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Was Muhammad the final prophet?
- Thread starter Spiderman
- Start date
Feeling cornered? Why not ask your Holy Spirit to tell us what was the original reading of Mark 1:1 and where did the Gospel end? If it differs from what we have today, when and why were the changes made and by whom?
Answering these convincingly would go someway to backing up your claims to having a special channel to God via this 'Holy Spirit' of yours.
DavidFirth
Well-Known Member
We do not tempt God.
Maybe Mohammed can communicate with you from the grave. But I doubt it. Christ has no grave. Try summing that up.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Even if you are right about that why are Muslim astronomers not credited with this discovery? The answer is simple. They didn't know and this was not the assumption at the time. Nice try though. Hehe. Next you are prolly going to tell me that Muhammad split the moon in two. Naw, that would be silly.
The Moon's light being reflective was first mentioned 500 B.C. some 600 years before the Qur'an. The point of bringing up the Moon's light was to show BillardsBall their comment about the Bible being more accurate than the Qur'an is incorrect.
That's not mentioned in the Qur'an. If you post the source, I'm sure I can look into it.
There's a Science Museum in America, which houses the Apollo Moon Shuttles. They have a facts page online on Apollo 11, the first manned shuttle to land on the Moon. Perhaps you can find the relevant page, (I'd give you the link, but don't want to be accused of misleading you) and answer the following questions:
What date and time did Apollo 11 leave the Lunar surface?
How much Moon rock did it bring back?
Why am I not surprised by your response. Interestingly we know the dead can't talk to us, and as you're proving even those alive in Heaven, like Enoch, Elijah, Melchizedek and Jesus pbut can't communicate anything either. The Holy Spirit too remains silent, not having uttered a single word in almost 2,000 years despite Jesus pbuh saying:
John 16:12 I still have much to tell you, but you cannot yet bear to hear it. 13 However, when the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all truth. For He will not speak on His own, but He will speak what He hears, and He will declare to you what is to come. 14 He will glorify Me by taking from what is Mine and disclosing it to you.
As you are proving, the Holy Spirit residing with Christians is a myth, and the Spirit of Truth was a human Prophet that came and indeed explained many things, whilst affirming the greatness of Prophet Jesus pbuh.
The only other candidate to come after Jesus pbuh and explained many things was Saul the Pharisee, but no Christian has ever claimed him to be the Spirit of Truth mentioned.
DavidFirth
Well-Known Member
Take your drivel and spew it in another direction, dude, you have no idea what you're talking about. Don't quote Jesus from John, you would have gladly watched John rot on a cross had it been up to you. You don't believe what John wrote because if you did you'd know John 3:17 and what it says about you.
Either show me Jesus of Nazareth's remains or kindly just shut up.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Okay, I see where you are coming from, but if you are honest you have to admit that this is pretty thin gruel, at best.
Yep. Hadith folklore. I'll pass on that though. That said, you must be aware of the fable of Muhammad splitting the moon.
July 29, 1969 at 1:57PM. I remember watching it when I was a 13 year old kid. It was exciting stuff way back then.
Not a lot. 22 kilograms.
Growing up, I was an avid fan of the US space program and even remember Kennedy's speech outlining America's plans to put a man on the moon within the decade. It was a remarkable era to grow up in. Then again, I remember listening to Dr. Martin Luther King giving his amazing, hope filled "I have a dream" speech. I get shivers just thinking about it all.
Even at 8 1/2 years old I knew this was a remarkable speech. @Quetzal and I've talked about the Mercury and Apollo projects a few times.
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Sounds similar to the Gospels that were written after Christ's death. Should we discount what Jesus said by the same reasoning?
It is the same Christ Spirit that Spoke through Muhammad.
The Bab and Baha'u'llah have also spoken of that same Spirit and the Promise of Christ is fulfilled, as also are the promises from all other Holy books including Koran and Hadith's.
It is to Baha'u'llah we must turn to find these keys of understanding.
Regards Tony
Grandliseur
Well-Known Member
Remember the subject please, "was M. the last prophet?"
