Was Muhammad The Greatest Moral Example?

[paarsurrey]

So did the people the Persians conquered
At least one medieval Muslim historian believed the word jizya was actually derived from the Persian language.
(Not got the source to hand but have posted it before)

Thanks for the information.
It is available on many links, one is below:
Wiktionary
Etymology:
Etymology[edit]
From Arabic جِزْيَة ‎(jizya), from Persian گزید ‎(gazīd), گزیت ‎(gazīt, “poll-tax”), from Middle Persian ‎(gazīd), ‎(gazīdag, “poll-tax”), from Aramaic.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/jizya
It means it was a cultural thing in those time to do with the adversaries.
Regards

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

An example of the extortion would be Zoroastrians. They were invaded during the Sassanian Period by the muslims and ended up having to pay tax to live in their own land.

Bingo.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

So did the people the Persians conquered

At least one medieval Muslim historian believed the word jizya was actually derived from the Persian language.

(Not got the source to hand but have posted it before)

Did the Persians levy extra taxes on people specifically because they were of a different religion?

 

[NewChapter]

Muslims believe that their prophet is the greatest example of a man ever to walk this earth (this despite some also saying that all prophets are equal, but we'll put that aside for a while).

Muslims, I challenge you to prove to me that Muhammad was a better example of a human being than anyone before or after him. I am of the opinion that he was an immoral religious fanatic who practiced senseless violence.

I'll start with a couple of quotes from Ibn Ishaq, Biographer of Muhammad:

Ishaq:327 "Allah made booty lawful and good. He used it to incite the Muslims to unity of purpose. So enjoy what you have captured."

Ishaq:288 "The Quraysh said,'Muhammad and his Companions have violated the sacred month, shed blood, seized property, and taken men captive.

At-Tabari:

Tabari VIII:116/Ishaq:511 "So Muhammad began seizing their herds and their property bit by bit. He conquered home by home. The Messenger took some of its people captive, including Safiyah, and her two cousins. The Prophet chose Safiyah for himself." Tabari VIII:121/Ishaq:515 "Safiyah was brought to him, and another woman with her. Bilal led them past some of the Jews we had slain including the woman's dead husband. When she saw them, the woman with Safiyah cried out, slapped her face, and poured dust on her head. When Allah's Prophet saw her, he said, "Take this she-devil away from me!"

He had people put to death for mocking him ('Asma' bint Marwan, Abu Afak, Ka'b ibn al-Ashraf, Khalid ibn Sufyan, the list goes on).

He had more than four wives at one time (his revelations only allowed 4 wives max. he had up to 11)

He had sex with a nine year old.

He smashed all the Pagans' idols.

Allah's Apostle said, "I have been sent with the shortest expressions bearing the widest meanings, and I have been made victorious with terror (cast in the hearts of the enemy), and while I was sleeping, the keys of the treasures of the world were brought to me and put in my hand." Abu Huraira added: Allah's Apostle has left the world and now you, people, are bringing out those treasures (i.e. the Prophet did not benefit by them).

The Koran says that Mohammed sinned whereas Jesus is reputed to have been sinless.

Jesus is above Mohammed in rank.

 

[Augustus]

Did the Persians levy extra taxes on people specifically because they were of a different religion?

Not that I'm aware of, the Romans did it to the Jews though.

The paleo-Muslims didn't seem to either. Was more the standard conquered person tax, no one seemed to be aware they had been conquered by a new religion, let alone that they were paying for the privilege of being 'dhimmis'. Islamic Law is more a product of late 7th C and 8th C Syria/Iraq, than early 7th C Arabia and incorporates numerous aspects of the Persian/Roman legal systems.

"Contemporary Egyptian papyri make clear that there were a number of different taxes, but the main two were land tax and poll tax. The latter came to be regarded as a religious tax, payable only by non-Muslims, but in the beginning it was simply what the conquered people paid to the conquerors, though it may have been perceived as apt that those whom God had evidently forsaken should pay for the upkeep of those whom God had patently favored." (R Hoyland - In God's path)

Also viewing the initial Arab conquests as being carried out solely by Muslims is not true. Many Christians and Jews were involved in the conquests and they didn't pay any additional taxes they shared in the booty. Even later, after the Jizya had clearly been established, certain groups were exempt if they were providing services (usually military) to the Caliphate.

 

[McBell]

Jesus is above Mohammed in rank.

ONLY to Christians.
Sadly they cannot prove this claim outside their beliefs.
Just like Muslims cannot prove their claim beyond their beliefs.

So though you rally on and on, you are in the exact same boat as Muslims.

 

[paarsurrey]

Was Muhammad The Greatest Moral Example?

