Was Muhammad Schizophrenic?

[Nakosis]

That's abusive, maybe your the narccacist.

Folks diagnosed with schizophrenia are advised to take medication to help them. I don't know why that would be abusive. I'm not trying to be derogatory about schizophrenia.

 

[MonkeyFire]

Folks diagnosed with schizophrenia are advised to take medication to help them. I don't know why that would be abusive. I'm not trying to be derogatory about schizophrenia.

Yeah, but Jesus Christ is not schizophrenic.

 

[Nakosis]

Yeah, but Jesus Christ is not schizophrenic.

If you care to read the link from the OP, there is a section on Jesus.

 

[Rival]

Yeah, but Jesus Christ is not schizophrenic.

In your opinion.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

If the Qur'an were written by Muhammad, I would say it shows way too much consistency to come from a psychotic mind. Those with schizophrenia rarely talk so coherently.

Not buying into this discussion, except to add two very quick points;
Muhammad questioned his own sanity.
The Quran wasn't written by Muhammad.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I don't think medical professionals are qualified to tell people that the unusual things that happen to them are not super-natural. Their job is to identify a symptom from a big book fo disorders and then prescribe meds appropriately. Matching symptoms to treatments. Not be the judge of spiritual claims. They are bureaucrats who are not interested in the human mind - never mind spirituality. And that is rightly what they should be:

Hey Mr. Psychiatrist - I accept I match the diagnostic criteria for schizophrenia and will take those little yellow pills...

...But please don't tell me my religious beliefs are wrong and/or don't qualify as religious beliefs. Which is basically what you are doing. And as far as I can tell, you are not qualified to do this...

That's pretty far from what usually happens. Not to say there aren't outliers, etc, but...

 

[Rival]

Muhammad questioned his own sanity.

This is according to the ahadith, which are not the pinnacle of reliability. I'm aware he tried throwing himself off mountains and whatnot, and wanted Kadija to cover him after his first experience, but again we simply don't know whether these things happened.

The Quran wasn't written by Muhammad.

I said 'if'; I don't believe it was, but if it were, it's way too coherent to be the product of someone with a serious psychotic illness.

 

[February-Saturday]

Muhammad always struck me as more of Medieval Rajneesh Puram than psychotic. His experiences sound a lot like mystical experiences that are pretty common in sane mystics and spirit workers, I actually don't wholly doubt that a lot of them occurred to him.

I do think that his genuine insight sort of went to his head, though, in almost exactly the same way it happened to Rajneesh Puram.

I don't think Muhammad was even a narcissist, either. I think most people would go off the deep end if they had reason to believe they were the mouthpiece of God, and if they were surrounded by people who supported that idea.

But, no, Muhammad's spiritual experiences read more like mythologized mystical experiences. They're quite common around people who actually know what they're doing, and have been distinguished from any sort of mental illness in psychology for awhile now.

Mystical experiences were once considered a form of transient psychosis, but in lieu of recent research they normally aren't anymore as far as I know.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Along with other religious leaders, Moses, Jesus, Joseph Smith?
Isn't this a more likely explanation than divine intervention?

I can comment on Jesus and Muhammad. Moses lacks contemporaneous documents outside religious texts to support His historicity. I haven't studied Joseph Smith.

In regards the diagnosis of mental illness such as schizophrenia, in addition to having symptoms such as hallucinations and delusions, there is almost always significant impairment in social and cognitive functioning. Muhammad managed to convince a sizeable following that He was a Messenger of God, eluded capture from those who wish to destroy His movement by first arranging for a flight of his followers to Abyssinia and then to Medina. He manged to defeat HIs enemies in several battles and then went on to unite the tribes of The Arabian Peninsula. The Quran which is a record of His at least some of His communications to His followers is coherent and compelling. So the success He achieved with both uniting the tribes of the Arabian Peninsula under a new form of Abrahamic monotheism and the Quran which testifies to this monotheism are evidences of someone who was both inspired and capable.

The case for Jesus is not as compelling as for Muhammad in that His ministry only last 3 1/2 years, and the relative paucity Words within the Gospel accounts that could be reasonably attributed to His Mission. However, He managed to attract a sizeable following, communicated an innovative understanding of the Hebrew scriptures and educated His followers to such a degree that His Disciples and subsequent generations they taught, succeeded in building the largest Faith community on the planet today.

So both Muhammad and Jesus were most likely to have been inspired and capable individuals at the very least. Whether their respective claims to be a 'Messenger of God' or 'Son of God' are plausible is another story. It was highly unlikely that either experienced severe mental illness such as schizophrenia.

 

[February-Saturday]

I can comment on Jesus and Muhammad. Moses lacks contemporaneous documents outside religious texts to support His historicity. I haven't studied Joseph Smith.

