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Was the New Atheism Movement a Failed Crisis Cult

So because some biased theist called it new atheism, that is the term we all should use now?


No, bias does not dictate a definition that applies to all people. Its a definition used ONLY by biased theist

You can use whatever term you like, I was just stating the pretty obvious fact that people understand what New Atheism is, and that the term is neutral rather than a flagrant insult.

I actually posted the article generally accepted as being the one which popularised the term, you conveniently left that part out of your reply though.

The article was written by an atheist and is very reasonable. You can read it if you like; I kindly provided you with a link :)

There's a certain kind of atheist, often the kind who likes Richard Dawkins and posts about religion on the internet, who belongs to a very strange bunch: exceedingly precious over their sacred cows and as closed minded as a religious fundamentalist.

All I said was that New Atheism is a term that has meaning, which is pretty obvious seeing as we all manage to understand it pretty accurately in this discussion and it is a term that is not uncommon in the mainstream media, has its own Wikipedia page and turns up 307,000 hits if typed into Google in "quotes". I said I didn't care much for the term personally, but it's just a term that stuck so no point in sulking and churlishly pretending you don't understand it.

For committing the crime of saying that New Atheist as a term carries meaning, and pointing out that it is a neutral term rather than a pejorative one (with evidence to prove the point) I have been accused by various people of:

1. Partaking in conspiracy theories
2. Spreading venom
3. Being an apologist for religion
4. Not being a 'true' atheist
5. Being some kind of undercover theist [who is mendaciously trying to undermine atheism by engaging in pointless quibbles on the internet]


It's quite cute really, certainly raised a smile :grinning:
 

prometheus11

Well-Known Member
You can use whatever term you like, I was just stating the pretty obvious fact that people understand what New Atheism is, and that the term is neutral rather than a flagrant insult.

I actually posted the article generally accepted as being the one which popularised the term, you conveniently left that part out of your reply though.

The article was written by an atheist and is very reasonable. You can read it if you like; I kindly provided you with a link :)

There's a certain kind of atheist, often the kind who likes Richard Dawkins and posts about religion on the internet, who belongs to a very strange bunch: exceedingly precious over their sacred cows and as closed minded as a religious fundamentalist.

All I said was that New Atheism is a term that has meaning, which is pretty obvious seeing as we all manage to understand it pretty accurately in this discussion and it is a term that is not uncommon in the mainstream media, has its own Wikipedia page and turns up 307,000 hits if typed into Google in "quotes". I said I didn't care much for the term personally, but it's just a term that stuck so no point in sulking and churlishly pretending you don't understand it.

For committing the crime of saying that New Atheist as a term carries meaning, and pointing out that it is a neutral term rather than a pejorative one (with evidence to prove the point) I have been accused by various people of:

1. Partaking in conspiracy theories
2. Spreading venom
3. Being an apologist for religion
4. Not being a 'true' atheist
5. Being some kind of undercover theist [who is mendaciously trying to undermine atheism by engaging in pointless quibbles on the internet]


It's quite cute really, certainly raised a smile :grinning:

Number four and five is a bald faced lie if you're talking about my post or Outhouse's in this thread. Neither of us were making accusations at all, but simply "thinking aloud" about your TONE and DICTION in ALL your posts.

We did not accuse you, and our purely subjective opinion comments were based on your entire posting history...not the few sentiments you've provided in this thread.

Play the victim much?

Guess what you'd be accused of if you debated the appropriate use of the term "victim blaming?"
 

serp777

Well-Known Member
Before everyone thinks I am calling atheism a religion, I am not. I am asking a specific movement that is identified with atheism...the New Atheism.

First a crisis cult is a term coined by anthropologist Weston La Barre, in his terminology a crisis cult is a group that is created in reaction to a perceived crisis. They spring up when people feel that the social norms are no longer working but absolutely failing, when a perceived threat is imminent or as a reaction to extreme incidences of violence. Much like the Ghost Dance cult movement that rose up during the 1890's in reaction complete collapse of Native American civilization and autonomy.

The New Atheism came into being after the events of 9/11, many within this movement have said that it was rising Muslim terrorism that sealed it for them and they felt that Islam in particular and religion in general was responsible for a majority of the worlds woes. Religion was not only to blame for violence but also blamed for keeping scientific progress at bay thus hindering humankind from advancing.

Like many crisis cults, the New Atheism demonizies and scapegoats the Other, feels persecuted, feels they alone have the truth and the only right way to live and believe and they offer an utopian vision of the future.

All these things are indicative of a crisis cult.

So what do you think? Could the New Atheist movement been some sort of crisis cult?

New Atheism has to be one of the dumbest terms ever. How is new atheism different from old atheism? And associating a cult with atheism is totally contradictory. Atheism is just the simple position of rejecting theism. It has nothing to do with cults, or communities, or anti Muslim groups, etc. It makes about as much sense as calling them the new a leprechanist cult, or the new a celestialteapot cult.