What are the morals and how morals are related to natural instincts of man? A list of moral should be provided .
Will somebody reflect on it? Please

I find a list:
1. Being Honest, Truthful, Trustworthy
2. Having Integrity
3. Being Caring/ Compassionate/ Benevolent
4. Doing One’s Civic Duty
5. Having Courage
6. Being Willing to Sacrifice
7. Maintaining Self-Control
8. Being just and Fair
9. Being Cooperative
10. Being Persevering/ Diligent
11. Keeping Promises
12. Doing no harm
13. Pursuing excellence/ takes pride in work
14. Taking personal responsibility
15. Having Empathy
16. Benefiting others
17. Having Respect for others
18. Having Patience
19. Being Forgiving
20. Making Peace
21. Having Fidelity/ Loyal
22. Respecting Autonomy
23. Being Tolerant
24. Having Self-respect
25. Competitiveness
26. Valuing Life
http://jneedham.iweb.bsu.edu/408/Keith-Spiegel -- 24 moral_characteristics_list.htm

Regards

 

[morphesium]

Quran allows freedom of religion.
Regards

Yes! Yes!
Quran allows freedom of religion.
Quran allows freedom of thought.
Quran allows mocking prophet.
Quran allows rejecting islam.

 

[DawudTalut]

The Koran says that Mohammed sinned whereas Jesus is reputed to have been sinless.

Jesus is above Mohammed in rank.

Peace be on you.
1=All Prophets including Ibrahim, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad , peace be on them] were human and pure of sins, they constantly sought cover and help from God. The word sin for them is not like the word sin for ordinary people. They took care of minutest deed should not be in error yet they were human, they always sought cover and help of God.

" Istighfar means to cover up, protect or suppress. The primary connotation of Istighfar is to supplicate for the suppression of human tendency to fall into error so as to be safeguarded against error or sin. Its secondary connotation is to supplicate for suppression of consequences of error. Thus Istighfar might connote suppression of a person's tendency towards falling into sin or error, or his protection against the consequences of such errors or sin, or of the errors and sins of others.

On account of lack of knowledge of Arabic, the true significance of Istighfar has been lost to many. This word is derived from Ghafr, the other infinitive forms being Maghfirat, Ghufran etc. As given in all Arabic dictionaries, the word ghafr means - to cover or to protect. Therefore the primary meaning of Istighfar mean, seeking protection or a prayer of protection and support. All other meanings usually given to this word are derived or secondary."
Ref: https://www.alislam.org/library/links/00000111.html

2= Just for the sake of argument [though we believe Jesus was true Prophet]
If you see from the view of the people to whom he came:
"And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree" is "the accursed of God". (Deut.21:22-23)

The Christians also believe that Jesus was hanged on the cross and died an accursed death. Says Paul:
"Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree". (Galatians. 3:13)


3=But the Holy Quran declares that Christ did not die on the Cross. God saved him from death by crucifixion in the same way as He saved His dear ones from tribulations, Did not Jonah the Prophet come out alive from the belly of the whale?

The fact of the matter is that Jesus Christ only fell into a swoon on the Cross, but when he was taken down from it, he recovered then died a natural death at the good old age of 120.
Ref: Ahmadiyya-Muslim understanding @ https://www.alislam.org/library/dcross.html

 

[morphesium]

It is not my individual interpretation. It is very much in Quran, and very loud and clear and beyond doubt. There is a whole chapter in Quran on freedom of religion:

The Holy Quran : Chapter 109: Al-Kafirun

[109:1]In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[109:2]Say, ‘O ye disbelievers!
[109:3]‘I worship not that which you worship;
[109:4]‘Nor worship you what I worship.
[109:5]‘And I am not going to worship that which you worship;
[109:6]‘Nor will you worship what I worship.
[109:7]‘For you your religion, and for me my religion.’
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=109

Regards

'For you your religion, and for me my religion - and your religion must be islam for i have perfected the religion for you'

 

[NewChapter]

Peace be on you.
1=All Prophets including Ibrahim, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad , peace be on them] were human and pure of sins, they constantly sought cover and help from God. The word sin for them is not like the word sin for ordinary people. They took care of minutest deed should not be in error yet they were human, they always sought cover and help of God.

" Istighfar means to cover up, protect or suppress. The primary connotation of Istighfar is to supplicate for the suppression of human tendency to fall into error so as to be safeguarded against error or sin. Its secondary connotation is to supplicate for suppression of consequences of error. Thus Istighfar might connote suppression of a person's tendency towards falling into sin or error, or his protection against the consequences of such errors or sin, or of the errors and sins of others.

On account of lack of knowledge of Arabic, the true significance of Istighfar has been lost to many. This word is derived from Ghafr, the other infinitive forms being Maghfirat, Ghufran etc. As given in all Arabic dictionaries, the word ghafr means - to cover or to protect. Therefore the primary meaning of Istighfar mean, seeking protection or a prayer of protection and support. All other meanings usually given to this word are derived or secondary."
Ref: https://www.alislam.org/library/links/00000111.html

2= Just for the sake of argument [though we believe Jesus was true Prophet]
If you see from the view of the people to whom he came:
"And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree" is "the accursed of God". (Deut.21:22-23)

The Christians also believe that Jesus was hanged on the cross and died an accursed death. Says Paul:
"Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree". (Galatians 3:13)


3=But the Holy Quran declares that Christ did not die on the Cross. God saved him from death by crucifixion in the same way as He saved His dear ones from tribulations, Did not Jonah the Prophet come out alive from the belly of the whale?