In regards the diagnosis of mental illness such as schizophrenia, in addition to having symptoms such as hallucinations and delusions, there is almost always significant impairment in social and cognitive functioning. Muhammad managed to convince a sizeable following that He was a Messenger of God, eluded capture from those who wish to destroy HIs movement by first arranging for a flight of his followers to Abyssinia and then to Medina. He manged to defeat HIs enemies in several battles and then went on to unite the tribes of The Arabian Peninsula. The Quran which is a record of His at least some of His communications to His followers is coherent and compelling. So the success He achieved with both uniting the tribes of the Arabian Peninsula under a new form of Abrahamic monotheism and the Quran which testifies to this monotheism are evidences of someone who was both inspired and capable.

The case for Jesus is not as compelling as for Muhammad in that His ministry only last 3 1/2 years, and the relative paucity Words within the Gospel accounts that could be reasonably attributed to His Mission. However, He managed to attract a sizeable following, communicated an innovative understanding of the Hebrew scriptures and educated His followers to such a degree that His Disciples and subsequent generations they taught, succeeded in building the largest Faith community on the planet today.

So both Muhammad and Jesus were most likely to have been inspired and capable individuals at the very least. Whether their respective claims to be a 'Messenger of God' or 'Son of God' are plausible is another story. It was highly unlikely that either experienced severe mental illness such as schizophrenia.

I will express that it feels very bizarre to like a post that's supportive of the validity of Jesus and Muhammad as a Satanist.

At the same time, though, just flat-out calling the representative of the other team mentally ill seems so unsporting and I genuinely don't believe that it's a fair interpretation or criticism. I don't have anything against the mentally ill, either, so it would be really odd for me to sit back and watch Muhammad be dismissed as "just schizophrenic" even if I had reason to believe that he was.

I support what you're saying here. It just feels weird to admit that. I do want to add that plenty of schizophrenics can be high-functioning and even successful, but Muhammad doesn't seem to have had any sort of struggle with any form of mental illness at all.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I will express that it feels very bizarre to like a post that's supportive of the validity of Jesus and Muhammad as a Satanist.

At the same time, though, just flat-out calling the representative of the other team mentally ill seems so unsporting and I genuinely don't believe that it's a fair interpretation or criticism. I don't have anything against the mentally ill, either, so it would be really odd for me to sit back and watch Muhammad be dismissed as "just schizophrenic" even if I had reason to believe that he was.

I support what you're saying here. It just feels weird to admit that. I do want to add that plenty of schizophrenics can be high-functioning and even successful, but Muhammad doesn't seem to have had any sort of struggle with any form of mental illness at all.

This discussion is about evidence rather than belief, so I appreciate you considering both Muhammad and Jesus as any other character in history. Such support doesn't imply belief in their religious claims, rather an assessment of their talents and personal qualities and how that affected the course of their lives.

While I agree that many schizophrenics can be high functioning and successful, even without medication in some instances, I refer to the DSM IV and V manual for the diagnosis of mental disorders. An essential criteria for diagnosing schizophrenia is:

For a significant portion of the time since the onset of the disturbance, level of functioning in one or more major areas, such as work, interpersonal relations, or self-care, is markedly below the level achieved prior to the onset (or when the onset is in childhood or adolescence, there is failure to achieve expected level of interpersonal, academic, or occupational functioning).

AND

Duration: Continuous signs of the disturbance persist for at least 6 months. This 6-month period must include at least 1 month of symptoms (or less if successfully treated) that meet Criterion A (i.e., active-phase symptoms) and may include periods of prodromal or residual symptoms. During these prodromal or residual periods, the signs of the disturbance may be manifested by only negative symptoms or two or more symptoms listed in Criterion A present in an attenuated form (e.g., odd beliefs, unusual perceptual experiences).

Table 3.22, DSM-IV to DSM-5 Schizophrenia Comparison - Impact of the DSM-IV to DSM-5 Changes on the National Survey on Drug Use and Health - NCBI Bookshelf

It could be argued that both Jesus and Muhammad had a period of time between experiencing a sense of their mission through mystical experiences or the like, where they did struggle to function. Jesus spent 40 days in the wilderness and some time elapsed between Muhammad alleged having communications with the Angel Gabriel and acquiring a following beyond His wife Khadija. Whether that would meet the criteria of 'a significant proportion of time' as stipulated in DSM is doubtful but possible. So if it were psychosis it would be along the lines of a brief psychotic episode rather than schizophrenia which is much more of a long term illness. Without the course to modern treatments its hard to imagine either Muhammad or Jesus having schizophrenia and being able to function so well for extended periods of time (22 years and 3 1/2 years respectfully) when mental illness was so poorly understood.

