• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Was the New Atheism Movement a Failed Crisis Cult

Of course atheistic speakers will have some ideology of their own and there will be a strong incidence of anti-theistic features in many of them. They have, after all, felt the need to denounce theism.

And new atheism refers to this additional ideological aspect that goes beyond simple atheism (anti-theism, secular humanism, etc).

Attempting to present them as significantly different from atheism in general, however, is misleading and should be avoided.

So, in your words, atheism is an absence of belief, not even disbelief: an absence.

Yet trying to present the totality of Sam Harris' views as being substantially more than 'an absence of belief' should be avoided?
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
And new atheism refers to this additional ideological aspect that goes beyond simple atheism (anti-theism, secular humanism, etc).

If it does, then it is not even an useless term. It is just venom.

Anti-theism and secular humanism are fine on their own terms, and ought to become more well-known. But they should not be called "new atheism".


So, in your words, atheism is an absence of belief, not even disbelief: an absence.

Yep.

Yet trying to present the totality of Sam Harris' views as being substantially more than 'an absence of belief' should be avoided?

Sam Harris is perhaps the most prolific of the Four Horsemen. Probably the most instigating, and he does deserve recognition for that.

But please, don't call him a "new atheist". He is so much more.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
My 'rhetoric' was that new atheism as a term carries meaning.

Rhetoric.

It can carry what ever meaning you want it to. There just is no standard definition for such a term.

It was made by the biased media to make a description.

People like you, want to make it more then it is.

Your no atheist in my eyes, and I don't even want to know why you make the claim you are. I call it POE.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Yes from someone who sticks up for the religious fighting tooth and nail as any apologist does, yet claims he himself is an atheist.

Sorry I don't buy it at all.
Not sure what you mean. Are you doubting my atheism by virtue of my interest in religion? Or is it the other way around? Both? Neither? Is it my bad breath, perhaps?

I never found it advisable or wise to associate religion with theistic belief. Whether that relates to this "sticking up for the religious fighting" that you seem to be accusing me of, I have no idea.

As for buying it... keep your money.
 

prometheus11

Well-Known Member
Yes from someone who sticks up for the religious fighting tooth and nail as any apologist does, yet claims he himself is an atheist.

Sorry I don't buy it at all.

Yeah, I've wondered about that too. Kinda like claiming to be black to criticize issues favored by African Americans. I've even asked him direct questions about his brand of atheism and haven't gotten a reply.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Oh, no. Atheism is just atheism. It is just a bit more open these days, when our lives are not so much at risk.
Please elaborate.
There are extremists in the ranks of Atheism (or its denomination in that group ) also. We cannot ignore them. Can we?
Regards
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
Yes from someone who sticks up for the religious fighting tooth and nail as any apologist does, yet claims he himself is an atheist.
Personally, I think you are the one with the problem grasping nuanced understanding. @Augustus and I don't always agree, but s/he is not a religious apologist. (I think Augustus is actually female)
The term New Atheist does have meaning, even if it is unclear. You are the one who said it was meaningless.
Tom
 

outhouse

Atheistically
Yeah, I've wondered about that too. Kinda like claiming to be black to criticize issues favored by African Americans. I've even asked him direct questions about his brand of atheism and haven't gotten a reply.

What I see is someone who slightly makes his own personal context out of the English language.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
Personally, I think you are the one with the problem grasping nuanced understanding

That's your opinion, you may even be right. But unless you can provide another example you will not substantiate that claim.

Said person has this issue in multiple thread with multiple people, not just me.

The term New Atheist does have meaning, even if it is unclear.

But only apologist seem to use that made up meaning.


You are the one who said it was meaningless

It is.

YEC think their hypothesis has scientific meaning. It factually does not. Same case here, the only people who use this are apologist who don't like what academia posits.

Its not a term any atheist really self identifies with is it Tom? Who generally uses this term ?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
New atheism doesn't mean 'a new version of atheism' though, it means aggressively anti-theistic secular humanism.

As a (non-organised) movement that gained publicity and grew in popularity as a specific reaction to 9/11 and it's aftermath, it gained a prominence that led to it needing a shorthand name. That's just what happens when people start taking notice of things, they need words to describe them.

Someone used new atheism and that's what stuck. People needed some name to call it the post 9/11 aggressively anti-theistic secular humanist movement that could be understood by the general public. I've never heard anyone suggest that their ideas were new, just that, post 9/11, 'new atheists' saw combatting religion to take on a higher degree of importance, and the public became more interested in such ideas.

I'm not a great fan of the term, but then again I'm not arguing that nothing better could have been created. It's just that once a term gets popularised then it's easier to use the term that other people understand. I irrationally hate the word podcast, but there's no point in saying 'something similar to a radio programme that I downloaded from the internet' cos it's longer and less readily understandable.

