Was the Buddha a vegetarian?

[Rick O'Shez]

Your just making up excuses for your murdering of animals, don't bull **** to me.

People come up with all kinds of self-justifying BS to explain away their behaviour.

 

[HarihOm]

Namaste

No hypocrisy, as commuting is part of normal daily life, some have no choice but to drive to work, some jobs are driving jobs, some people have so much physical disability they may need to be driven around, so my point is that in this day and age driving and cars and bikes are part of normal life, your killing beings when you sleep, it part of life that beings depend on each other for birth and death.

So far you have not adopted any Buddhist principles, like going from extremes to extremes, which mainly seems to justify your dietary preference.

 

[buddhist]

Your intent is to satisfy your craving for meat, with apparently little concern for how the meat ends up on your plate.

You're an "early Buddhist", so don't you practice Right Intention, which includes the intention of harmlessness?

I do, in accordance with the Buddha's statement in the Vinaya, where he allowed meat-eating. I harmonized that allowance with the idea of intent in Buddhism.

 

[psychoslice]

What is your excuse then, for the thousands you kill with your motor vehicle?

You have no idea do you?, of course there are situation where animals are killed, but we as humans know that, and as humans we should do something about that, where as you just want to continue killing animals, and have some stupid excuse to do so.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I do, in accordance with the Buddha's statement in the Vinaya, where he allowed meat-eating. I harmonized that allowance with the idea of intent in Buddhism.

Cop-out. You know full-well that when you buy meat you are increasing the demand and causing more animals to be killed. You know full well that others will have to do the killing and butchering on your behalf, that is wrong livelihood and against the first precept, but you don't care, just so long as you satisfy your meat craving.

 

[buddhist]

Namaste

No hypocrisy, as commuting is part of normal daily life, some have no choice but to drive to work, some jobs are driving jobs, some people have so much physical disability they may need to be driven around, so my point is that in this day and age driving and cars and bikes are part of normal life, your killing beings when you sleep, it part of life that beings depend on each other for birth and death.

So far you have not adopted any Buddhist principles, like going from extremes to extremes, which mainly seems to justify your dietary preference.

Let's make this clear: The Buddha allowed meat eating in the Vinaya; I'm not sure how you can claim I'm not being Buddhist. My understanding allows for intent, and for meat eating, but not for direct killing, and thus allows for traveling in motor vehicles (e.g. I have no intent to kill in a motor vehicle), and is thus a pragmatic harmonization of the Buddhist scriptures. This is my position. If you have a problem with the Buddha's allowance for meat eating, then your problem is with him, not me.

Unfortunately, those who ignore the Buddha's Vinaya allowance for meat, and wish to stick to a strict vegetarianism will have to deal with things like killing insects while operating motor vehicles. This is not my position, just to clarify - just my criticism of it.

 

[buddhist]

Cop-out. You know full-well that when you buy meat you are increasing the demand and causing more animals to be killed. You know full well that others will have to do the killing and butchering on your behalf, that is wrong livelihood but you don't care, just so long as you satisfy your meat craving.

I can also say "You know full-well that when you travel in a motor vehicle, you cause the death and destruction of thousands of lives, but you don't care, just so long as you satisfy your other cravings by travelling in such a manner."

 

[Rick O'Shez]

You have no idea do you?, of course there are situation where animals are killed, but we as humans know that, and as humans we should do something about that, where as you just want to continue killing animals, and have some stupid excuse to do so.

Meat eating is a choice, and for most people dietary preferences are readily available. But some people just like the taste of meat, and don't care how it gets on their plate.

 

[HarihOm]

Namaste,

Please read Vanijja Sutta, AN 5:177 where the Buddha said the Butchery was wrong livelihood.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

The Buddha allowed meat eating in the Vinaya; I'm not sure how you can claim I'm not being Buddhist.