 

[Nakosis]

I can comment on Jesus and Muhammad. Moses lacks contemporaneous documents outside religious texts to support His historicity. I haven't studied Joseph Smith.

In regards the diagnosis of mental illness such as schizophrenia, in addition to having symptoms such as hallucinations and delusions, there is almost always significant impairment in social and cognitive functioning. Muhammad managed to convince a sizeable following that He was a Messenger of God, eluded capture from those who wish to destroy HIs movement by first arranging for a flight of his followers to Abyssinia and then to Medina. He manged to defeat HIs enemies in several battles and then went on to unite the tribes of The Arabian Peninsula. The Quran which is a record of His at least some of His communications to His followers is coherent and compelling. So the success He achieved with both uniting the tribes of the Arabian Peninsula under a new form of Abrahamic monotheism and the Quran which testifies to this monotheism are evidences of someone who was both inspired and capable.

The case for Jesus is not as compelling as for Muhammad in that His ministry only last 3 1/2 years, and the relative paucity Words within the Gospel accounts that could be reasonably attributed to His Mission. However, He managed to attract a sizeable following, communicated an innovative understanding of the Hebrew scriptures and educated His followers to such a degree that His Disciples and subsequent generations they taught, succeeded in building the largest Faith community on the planet today.

So both Muhammad and Jesus were most likely to have been inspired and capable individuals at the very least. Whether their respective claims to be a 'Messenger of God' or 'Son of God' are plausible is another story. It was highly unlikely that either experienced severe mental illness such as schizophrenia.

I don't know that I characterized schizophrenia as a severe mental illness. I suspect it is more common then it is diagnosed. Nor is it necessarily debilitating.

It would encompass those who are symptomatic for 6 months or more, with an organized and relatively nonbizarre delusional system, grandiosity, often delusional narcissism, possible hallucinations, and an extremely intense feeling of being supernaturally selected for a mission. It would recognize that when this occurs in individuals with generally average-or-higher intelligence,strong communication skills, a high degree of magnetic charisma, and the ability to effectively engender empathy,these individuals may be capable of convincing or psychologically enthralling groups or populations of individuals to follow their directives for undefined periods of time. Their goals are partly or wholly based on or inspired by psychotic thought processes. These thought processes may yield beliefs that are closely related to other common societal beliefs, but they are not very amenable to reason. Affected individuals may demonstrate a preserved ability to maintain a social group, be very persuasive, and become socially elevated in a group and exercise inordinate influence over others in the group. Their beliefs may result in the sponsorship of activities that are lethal to self and others and are outside the norms for their society. Disorganization, negative psychiatric symptoms, and cognitive dysfunction are not significantly present. Affective features may be present,but are not usually debilitating. Hyperreligiosity would be a frequent accompaniment, but is not necessarily required, since extreme devotion to other socio-political belief systems or perceived extraterrestrial or supernatural forces might serve as surrogates. These individuals are capable of having extraordinary influence on individuals and society.

 

[VoidoftheSun]

Yeah, but Jesus Christ is not schizophrenic.

Well if what Christians claim about his sayings is true than he definitely was.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I don't know that I characterized schizophrenia as a severe mental illness. I suspect it is more common then it is diagnosed. Nor is it necessarily debilitating.

It would encompass those who are symptomatic for 6 months or more, with an organized and relatively nonbizarre delusional system, grandiosity, often delusional narcissism, possible hallucinations, and an extremely intense feeling of being supernaturally selected for a mission. It would recognize that when this occurs in individuals with generally average-or-higher intelligence,strong communication skills, a high degree of magnetic charisma, and the ability to effectively engender empathy,these individuals may be capable of convincing or psychologically enthralling groups or populations of individuals to follow their directives for undefined periods of time. Their goals are partly or wholly based on or inspired by psychotic thought processes. These thought processes may yield beliefs that are closely related to other common societal beliefs, but they are not very amenable to reason. Affected individuals may demonstrate a preserved ability to maintain a social group, be very persuasive, and become socially elevated in a group and exercise inordinate influence over others in the group. Their beliefs may result in the sponsorship of activities that are lethal to self and others and are outside the norms for their society. Disorganization, negative psychiatric symptoms, and cognitive dysfunction are not significantly present. Affective features may be present,but are not usually debilitating. Hyperreligiosity would be a frequent accompaniment, but is not necessarily required, since extreme devotion to other socio-political belief systems or perceived extraterrestrial or supernatural forces might serve as surrogates. These individuals are capable of having extraordinary influence on individuals and society.

It is important to be extremely careful about how we use terms such as schizophrenia, psychosis and mentally ill. It is all too easy to stigmatise and inappropriately label those whom we do not like or agree with.