In the book of Acts and other places, Christian prophets are mentioned apart from the ones we are familiar with. Thus your statement just on those grounds is invalidated. As to what Bible critics claim, it has no interest to me. I have already studied the Bible and its origin in depth. The Bible itself contains much to show us how it came to be.
Even today, I believe it is Revelation that says that speaking about Jesus inspires prophecy. So, even today there may be Christian prophets, though their word must be in accord with the written one, and be true.
Magus
Active Member
The Moon also split into two.
Narrated Abdullah bin Masud: "During the lifetime of the Prophet the moon was split into two parts and on that the Prophet said, 'Bear witness (to thus).'"
Sahih Bukhari 4:56:830
Anything is possible with LSD
Narrated Abdullah bin Masud: "During the lifetime of the Prophet the moon was split into two parts and on that the Prophet said, 'Bear witness (to thus).'"
Sahih Bukhari 4:56:830
Anything is possible with LSD
I know the topic. I'm suggesting consistency in the way arguments are used. If Muhammad can't be the last prophet because the Quran was written after his death doesn't really say a lot.
I don't follow your line of reasoning here. I'm good the NT and all it contains, but that doesn't invalidate the Quran that has come after.
How do you know there are not references to Islam in the book of revelations. Its a book allegedly written around 100 AD that concerns the future. You don't think a religion that has been around 1,400 years and on track to overtake Christianity numerically might get a mention.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Given that over the centuries Christian scholars have never thought to connect the dots from Revelations to Islam is about all I need. It's little surprise that Muslim 'scholars' would hallucinate Islam and Muhammad into Christian texts.
Augustus
…
You're probably looking at the wrong aspect of Hellenism. Greek philosophical influence is more related to Middle/Neo-Platontonist ideas rather than classical Greek Paganism.
Philo discussed concepts like the Divine Logos, in the years before Jesus for example.
People in the Islamic, Jewish and Christian traditions have sought to reconcile aspects of Greek philosophy with their faith, up to the Abbasid Golden Age and Renaissance.
I haven't really examined Christian scholarship on the book of revelations. I doubt if the Christians would have had too much interest in Islam until the crusades when their best efforts to wrestle Jerusalem from the Muslims were short lived. Some Christians are certainly interested in a possible association with Revelations and Islam now.
The Fate of Islam in Bible Prophecy | Islam | Lamb and Lion Ministries
Revelations along with the rest of the NT would not interest many Muslims who see the gospels as corrupted. There is a growing trend from other Muslims to use the NT to counter Christian arguments, and to claim fulfilment of prophecies.
That's all they are though,claim and counter claim,there have been many prophets,how many have a proven prophecy?id say none.
The book of Revelations is arguably the most difficult book in the entire bible. There is certainly no agreement amongst Christians on a correct interpretation. However the book of Daniel that was written in a similar style during the Babylonian exile, has significant sections that most Christian scholars would agree provides a meaningful narrative based on history.
Augustus
…
The Islamic Empires were majority Christian for around 400 years after the conquests, of course they had interest. Christianity wasn't a European religion.
Many Christian theologians such as Sebeos saw Islam in eschatological terms, for example in regard to the '4 beasts' of Daniel: “And behold, a fourth beast, terrible and dreadful and exceedingly strong; and it had great iron teeth; it devoured and broke in pieces, and stamped the residue with its feet... this fourth beast, which arises from the south, is the kingdom of the sons of Ishmael.”
Also John of Damascus: "There is also the superstition of the Ishmaelites which to this day prevails and keeps people in error, being a forerunner of the Antichrist."
Muhammad also seems to have been anticipating the 'hour' in the imminent future as part of his prophetic message.
The conquests later drove the iconoclastic movement in the Byzantine Empire, as they sought to consider why God had 'punished' them by allowing infidels to defeat them.
Eschatological fervour also increased as they approached the millennium of Christ's life, which many saw as a harbinger of the apocalypse. This is arguably one of the cause of the 1st Crusade, and especially the Peasants Crusade that preceded it.
In the centuries before and after the rise of Islam, eschatology was a major aspect of Abrahamic religious thought. This may have led to the rise of Islam, and the rise of Islam certainly didn't make Christians less concerned with the apocalypse.