Where is the evidence that such a group of atheists exist anyways? But calling it new atheism is a pitiful attempt by the religious to equalize the scales and to associate atheism with the same kind of faith based logic that religious people use

If you're going to complain about cults talk about Christianity or Islam. Most Christians and Muslims are cult members by definition. Furthermore, Christian cults alone have attacked many more Muslims and Sihks mistaken as Muslims than these supposed fairy tale cult atheists.
 

McBell

Unbound
A word that, despite plenty of evidence to the contrary, a few precious souls have decided must be a grave insult just because it doesn't match exactly with their own favoured mode of expression?
I guess you will now have to reveal the difference between a "neutral insult" and a "flagrant insult".

One wonders why you would use a term you cannot define....
 
I guess you will now have to reveal the difference between a "neutral insult" and a "flagrant insult".

One wonders why you would use a term you cannot define....

Ahh, you were referring to this: "the term is neutral rather than a flagrant insult."? Misunderstood your post, thought it was a play on words aimed at me saying the term was neutral and you saying 'how can an insult be neutral?' I was confused because I didn't use the term.

Unfortunately, you read "the term is a neutral rather than flagrant insult, but I wrote "the term is neutral rather than a flagrant insult."

Does that answer your question?
 

McBell

Unbound
Ahh, you were referring to this: "the term is neutral rather than a flagrant insult."? Misunderstood your post, thought it was a play on words aimed at me saying the term was neutral and you saying 'how can an insult be neutral?' I was confused because I didn't use the term.

Unfortunately, you read "the term is a neutral rather than flagrant insult, but I wrote "the term is neutral rather than a flagrant insult."

Does that answer your question?
I suppose it does.
Now all you need do is show it is actually a "neutral" term.
Clearly it is not.
Interestingly enough, the term has been used on this very forum by numerous theists as a slur.
 

serp777

Well-Known Member
You can use whatever term you like, I was just stating the pretty obvious fact that people understand what New Atheism is, and that the term is neutral rather than a flagrant insult.

I actually posted the article generally accepted as being the one which popularised the term, you conveniently left that part out of your reply though.

The article was written by an atheist and is very reasonable. You can read it if you like; I kindly provided you with a link :)

There's a certain kind of atheist, often the kind who likes Richard Dawkins and posts about religion on the internet, who belongs to a very strange bunch: exceedingly precious over their sacred cows and as closed minded as a religious fundamentalist.

All I said was that New Atheism is a term that has meaning, which is pretty obvious seeing as we all manage to understand it pretty accurately in this discussion and it is a term that is not uncommon in the mainstream media, has its own Wikipedia page and turns up 307,000 hits if typed into Google in "quotes". I said I didn't care much for the term personally, but it's just a term that stuck so no point in sulking and churlishly pretending you don't understand it.

For committing the crime of saying that New Atheist as a term carries meaning, and pointing out that it is a neutral term rather than a pejorative one (with evidence to prove the point) I have been accused by various people of:

1. Partaking in conspiracy theories
2. Spreading venom
3. Being an apologist for religion
4. Not being a 'true' atheist
5. Being some kind of undercover theist [who is mendaciously trying to undermine atheism by engaging in pointless quibbles on the internet]


It's quite cute really, certainly raised a smile :grinning:
All I said was that New Atheism is a term that has meaning, which is pretty obvious seeing as we all manage to understand it pretty accurately in this discussion and it is a term that is not uncommon in the mainstream media, has its own Wikipedia page and turns up 307,000 hits if typed into Google in "quotes". I said I didn't care much for the term personally, but it's just a term that stuck so no point in sulking and churlishly pretending you don't understand it.

Well personally I have no idea how New Atheism differs from old atheism and how its different from new a leprechaunism or new a santaclausism. The rejection of theism isn't new.

So the label, if there are "new atheists", is entirely inaccurate and senseless.
 
I suppose it does.
Now all you need do is show it is actually a "neutral" term.
Clearly it is not.
Interestingly enough, the term has been used on this very forum by numerous theists as a slur.

Lots of things can be used as an insult, that doesn't mean they are intrinsically insulting or can only be used as an insult.

I posted the article generally considered to have popularised the term, which was written by an atheist and is not insulting.

Seeing as you could very easily use google to find countless examples of New Atheism being used in a neutral context, I'll just stick to peer reviewed journals that you might not have access to (if you do search them yourself).

Is this sufficient?


In recent years, a series of bestselling atheist manifestos by Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins, and Christopher Hitchens has thrust the topic of the rationality of religion into the public discourse. Christian moderates of an intellectual bent and even some agnostics and atheists have taken umbrage and lashed back. In this paper I defend the New Atheists against three common charges: that their critiques of religion commit basic logical fallacies (such as straw man, false dichotomy, or hasty generalization), that their own atheism is just as 'faith-based' as the religious beliefs they criticize, and that their expressed disrespect for religious belief is immoral.

An apology for the 'New Atheism'. Johnson, Andrew

International Journal for Philosophy of Religion. Feb2013, Vol. 73 Issue 1, p5-28. 24p.