Most people who have psychotic experiences do not have schizophrenia and many people with schizophrenia do not have either delusions or hallucinations. Schizophrenia as defined by DSM or the WHO ICD classification is usually a long term illness. Those with schizophrenia often place an enormous burden of health systems due to the chronicity of their illness and would usually be diagnosed after a hospital admission until the last two decades where there has been much more of an emphasis on early intervention to prevent relapses, improve education and engagement with services for patients and their families, and generally improve outcomes.

Even the paper you posted in your OP talks about psychosis as opposed to schizophrenia in its conclusion. So perhaps you really wanted to ask if Muhammad or Jesus could have had psychotic experiences which is certainly more plausible than having schizophrenia. The purpose of DSM and ICD is to enable more precise diagnoses that in turn provides important information about prognosis and treatment. The USA had an extended history of over-diagnosing schizophrenia until the advent of more robust criteria such as those outlined in DSM-III published in 1980.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

This is according to the ahadith, which are not the pinnacle of reliability. I'm aware he tried throwing himself off mountains and whatnot, and wanted Kadija to cover him after his first experience, but again we simply don't know whether these things happened.

Agreed. I mean...whilst here (RF) I try to take a 'live and let live' approach. Otherwise I end up just forever posting 'we don't know if these things happened' in relation to a whole raft of religious beliefs and theological narratives.
I guess I just meant that the conceptual thinking...that someone hearing voice could be mentally ill, rather than divinely inspired...is not new, and not unknown within Abrahamaic religions.

​

I said 'if'; I don't believe it was, but if it were, it's way too coherent to be the product of someone with a serious psychotic illness.

Well...again, my apologies, I didn't put context on my post. But no-one thinks he wrote it, far as I know. Just that he narrated it. So at the very least there is a layer between his thoughts and the words written. And...whilst I understand the Quranic view of it's inerrancy...in a non-religious sense that basically assures some level of editing or paraphrasing is occurring.

 

[MonkeyFire]

Well if what Christians claim about his sayings is true than he definitely was.

That's coming from a satist.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Mohammad was the smartest person in Arabia in his time. He blossomed out in Medina somewhat late in his life.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Along with other religious leaders, Moses, Jesus, Joseph Smith?
Isn't this a more likely explanation than divine intervention?

A man in his late 20s with paranoid schizophrenia
explained during a neurological evaluation that he
could read minds and that for years he had heard voices
revealing things about friends and strangers alike. He
believed he was selected by God to provide guidance
for mankind. Antipsychotic medications prescribed by
his psychiatrists diminished these abilities and reduced
the voices, and therefore he would not take them. He
asked, “How do you know the voices aren’t real?” “How
do you know I am not The Messiah?” He affirmed, “God
and angels talked to people in the Bible.”
Later, we reflected on what he had said. He raised
poignant questions that are rarely discussed in academic
medicine. Every day, physicians, nurses, psychologists,
and social workers alike encounter and care for people
who experience psychotic symptoms. About 1% of emergency room visits and 0.5% of all primary care visits in
the United States are related to psychotic symptoms.1,2
As many as 60% of those with schizophrenia have
religious grandiose delusions consisting of believing
they are a saint, God, the devil, a prophet, Jesus, or some
other important person.3 Diminished insight about
having a mental disorder is part and parcel of the
condition, occurring in 30%–50% of persons with schizophrenia.4 How do we explain to our patients that their
psychotic symptoms are not supernatural intimations
when our civilization recognizes similar phenomena
in revered religious figures?
Psychiatry Online

If Jesus, the Second Comming, showed up today. Would he be put on Meds?

A necessary criteria for a diagnosis of mental illness, including schizophrenia, is that one's condition makes one dysfunctional. If a person hear's God's voice, but it not dysfunctional, they are not considered mentally ill by the psychiatric field.

The real question would be, were Moses or Muhammed or Jesus made dysfunctional by their religious experiences.

The fact that there is no mental illness involved does not mean that the experiences are what they seem to be or that the information conveyed is correct.

 

[stvdv]

Was Muhammad Schizophrenic?

Along with other religious leaders, Moses, Jesus, Joseph Smith?
Isn't this a more likely explanation than divine intervention?

Whether they were schizophrenic or not we will never know for sure. So, I don't worry about it and stick to the things I do/can know.

So, for me this is a non-issue. I just follow the spiritual laws and regulations, and observe whatever I experience myself, trusting my "Self"

Even the words of a Schizophrenic, if words of Wisdom, I accept
Even the words of God, if words of untruth, I reject

That way there is never a problem for me. Sometimes I make a mistake, no problem for me. Gradually I improve.

 

[Piculet]

Muhammad questioned his own sanity

In general, that is a good sign. The insane tend to not question their sanity. The sane do.