Was the real Jewish Garden of Eden located in Jerusalem?

[Greatest I am]

Sure -

Jer 7:17 Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem?

Jer 7:18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the Queen of Heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.


Jer 44:17 But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the Queen of Heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil.

Jer 44:18 But since we left off to burn incense to the Queen of Heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, we have wanted all things, and have been consumed by the sword and by the famine.

The Bible even tells us that the whole world (their known world obviously) worshipped the Goddess Artemis/Diana.

Act 19:27 So that not only this our craft is in danger to be set at nought; but also that the temple of the great Goddess Artemis/Diana should be despised, and her magnificence should be destroyed, whom all Asia and the world worshippeth.

"Queen of Heaven was a title given to a number of ancient sky goddesses in the ancient Mediterranean and Near East, in particular Anat, Isis, Innana, Astarte, Hera and possibly Asherah (by the prophet Jeremiah).

The goddess, the Queen of Heaven, whose worship Jeremiah so vehemently opposed, may have been possibly Astarte. Astarte is the name of a goddess as known from Northwestern Semitic regions, cognate in name, origin and functions with the goddess Ishtar in Mesopotamian texts. Another transliteration is ‘Ashtart; other names for the goddess include Hebrew עשתרת (transliterated Ashtoreth), Ugaritic ‘ṯtrt (also ‘Aṯtart or ‘Athtart, transliterated Atirat), Akkadian DAs-tar-tú (also Astartu) and Etruscan Uni-Astre (Pyrgi Tablets).

According to scholar Mark S. Smith, Astarte may be the Iron Age (after 1200 BC) incarnation of the Bronze Age (to 1200 BC) Asherah." - Queen of heaven (antiquity) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Excellent. Thanks.

It seems that the Jews were trying to write women and the Goddesses out of their religion just as the Christians did.

I see most of the Western religions as coming out of the East. The East kept some of its female Goddesses but the West cut ours right out. I guess that the Church wanted chattel for it's men and not equal partners.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

No.

IMHO it is 100% mythology that originates from Mesopotamian sources. Not only that before 1200 BC there were no Jews or Judaism, the people were for the most part displaced Canaanites at that time.

Much of the OT mythology was influenced while in and after exile in Babylon. Which leave the possibility of paralleling the gardens there.

I do not think there is much argument about how the Jews plagiarized the Sumerian myths.

So indeed, a real Garden of Eden out of doors somewhere is a myth. I suggest that the Garden they mythologized they then recreated in their palace complex in Jerusalem where all Jews could enjoy it.

It makes sense that they would do so to keep up with other kings in the other city states who built their to show off their power and wealth.

I also picked up this link on Dilman. It show a possible location for the original Garden that was more of a collection of Gardens that later flooded and remains under water.

I am not sure as yet just how much veracity to give it.

With input from some here we might dither things out.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Yet can possess both. So myth can be fictional and contain literal facts

Yes but the literal parts do not usually effect the myth itself.

For instance I can set a myth in Boston, a literally real city, but that city will not have a position in the myth that demands believing that the myth is talking of anything unique to Boston. Boston just become an archetypal location.

Regards
DL

 

[outhouse]

I suggest that the Garden they mythologized they then recreated in their palace complex in Jerusalem where all Jews could enjoy it.

We don't have any evidence of this because the temple was rebuilt over the old one.

It makes sense that they would do so to keep up with other kings in the other city states who built their to show off their power and wealth.

Nope.

The temple was at that time, the most awe inspiring building that would rank with the best. It already had that status.


Outside of mythology, there is nothing that indicates a lavish garden anywhere in Israel before the second temple. Definitely not as described.

 

[Greatest I am]

I tend to think it more likely that the Garden of Eden, along with both the Creation and Fall narratives (and let me add the Flood narrative), are likely allegorical. It's the messages found within (the "meaning behind the words") that are most important.

I agree.

What I am basically looking for is where the myth got started and if there is any veracity to the notion that The Jewish palace complex could have held their Garden of Eden.

So far I like the notions in the first link of the O.P. and I also think the link just above is adding some decent information to ponder.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

While that is true.


Example
We know the flood mythology has a historical core from a Mesopotamian flood on the Euphrates in 2900 BC.

Eden probably is allegorical mythology, containing metaphors and parallels, to teach the important morals and lessons to the people after exile.

We do know all these stories evolved into their current state.

Evolved as in the moral of the story was reversed from man's elevation, to the Jews, to man's fall to the Christians.

From the same text and Christians have been looking silly ever since in trying to sell their fall where none is.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

I have always seen the garden of Eden as a myth.

