Grandliseur
Well-Known Member
Well, if you don't see that saying Christ is not the son of God, is not the ransom, didn't die on the cross for our sakes - then I cannot help you. It is a denial of everything that Christ is supposed to be.
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Was Muhammad the final prophet?
- Thread starter Spiderman
- Start date
Magus
Active Member
The Book of the Dead commandments are actually morally superiors to the Old Testament, for example.
II. Thou shalt not commit adultery or rape.
VI Thou shalt not cause misery.
VII. Thou shalt not do any harm to man or to animals.
XIII. Thou shalt not deprive anyone of what is rightfully theirs.
IV. Thou shalt not cause terror
The Book of the Dead as an actual commandment against Rape , so where
is 'Thou Shalt not Rape' in the Quran or the Bible.
Qur'an 23:5-6
Who abstain from sex, Except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess,- for (in their case) they are free from blame,
Deuteronomy 22:28-29
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.
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Doesn't take much to see how brutal the abrahmic religions are.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
What is bizarre here is that I've never seen any Muslim scholar buy into the Bahai claims, so I'm not quite sure why they continue to beat the topic to death.
If you believe the Lliad to be inspired ten feel free to follow what it teaches. It's not like anyone says you can't.
Perhaps it is inspired, whose arguing against you on this issue? If you would like us to look specifically at this book, then I would first start by asking you to define Who is GOD? What are His attributes? (He is used out of respect, GOD has no gender)
I'd like to know that too, especially considering Muhammad pbuh didn't write the Qur'an.
Not sure why you think that. Islam teaches some 124,000 Messengers and Prophets have been sent to mankind throughout the ages. What often happens is they convey the message faithfully ie, Worship GOD alone and then over time people add and takeaway parts of the message to suit themselves for whatever reason.
Read with Chapter 4 which makes clear you are only allowed to marry what your right hand possesses. If you don't wish to read the whole Chapter titled 'Women' then read from verse 20-25 Rape is forbidden in Islam as considered a major sin.
What does Islamic law say about rape?
Magus
Active Member
A Woman is not a man's possession .
Magus
Active Member
Everyone is born out of a Mother so we are all created inside a WOMAN and thus why would you objectify your own creator .
According to both Bible and Quran, the Man was created first, THEN the Woman , thus women are 'secondary' human beings, Did Adam have a belly-button, whom fed him nutrients through his Belly Button , whom milked him and wiped his butt, did Allah wipe Adam's butt?
When you were a Baby, who wiped yours?
This is how Abrahamics treat women.
According to both Bible and Quran, the Man was created first, THEN the Woman , thus women are 'secondary' human beings, Did Adam have a belly-button, whom fed him nutrients through his Belly Button , whom milked him and wiped his butt, did Allah wipe Adam's butt?
When you were a Baby, who wiped yours?
This is how Abrahamics treat women.
Actually quite a few of the early Babi converts were Mullas and Islamic scholars.
Vahid is but one example:
Among the most unexpected of those who embraced the Cause of the Báb was a brilliant theologian who bore the title of Vahid—meaning “unique”. A trusted advisor to the Shah, Vahid had been sent to interrogate the Báb on behalf of the king, who wished to secure reliable firsthand information about the movement that was sweeping his land. Upon learning of Vahid's conversion, the Shah called for the Báb to be brought immediately to Tehran.
The Bábí Movement | What Bahá’ís Believe
Siyyid Yahya-i-Darabi (Vahid) – Bahai Chronicles
I do agree that interfaith discussions about prophecy don't tend to result in Baha'is or Muslims changing faith, anymore than discussions between Jews and Christians. The point of discussion: Muhammad being the seal of the prophet is open to differing interpretations and Muhummad isn't the final prophet just because Muslims claim He is.
Thanks for that. I don't get to talk to too many Muslims about these kind of isues so its always interesting to hear differing perspectives.
I have never been a Muslim. I grew up Christian and became a Baha'i because I believed Baha'u'llah to be the return of Christ. I later learned that the Bab claimed to fulfil the Mahdi prophecy in Shi'a Islam.
The Baha'i Faith makes a lot more sense to me than Christianity and appears much more relevant for this modern age. One problem with Christianity is being locked into a theological worldview that is inflexible and doesn't make sense. Judaism has it, and so does Islam to a certain extent IMHO.
That being said, its good to have Muslims such as yourself here on RF prepared to intelligently represent your Faith.
I've been learning a lot through this thread.
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InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
There has been many of them. Some of them were not only Muslim Scholars; but there were Ayatullah or leader of Scholars who became Bahais.
Augustus
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Found this article discussing historical differences in opinion regarding the term. The current orthodoxy was not universally agreed upon in medieval times.
Finality of prophethood in Sunni Islam
Yes Sheikhs, Imams and Khalifas may be considered Prophets in that they are supposed to hold the best manners and be upstanding members of the community in every way possible, but I didn't read any reference in that paper about Muslim Scholars ever believing a Prophet bringing New revelation from ALLAH swt would ever come after the death of Muhammad pbuh, the Final Messenger of GOD. I did skim through much of it, so may have missed such a reference, but imagine any Muslim holding such a position, unless they fancied themselves as the second coming of Jesus or Imam Mahdi.
btw the Prophet pbuh was not expecting the imminent end of days, he pbuh even explained his Community would be around for Centuries after him, Fifteen according to one Hadith I'm aware of.
Augustus
…
There's a few.
Sorry can't copy/paste them as pdf is an image.
Again, debatable, as is the question of whether or not many hadiths genuinely reflect 7th C beliefs.
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
I have read about 2/3 of the Qu'ran in English and all the Bible. You? I can see the main/most important distinction is this:
The Christian is 100% sure of salvation if they've trusted in the death and resurrection of Christ--what Christ suffered on the cross--and the Muslim has to be very religious to hope to maybe get to Heaven. Both of those positions cannot be correct.
What did Jesus pbuh say in this regard?
Mark 10:
17 And as he was setting out on his journey, a man ran up and knelt before him, and asked him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” 18 And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone. 19 You know the commandments: ‘Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and mother.’” 20 And he said to him, “Teacher, all these I have observed from my youth.” 21 And Jesus looking upon him loved him, and said to him, “You lack one thing; go, sell what you have, and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” 22 At that saying his countenance fell, and he went away sorrowful; for he had great possessions.
23 And Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, “How hard it will be for those who have riches to enter the kingdom of God!” 24 And the disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said to them again, “Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God! 25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” 26 And they were exceedingly astonished, and said to him, “Then who can be saved?” 27 Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for all things are possible with God.”
Here we can see you have to put in the effort, to strive and struggle, to follow the commandments and ultimately rely upon the mercy of GOD to obtain salvation.
This is hammered home in the later Gospel of Matthew
Matthew 5:
17 “Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them. 18 For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. 19 Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Not so different to what is taught in the Qur'an.
Kelly of the Phoenix
Well-Known Member
Or maybe what Christianity claims of Jesus is a denial of what he was.
Magus
Active Member
Why do religious use vague language, What is a Salvation? Is it a type of food, do people eat that?
You are aware that 'Salvation' derives from 'Salvs' , the Roman goddess of Well being and welfare, so every time you preach Salvation, your a pagan.
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
I apologize for using a poor word choice. You cannot save yourself from Hell. Jesus saves people from Hell and transforms them to make them ready to enter Heaven.
I'm imperfect and would ruin a utopia. That's right, I'm a born again Christian who still cannot get to Heaven--until the time when the lost (not "saved") are judged and I am transformed and made fit for Heaven.