for mankind to follow. We call this hero worship and is not to be confused with worship, as in praying to deity. In that sense it is a perfectly acceptable descriptor.

 

[FearGod]

LOL riiiight, because of Atheism. I'm sure there is no Child Abuse or Rape going on in religious communities. I'm sure Saudi Arabia has one of the lowest rates of Rape, for example .

i'll show later on the stories of child abuse worldwide and which of course because of evil and lack of faith otherwise it's genetics.

Virtually every Muslim on this topic has stated "but it was the culture at the time". Also, the fact that Aisha brought her toy dolls with her after moving in with Mohammad is quite telling.
Some Muslims here on RF have even tried to justify it to me, by saying he waited for three years until she was 9 before he married her, as if that's somehow any better.

Yes,it was nice dolls,i guess it was china made "new boy".

LOLWUT!? He is held as the pinnacle of Human character, qualities and values. If you draw a cartoon of him, some Muslims go insane and people end up murdered.

You said some muslims,but for me i don't care even if you want to make a carton of God.

 

[FearGod]

Though Muslims do not outright worship Muhammad, they certainly have made him into a demigod, whose every action is a perfect example for mankind to follow. We call this hero worship and is not to be confused with worship, as in praying to deity. In that sense it is a perfectly acceptable descriptor.

People are free to follow the act of one person that they loved,many have singers and actors as their role models following their hair cuts and even their underwear.

 

[F0uad]

I will not tolerate accusations of lying. Our discussion has ended.

Not my problem you are the one who not did hes research.

 

[1robin]

Not my problem you are the one who not did hes research.

Prove it or withdraw the claim.

 

[Aquitaine]

i'll show later on the stories of child abuse worldwide and which of course because of evil and lack of faith otherwise it's genetics.

Hehe, I look forward to seeing your thread on how Atheism is the root cause of child abuse.

Yes,it was nice dolls,i guess it was china made "new boy".

You said some muslims,but for me i don't care even if you want to make a carton of God.

That may be the case for you, but that still doesn't take away from the fact that many Muslims do (as YmirGF said) engage in hero worship with Mohammad, to the point where one cannot even draw a simple cartoon depicting him, without fearing violence or persecution.

 

[McBell]

To start off there are conflicting reports on the age of Aicha(ra) because people back then didn't knew the exact age but lets in sake of argument hold those ages.

So much for the Hadiths...

What if your grand-grand mother was 12 or 14? Is he then still immoral? Because i am pretty sure your ancestors in the medieval period were around that age and the more the dates go back the younger she becomes.

*yawn*
I do not know how many times you have to be told that yes, I find it immoral regardless of who it is doing it.

Totally irrelevant to the discussion but i am used to it by Atheist to throw god into the picture.

You wish it was totally irrelevant.
But your skill in denial is well known.

You made the suggestion that the authorities gave us such commandment.

I clarified what I meant.
Now it is up to you to keep up with the conversation.

How is this a reply? On what basis are you using the word IMMORAL?

Hmmm.
good point.
You do appear to have a rather skewed definition of the word.

"WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
immoral
adj 1: deliberately violating accepted principles of right and
wrong [ant: moral]
2: not adhering to ethical or moral principles; "base and
unpatriotic motives"; "a base, degrading way of life";
"cheating is dishonorable"; "they considered colonialism
immoral"; "unethical practices in handling public funds"
[syn: base, immoral]​

I would say that 1000 years ago marrying someone who matured was not immoral and i hope you can try to stop imposing your acceptability on other people's traditions and certainly on the ones that lived in a desert 1433 years ago. Men and women lived shorter, women became faster adults and both sides wanted it. I am pretty sure if you opened a history book you would find 99% of the history immoral by your standards.

Like I said before in this thread, I understand the why you take the "Do As I Say, Not As I Do" defense.

Interesting how not a single Muslim in this thread has stated that having sex with nine year olds is immoral.
Instead they sing the cultural differences song.