People who are interested in these issues understand new atheism whether they like the term or not. But disliking the word is very different from the word carrying no meaning.
Instead of calling plain old aggressive anti-theistic atheism "new atheism", they should call it what I underlined.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Please elaborate.
There are extremists in the ranks of Atheism (or its denomination in that group ) also. We cannot ignore them. Can we?
Regards
Far from ignoring them, I think we should consider them accurately, instead of bringing up entirely phantasious ghosts on their behalf.

At the end of the day, there is nothing to fear from atheism and lots to fear from theism, particularly when it is dogmatic and politically active.
 
If it does, then it is not even an useless term. It is just venom.

This is a little bizarre. How is the term 'venom'? New Atheism basically means 'the views of Sam Harris'. I'm genuinely confused as to why some people believe it is intrinsically pejorative or polemical.

Some people seem to have decided it is a terrible insult rather than just a name for a set of beliefs. Any word can be used as an insult if you want: wonderful, expert, intelligent can easily be used as insults if you so choose. I can only assume that you are confusing someone using it in this way with what the term actually means to reach your conclusion.

The term is generally considered to have gained popularity after this article from 2006:

It's a question you may prefer not to be asked. But I'm afraid I have no choice. We find ourselves, this very autumn, three and a half centuries after the intellectual martyrdom of Galileo, caught up in a struggle of ultimate importance, when each one of us must make a commitment. It is time to declare our position.

This is the challenge posed by the New Atheists. We are called upon, we lax agnostics, we noncommittal nonbelievers, we vague deists who would be embarrassed to defend antique absurdities like the Virgin Birth or the notion that Mary rose into heaven without dying, or any other blatant myth; we are called out, we fence-sitters, and told to help exorcise this debilitating curse: the curse of faith.

The New Atheists will not let us off the hook simply because we are not doctrinaire believers. They condemn not just belief in God but respect for belief in God. Religion is not only wrong; it's evil. Now that the battle has been joined, there's no excuse for shirking.

Three writers have sounded this call to arms. They are Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, and Daniel Dennett. A few months ago, I set out to talk with them. I wanted to find out what it would mean to enlist in the war against faith.


http://www.wired.com/2006/11/atheism/

As you can see, this is hardly 'venom' or some form of polemical screed, it is a sympathetic article that contains interviews with Harris, Dawkins and Dennett.

What level of oversensitivity is required to consider this 'venom' or 'some kind of conspiracy theory'?

It's just a journalistic shorthand.

But please, don't call him a "new atheist". He is so much more.

Of course anybody is more than the views they hold on one particular topic, but that doesn't stop you calling Mitt Romney a conservative.

Seeing as 'New Atheism' is pretty much synonymous with 'what Sam Harris thinks', it covers him just about as fully as possible as a single noun could.

the tl;dr:

1. New Atheist is not an insult, it is a purely neutral term.
2. Whilst the term might be imperfectly crafted and thus disliked, it conveys a meaning which is intelligible to many people.
 
Your no atheist in my eyes, and I don't even want to know why you make the claim you are.

Yeah, I've wondered about that too. Kinda like claiming to be black to criticize issues favored by African Americans.

Atheist takfir, a somewhat ironic concept :babyangel:

image.jpg
 
Instead of calling plain old aggressive anti-theistic atheism "new atheism", they should call it what I underlined.

Aggressive anti-theistic secular humanism is really their ideology though. The commies practiced aggressive anti-theistic atheism, but were very different from New Atheists.

New Atheists also have a positive message to go with the anti-theism, replace theistic religious belief with the empathetic use of science and reason to help improve society.

New(ly visible) movements get new names. Would anyone be complaining now if the views promoted by Harris and co. had been given the name 'Unequivocal Rationalism' or 'Progressive Secularism' rather than New Atheism?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Aggressive anti-theistic secular humanism is really their ideology though. The commies practiced aggressive anti-theistic atheism, but were very different from New Atheists.

New Atheists also have a positive message to go with the anti-theism, replace theistic religious belief with the empathetic use of science and reason to help improve society.

New(ly visible) movements get new names. Would anyone be complaining now if the views promoted by Harris and co. had been given the name 'Unequivocal Rationalism' or 'Progressive Secularism' rather than New Atheism?
It still sounds like a needless buzz word...or would it be a "buzz phrase"?
 

outhouse

Atheistically
New Atheism basically means 'the views of Sam Harris'

So because some biased theist called it new atheism, that is the term we all should use now?


No, bias does not dictate a definition that applies to all people. Its a definition used ONLY by biased theist
 
Top