In recent years, the so-called New Atheists have mounted a series of aggressive attacks upon religious belief.Though many who are sympathetic to atheism have seen the work of the ‘four-horseman’ as a much-needed curative, others have expressed worries.1 Among those in the latter category is Philip Kitcher.2 Though Kitcher thinks that the New Atheists (particularly Dawkins and Dennett) are eloquent champions of their cause, he fears that their message is undermined by its excessively broad target. By mounting an attack against religion tout court, they risk alienating a large swath of ‘religious’ people whose way of life is, to Kitcher’s mind, innocuous. Though Kitcher, too, thinks that the decline of religious belief is to be welcomed, he understands that human beings, at least in their current historical form, have deep-seated psychological and social needs that religion meets. Thus, if one wants to articulate a viable secular humanism, they must (for now, at least) patiently entertain certain non-threatening modes of religious existence, what Kitcher calls religious orientations.

Desiderata for a Viable Secular Humanism RYAN KEMP

Journal of Applied Philosophy,Vol. 30, No. 2, 2013 doi: 10.1111/japp.12015


This article has been written to engage with the phenomenon of New Atheism, here treated as a discourse (Foucault 1981). We assume that New Atheism constitutes a series of discrete strategies and styles of argument and refuta- tion that have proliferated across a range of media for talking about religion.1 Initially associated with a certain limited corpus of semi-academic and polemi- cal writings by Richard Dawkins (2006), Daniel Dennett (2007), Christopher Hitchens (2007), and Sam Harris (2005), there is already talk of a ‘New New Atheism’ (Beha 2012). In this article, when we use the term ‘New Atheist dis- course’, we will be referring exclusively to the initial texts by Dawkins, Den- nett, Hitchens, and Harris.

Forget Dawkins: Notes toward an Ethnography of Religious Belief and Doubt,

Authors: Tremlett, Paul-François; Shih, Fang-Long

Source: Social Analysis, Volume 59, Number 2, Summer 2015, pp. 81-96(16)




His position is further compared with contemporary expressions of ‘new atheism’. Despite some obvious similarities, Hume’s position is judged more nuanced both in terms of content and rhetorical strategy.


The Absence of God and Its Contextual Significance for Hume.

By: Fergusson, David. Journal of Scottish Philosophy. Mar2013, Vol. 11 Issue 1, p69-85.

The term “New Atheism” was coined in 2006 to refer to a clutch of works by writers such as Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett, and Sam Harris, characterized as much by the aggressiveness of their rhetoric as the substance of their ideas.1 Although given an enthusiastic welcome on its appearance, particularly in the United States, the passing of time has seen the emergence of more critical and negative attitudes toward the movement, particularly in relation to its philosophi- cal underpinnings.

Midwest Studies In Philosophy, XXXVII (2013)

Evidence, Theory, and Interpretation: The “New Atheism” and the Philosophy of Science
Alister E McGrath

 
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prometheus11

Well-Known Member
The best I can tell, the term new atheist refers to atheists in developed countries that are primarily theistic refusing to stay in the closet. I guess new atheists are those who aren't ashamed of the label. Kind of like the term new gays. Oh.... Wait...um...
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Not that I'm aware of.
I've heard of the term, "new gay".
Some guy from Brazil has been using it.
I think it refers to gays who are currently prominent in the media.
Unlike old gays, eg, Rock Hudson & Quentin Crisp, the new gays are more visible in the media.

But this suggests a question....just what is the agenda of "new gays"?
And do they have that new gay smell?

And RIP, Rock & Quentin.
You guys were such luminaries.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
Wow. This is kind of an old thread. I miss the OP's contributions on certain topics.

As to the threas topic, I think "New Atheism," despite having some faults such as sometimes confusing all religions for the Abrahamic variety, is very much needed in order to balance the scales of public debate concerning the subject of religion and spirituality. I also think "New Atheism" is a misnomer: there has always been opposition to certain religious ideas (see Epicurus, for example). It is not unique to New Atheism.

I think New Atheism is often demonized by people who think strong criticism of religion is off limits. I don't recall any famous New Atheists saying anything about religious people that is worse than the very common belief among a lot of Muslims and Christians that non-believers are going to Hell, for example, or that homosexuals need to suppress their nature lest they "sin."
 
The best I can tell, the term new atheist refers to atheists in developed countries that are primarily theistic refusing to stay in the closet. I guess new atheists are those who aren't ashamed of the label. Kind of like the term new gays. Oh.... Wait...um...

Strange that a term that is self-evidently just a meaningless insult managed to get past the peer review process for dozens of unrelated journals despite being used in a consistent, meaningful and non-insulting manner.

Oh well, I guess they must be mistaken, a few people on the internet couldn't possibly be wrong...
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Has anyone ever described himself as a "new atheist" except perhaps in jest or a statement of irony?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Has anyone ever described himself as a "new atheist" except perhaps in jest or a statement of irony?
Perhaps you should, since you're a young whippersnapper compared to this old atheist.
DS is even younger, & a newcomer to our non-faith.....the newest of the new.
 
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