So I flat out ask the Muslims in this thread:

Is having sex with a nine year old immoral?
​

 

[FearGod]

Religion teachs morality and any person who do harm is IMHO is irreligious and evil one.

Lets start

By Devidutta Tripathy and Frank Jack Daniel

NEW DELHI (Reuters) - Angry crowds demonstrated in India's capital on Saturday after a five-year-old girl was allegedly raped, tortured and kept in captivity for 40 hours, reviving memories of last December's brutal assault on a woman that shook the country.
Police arrested a man they accuse of the attack from the eastern state of Bihar, and brought him back to New Delhi for interrogation. Doctors say the girl suffered severe injuries and bruising, including to her neck and genitalia.

Reference : Protests build in New Delhi after child rape

 

[Aquitaine]

Religion teachs morality and any person who do harm is IMHO is irreligious and evil one.

Lets start

By Devidutta Tripathy and Frank Jack Daniel

NEW DELHI (Reuters) - Angry crowds demonstrated in India's capital on Saturday after a five-year-old girl was allegedly raped, tortured and kept in captivity for 40 hours, reviving memories of last December's brutal assault on a woman that shook the country.
Police arrested a man they accuse of the attack from the eastern state of Bihar, and brought him back to New Delhi for interrogation. Doctors say the girl suffered severe injuries and bruising, including to her neck and genitalia.

Reference : Protests build in New Delhi after child rape

Pardon my ignorance, but I fail to see why this post is relevant. Out of curiosity though, I would rather like you to answer Mestemia's question in his post:

Interesting how not a single Muslim in this thread has stated that having sex with nine year olds is immoral.
Instead they sing the cultural differences song.

So I flat out ask the Muslims in this thread:Is having sex with a nine year old immoral?

 

[FearGod]

Pardon my ignorance, but I fail to see why this post is relevant. Out of curiosity though, I would rather like you to answer Mestemia's question in his post:

i said it before and i'm saying it once again.

What are their(your) evidences that the hadith was saying the truth.

And if in a case that atheists believe the ahadith to be telling the truth then they have as well to believe that the prophet is the messenger of God as the same ahadith claimed it to be the truth too.

But i didn't have any reply but just a silly arguments.

 

[Aquitaine]

i said it before and i'm saying it once again.

What are their(your) evidences that the hadith was saying the truth.

And if in a case that atheists believe the ahadith to be telling the truth then they have as well to believe that the prophet is the messenger of God as the same ahadith claimed it to be the truth too.

But i didn't have any reply but just a silly arguments.

So you're a "Quran only" Muslim?

Also, care to answer Mestemia's question, pretty please?

 

[Monotheist 101]

LOLWUT!? He is held as the pinnacle of Human character, qualities and values. If you draw a cartoon of him, some Muslims go insane and people end up murdered.

You are misguided if you think the Prophet is being worshipped..Muslims are very concious about the fact that he was a Human being.
Tawhid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I think you should look up the basic principle of Islam..the one that seperates it from all the other "shaky" monotheist religions.

If you guys prove Muhammad was a "pedo" or vice versa what purpose does it accomplish? To really understand whether the controversial traditions regarding Aichas age hold true or have the same desired classification of pedo...you will have to first understand the political situation after the death of the prophet.(there are extremley contrasting accounts, not regarding the Prophet but rather his companions), there was a civil war Aicha was the leader of one side..she is also the source of these Hadith..You have to understand the different tribes and the ruling classes and the internal battle for influence.. before you can even begin to make an educated "guess" on what really happend..I personally do not depend on the Hadith as my source of Islam..they are complimentary material which some may have added to or removed from for their own personal reasons.

Regardless Islam (submission to one God) which holds is basis in Tawhid has survived through the generations..I donot place importance in the traditions..especially those which have been fabricated and cannot be found in original arabic texts..The lessons of the Quran and the picture it paints of him..is the clearest most precise picture of a Monotheist God in any religion today.

If you guys pay attention to the negative traditions, why not look into the not so negative ones and understand what Islam is truly about..Islam has never been about Osama or his pack of third world fanatics..it has been about Tawhid and monotheism.