You expect somebody to kill and butcher on your behalf, so you are breaking the first precept and right livelihood by proxy. You are expecting others to act unskillfully on your behalf. You DO have a responsibility for your decisions, no matter how much you try to evade them.

You are failing to develop Right Intention, particularly harmlessness, you just want to satisfy your craving for meat withe little apparent concern for the suffering of the animals involved.

 

[buddhist]

Namaste,

Please read Vanijja Sutta, AN 5:177 where the Buddha said the Butchery was wrong livelihood.

How do you harmonize this sutta with his statements where he allows meat-eating?

 

[buddhist]

You expect somebody to kill and butcher on your behalf, so you are breaking the first precept and right livelihood by proxy.

You are failing to develop Right Intention, particularly harmlessness, you just want to satisfy your craving for meat withe little apparent concern for the suffering of the animals involved.

Do you travel in motor vehicles? I've noticed you've skirted this subject.

 

[HarihOm]

Namaste

Common sense, if you like I can also give many quotations that vegetarian diet is preferred. You claim early Buddhism, but you may want to gain some insights into India as a historical place of those times, then make a grand assessment of his teachings that fit into the context of that time, plus there is no account of the Siddharta eating meat before he was enlightened, so for his own personal growth towards enlightenment there is no evidence he ate meat.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Do you travel in motor vehicles? I've noticed you've skirted this subject.

No, I don't, but this is a straw-man argument anyway. The point is to MINIMISE the harm we do, not add to it.

When making a conscious decision to buy meat when alternatives are available, you are ADDING to the harm caused. This is clearly contrary to Right Intention.

You are also expecting others to break the first precept and do wrong livelihood on your behalf, all very unskillful.

Your posts reek of self-justification, basically it sounds like you just like the taste of meat and don't want to give it up, so you come up with excuses.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I do, in accordance with the Buddha's statement in the Vinaya, where he allowed meat-eating.

Did he? Of course, it was OK if that was left with the family and if that was what put in the bowl (since he will beg only once a day and would not ask for a second helping. Standard scriptural rule for Sannyasis in India). Buddha would not have bought it from the market. Of course, there are limits to 'ahimsa' that we cannot do much about. Jains went farther, but that too does not erase all inadvertant 'himsa'. Intent is the thing. Dharmavyadha explained it well in Bhagawat Purana.

Even with eating meat, you will remain a Buddhist, but you will not be a perfect Buddhist. Don't worry, hardly anyone is perfect. I do not try to be a perfect Hindu. It is not easy.

 

[buddhist]

Namaste

Common sense, if you like I can also give many quotations that vegetarian diet is preferred. You claim early Buddhism, but you may want to gain some insights into India as a historical place of those times, then make a grand assessment of his teachings that fit into the context of that time, plus there is no account of the Siddharta eating meat before he was enlightened, so for his own personal growth towards enlightenment there is no evidence he ate meat.

I hold AN 5.44 to be canonical, where it states that the Buddha accepted pork offered to him.

 

[psychoslice]

Lets forget all about the excuses of killing animals or not, I would say, how the hell would you feel if there was a race of people who wanted to eat you, just because they thought you were meat for their diet, now don't give me any bullsit..

 

[buddhist]

No, I don't, but this is a straw-man argument anyway.

Glad to hear it then; no cars, no planes, no buses, nothing. May you reap much positive kamma from your actions.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Did he? Of course, it was OK if that was left with the family and if that was what put in the bowl (since he will beg only once a day). Buddha would not have bought it from the market. Of course, there are limits to 'ahimsa' that we cannot do much about. Jains went farther, but that too does not erase all inadvertant 'himsa'. Intent is the thing. Dharmavyadha explained it well in Bhagawat Purana.

The intention of the 3-fold rule was to prevent further animals being slaughtered for food. The principle reflects the first precept and the development of harmlessness ( Right Intention ).

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Glad to hear it then; no cars, no planes, no buses, nothing. May you reap much positive kamma from your actions.

Straw-man cop-out.