Wise.

What do you think of it being used by Christianity to denigrate and discriminate against women and help create a misogynous religion?

Regards
DL

 

[outhouse]

From the same text and Christians have been looking silly ever since in trying to sell their fall where none is.

Its the literal interpretation by some, where they go off the rails so to speak.

Many Christians don't have that issue

 

[outhouse]

if there is any veracity to the notion that The Jewish palace complex could have held their Garden of Eden

The first temple was modest compared to what the second temple was.

There was no comparison.


These people early on had no real power and were multi cultural and beat down multiple times, to the point it was amazing they rebuilt their cultures

 

[Greatest I am]

We don't have any evidence of this because the temple was rebuilt over the old one.



Nope.

The temple was at that time, the most awe inspiring building that would rank with the best. It already had that status.


Outside of mythology, there is nothing that indicates a lavish garden anywhere in Israel before the second temple. Definitely not as described.

You are looking for a lavish Garden whereas it was likely just paintings and carvings all over the walls showing off the work of the artisans of the day.

There may have been more but we will likely never know.

It is intuitive though to think that since other kings had their Gardens of Delight within their palace complexes as shown in my first link, that the tradition would be taken up or plagiarized by the Jews since they plagiarized the myth.

If you are to steal a copy of something, may as well go all the way.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Its the literal interpretation by some, where they go off the rails so to speak.

Many Christians don't have that issue

Many Christians do not really believe or act like Christians and just keep the name for tradition and culture.
The Fins for instance claim a 95% Christian population yet only 4% ever go into a church.

That aside, I agree that the literalists are the least likely to find the right message that the writer wanted to give us. Not surprising as idol worshipers do not clutter their mind with intelligent thought.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

The first temple was modest compared to what the second temple was.

There was no comparison.


These people early on had no real power and were multi cultural and beat down multiple times, to the point it was amazing they rebuilt their cultures

I will have to watch my second link again to see if they put numbers, but if I recall, the twelve tribes were required to get the numbers up to where a viable society could begin to grow and prosper. A couple of generations, 50 years of relative peace would do wonders to a population and as vassals of Babylon they had that.

Regards
DL

 

[outhouse]

If you are to steal a copy of something, may as well go all the way.

And I think they did.

But the gardens in Babylon would be a better source to parallel and compete with, so why not create a mythical garden that is no longer in existence since you don't have one of your own.

 

[outhouse]

You are looking for a lavish Garden

Nope


Im looking for evidence of any kind, knowing we have mythology.


So if you want to understand this version, then we ask when. A date is the most important part of what your looking for.

 

[roger1440]

Was the real Jewish Garden of Eden located in Jerusalem?

Of course, just ask the talking serpent.

 

[Desert Snake]

Interesting. The videos didn't change my opinions, though. But, informative.

 

[psychoslice]

Wise.

What do you think of it being used by Christianity to denigrate and discriminate against women and help create a misogynous religion?

Regards
DL

yes when we take such stories as being literally true, we then get stuck, we then have to try and protect our belief, never admitting that we were wrong, and yes much negative thinking has arisen from the belief, that is still affecting people today.

 

[Brickjectivity]

It seems that the Jews were trying to write women and the Goddesses out of their religion just as the Christians did.

I see most of the Western religions as coming out of the East. The East kept some of its female Goddesses but the West cut ours right out. I guess that the Church wanted chattel for it's men and not equal partners.

Don't assume that people do things for the worst possible reasons, because it turns your argument into sludge. Assuming people always act for the worst isn't evidence or even true skepticism. You don't know why the female goddesses were not included, full stop. You don't know why Eden is a myth, and you don't know why there is a story about Eden in the Bible.

 

[metis]

When dealing with writings thousands of years old, written by people we don't know, and also written from subjective viewpoints, there ain't a whole lot that we actually do know.

 

[Muffled]

Was the real Jewish Garden of Eden located in Jerusalem?

Dr. Francesca Stavrakopoulou a biblical scholar thinks so.

When I add in the research being done by archeologist Israel Finkelstein showing what may be the true picture of the ancient Israelites, I too begin to think that the Jewish Eden was in Jerusalem. The God /King would have been from the Levi tribe and a Levi priest who would have been the head of the Jewish Divine Council.

I think that the key is the river Gihon that ties it all together.

What do you think?

Was Eden in Jerusalem and did they have a God/King in charge?

Were all of our Gods and Kings always humans?

Regards
DL

I believe the headwaters of the Euphrates and three other connected rivers are in the present country of Turkey.

I believe Odin may have been in charge at the behest of Yaweh.