After the death of the Prophet (spiritual leader) there was confusion and all sorts of agendas but the first Caliph of Islam Abu Bakr(who is insulted in many traditions) said, "To proceed, if anyone amongst you used to worship Muhammad, then Muhammad has passed away, but if (anyone of) you used to worship Allah, then Allah is Alive and shall never die. Allah said, "And Muhammad is but a messenger; the messengers have come before him; if then he dies or is killed will you turn back upon your heels? And whoever turns back upon his heels, he will by no means do harm to Allah in the least and Allah will reward the grateful." (3.144)
Abu Bakr - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Islam is about submitting ourselves to God..not pedophilia or terrorism as most post renaissance sources will have you believe.

Paaji

To the bearded Bro(hopefully you adhere to the sikhi customs ..
You pass of Islam as a fake religion..what basis do you do that on? I would love to open up a one on one and discuss..whether Guru Nanak or Muhammads Monotheism is clearer and free from error when it paints it despcription of the Monotheist creator..feel free to open up a thread..but the debate should be based purely on Monotheism not on the character of Muhammad or your Gurus because biased sources on each side can be found and the argument really doesnt accomplish much in our understanding of eachothers cultures..

Peace
God Bless

 

[dynavert2012]

http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.regcon&contentid=20130422162428

this is a nice testimony for who really was hating the prophet and when he knew who's he, he repents and admits the truth

 

[Aquitaine]

You are misguided if you think the Prophet is being worshipped..Muslims are very concious about the fact that he was a Human being.
Tawhid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I think you should look up the basic principle of Islam..the one that seperates it from all the other "shaky" monotheist religions.

If you guys prove Muhammad was a "pedo" or vice versa what purpose does it accomplish? To really understand whether the controversial traditions regarding Aichas age hold true or have the same desired classification of pedo...you will have to first understand the political situation after the death of the prophet.(there are extremley contrasting accounts, not regarding the Prophet but rather his companions), there was a civil war Aicha was the leader of one side..she is also the source of these Hadith..You have to understand the different tribes and the ruling classes and the internal battle for influence.. before you can even begin to make an educated "guess" on what really happend..I personally do not depend on the Hadith as my source of Islam..they are complimentary material which some may have added to or removed from for their own personal reasons.

Regardless Islam (submission to one God) which holds is basis in Tawhid has survived through the generations..I donot place importance in the traditions..especially those which have been fabricated and cannot be found in original arabic texts..The lessons of the Quran and the picture it paints of him..is the clearest most precise picture of a Monotheist God in any religion today.

If you guys pay attention to the negative traditions, why not look into the not so negative ones and understand what Islam is truly about..Islam has never been about Osama or his pack of third world fanatics..it has been about Tawhid and monotheism.


After the death of the Prophet (spiritual leader) there was confusion and all sorts of agendas but the first Caliph of Islam Abu Bakr(who is insulted in many traditions) said, "To proceed, if anyone amongst you used to worship Muhammad, then Muhammad has passed away, but if (anyone of) you used to worship Allah, then Allah is Alive and shall never die. Allah said, "And Muhammad is but a messenger; the messengers have come before him; if then he dies or is killed will you turn back upon your heels? And whoever turns back upon his heels, he will by no means do harm to Allah in the least and Allah will reward the grateful." (3.144)
Abu Bakr - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Islam is about submitting ourselves to God..not pedophilia or terrorism as most post renaissance sources will have you believe.

To the Sikh Bro..
You pass of Islam as a fake religion..what basis do you do that on? I would love to open up a one on one and discuss..whether Guru Nanak or Muhammads Monotheism is clearer and free from error when it paints it despcription of the Monotheist creator..feel free to open up a thread..but the debate should be based purely on Monotheism not on the character of Muhammad or your Gurus...

Peace
God Bless

I use the word "worship" to mean (as YMirGF pointed out) hero worship. Mohammad isn't the God of Islam, and I never claimed that.

Still, the fact that even depicting him in a cartoon is enough to ignite internation chaos with Embassies being burnt down and cartoonists being threatened with death (not to mention others being murdered) is very telling.