The fact of the matter is that Jesus Christ only fell into a swoon on the Cross, but when he was taken down from it, he recovered then died a natural death at the good old age of 120.
Ahmadiyya-Muslim understanding @ https://www.alislam.org/library/dcross.html

Hi,

"Now if God were to take men [at once] to task for whatever [wrong] they commit [on earth], He would not leave a single living creature upon its surface." Koran 35:45

This plainly means that Mohammed committed wrong.

Jesus is reputed to have never done wrong.

 

[paarsurrey]

'For you your religion, and for me my religion - and your religion must be islam for i have perfected the religion for you'

One has put inverted comma in the sentence. Whose saying is it that one copied? Please
Regards

 

[matthew_/!/]

One has put inverted comma in the sentence. Whose saying is it that one copied? Please
Regards

What even is an inverted comma

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

What even is an inverted comma

These are 'inverted commas'. It denotes somebody speaking, but is not a direct quote; else these "quote marks" are used.

 

[matthew_/!/]

These are 'inverted commas'. It denotes somebody speaking, but is not a direct quote; else these "quote marks" are used.

Ah. By inverted I did not think it just meant a comma but at the height of an apostrophe. Thanks

 

[morphesium]

One has put inverted comma in the sentence. Whose saying is it that one copied? Please
Regards

Spoiler: "This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favor upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion"

http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=822&Itemid=60

(This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favor upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.) This, indeed, is the biggest favor from Allah to this Ummah, for He has completed their religion for them, and they, thus, do not need any other religion or any other Prophet except Muhammad . This is why Allah made Muhammad the Final Prophet and sent him to all humans and Jinn. Therefore, the permissible is what he allows, the impermissible is what he prohibits, the Law is what he legislates and everything that he conveys is true and authentic and does not contain lies or contradictions.

(This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favor upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.) meaning, accept Islam for yourselves, for it is the religion that Allah likes and which He chose for you, and it is that with which He sent the best of the honorable Messengers and the most glorious of His Books. Ibn Jarir recorded that Harun bin `Antarah said that his father said, "When the Ayah,

and here from one of your previous posts.

Only Islam claims to be the religion for whole humanity and gives reasons for it in Quran:
[5:4]Forbidden to you isthe flesh of an animalwhich dies of itself, and blood and the flesh of swine; and that on which is invoked the name of one other than Allah; and that which has been strangled; and that beaten to death; and that killed by a fall; and that which has been gored to death; and that of which a wild animal has eaten, except that which you have properly slaughtered; and that which has been slaughtered at an altar.And forbidden is alsothat you seek to know your lot by the divining arrows. That isan act ofdisobedience. This day have those who disbelieve despaired ofharmingyour religion. So fear them not, but fear Me. This day have I perfected your religion for you and completed My favour upon you and have chosen for you Islam as religion. But whoso is forced by hunger, without being wilfully inclined to sin, then, surely, Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful.

 

[morphesium]

I find a list:
1. Being Honest, Truthful, Trustworthy
2. Having Integrity
3. Being Caring/ Compassionate/ Benevolent
4. Doing One’s Civic Duty
5. Having Courage
6. Being Willing to Sacrifice
7. Maintaining Self-Control
8. Being just and Fair
9. Being Cooperative
10. Being Persevering/ Diligent
11. Keeping Promises
12. Doing no harm
13. Pursuing excellence/ takes pride in work
14. Taking personal responsibility
15. Having Empathy
16. Benefiting others
17. Having Respect for others
18. Having Patience
19. Being Forgiving
20. Making Peace
21. Having Fidelity/ Loyal
22. Respecting Autonomy
23. Being Tolerant
24. Having Self-respect
25. Competitiveness
26. Valuing Life
http://jneedham.iweb.bsu.edu/408/Keith-Spiegel -- 24 moral_characteristics_list.htm

Regards

For every virtue you type - there are numerous verses in Koran that stand against it. It supports terrorism, paedophilia, torturing, etc. Only a man with low morale and crippled rational thinking power would consider koran as a source for guidance. They can never believe that there is a far better morally advanced world out there.

 

[Augustus]

here are numerous verses in Koran that stand against it. It supports terrorism, paedophilia, torturing

What Quranic verses support paedophilia?

 

[morphesium]

What Quranic verses support paedophilia?

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Pedophilia_in_the_Qur'an

 

[paarsurrey]

#107

I find a list:
1. Being Honest, Truthful, Trustworthy
http://jneedham.iweb.bsu.edu/408/Keith-Spiegel -- 24 moral_characteristics_list.htm

For every virtue you type - there are numerous verses in Koran that stand against it. It supports terrorism, paedophilia, torturing, etc. Only a man with low morale and crippled rational thinking power would consider koran as a source for guidance. They can never believe that there is a far better morally advanced world out there.

Please try your luck on the above "1. Being Honest, Truthful, Trustworthy" and provide a single, repeat a single verse, repeat a single verse of Quran that is against being honest, truthful and trustworthy.
Also @Rival friend and @matthew_/!/ friend

Regards