Out of curiosity, care to answer Mestemia's question?

 

[Aquitaine]

*edit*

LOL - how hard can it be to answer whether or not you support Child Marriage? I'm only asking...... jeeez.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Monotheist 101

Much like the Japanese and Asians in general as of today. Sexual behavior is acceptable at the occurrence/passing of puberty and I actually know a few girls who have been married at "questionable" ages.
At the occurrence of the onset of puberty a "child" is no longer prepubescent and hence forth the definition of pedophile no longer applies. The technical term at hand is hebephilia. I may oppose sex in general but speaking on a purely biological and semi-ethnocultural level I do not find it appalling to have sexual relations at such an age. Although marriage is a whole other issue altogether and far more serious than two people performing coitus.

So Monotheist 101 I do accept the Islamic opinion(to an extant) on the acceptability of marriage and sexual behavior.

 

[Aquitaine]

*edit*

You spent more effort typing out that last post, than a simple "yes" or "no" to the question. That's very telling. But nevermind, if you do not wish to answer the question, then I will ask it no more. Just don't complain when I criticize Mohammad and the ferocity with which many Muslims admire him.

Peace.

 

[Monotheist 101]

You spent more effort typing out that last post, than a simple "yes" or "no" to the question. That's very telling. But nevermind, if you do not wish to answer the question, then I will ask it no more. Just don't complain when I criticize Mohammad and the ferocity with which many Muslims admire him.

Peace.

Just like you have a right to express your opinion..I will always retain the right to openly reject your uninformed opinion..you are free to preach it to your kin/trailer mates.but will get caught out looking biased and childish..whatever happened to freedom of speech? But that freedom doesnt mean you disrespect the fundamentals of the belief behind a major world religion..The Christians allow Jesus to be mocked..the muslim are so strict in their covenant with God that they saw the roots off anything that will ultimatly lead to his religion being poisoned..a religion of Tawhid..please read the wiki page

I think what is of epic importance is that we bury the hatchet on all this useless hatred concerning all theologies and religion..hatred only breeds more hatred..I say F the past..lets build a better future..

I still stand firm in my statement that you donot really understand Islam if you are worried about these hadith..Islam is about one thing only..Monotheism..and I think you and everyone should learn to respect the fact that no one can force to change the condition of anothers heart...to each his own..lets not lose our morality in the process of proving eachother wrong..rather try to disregard the negatives and promote the positives that we find in each others distinct cultures and views..that is the only way forward..otherwise I see the world crumbling upon itself in a nuclear catastrophe in the next few thousand if not hundred years..I wish we still used swords

 

[Monotheist 101]

“Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth has been made clear from error. Whoever rejects false worship and believes in God has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that never breaks. And God hears and knows all things.” (Quran 2:256)

“If it had been your Lord’s will, all of the people on Earth would have believed. Would you then compel the people so to have them believe?” (Quran 10:99)

“So if they dispute with you, say ‘I have submitted my whole self to God, and so have those who follow me.’ And say to the People of the Scripture and to the unlearned: ‘Do you also submit yourselves?’ If they do, then they are on right guidance. But if they turn away, your duty is only to convey the Message. And in God’s sight are all of His servants.” (Quran 3:20)

“The Messenger’s duty is but to proclaim the Message.” (Quran 5:99)

These statements are directed at Muslims, who have a covenant with God to follow his religion as described by the Quran..if it dont make sense to you..why bother trying to change or influence anothers belief..with the help of the internet anyone is able to make a decision these days that suits their view perfectly..why push it on others..I say let it be..

And if you guys think these terror attacks in the name of Islam have anything to do with religion than you are misguided..It has everything to do with politics and power..The religion is being used out of context and as a scapegoat to accomplish political not religious goals..IMO no religion preaches to blow yourself up and kill innocents in the process..its the devils and leaders present amongst every society which like to divide and conquer..

It doesnt matter what a person believes..everyone should act humane and treat every other living being with the respect they deserve..for being human..