Was the real Jewish Garden of Eden located in Jerusalem?

[Greatest I am]

Was the real Jewish Garden of Eden located in Jerusalem?

Dr. Francesca Stavrakopoulou a biblical scholar thinks so.

When I add in the research being done by archeologist Israel Finkelstein showing what may be the true picture of the ancient Israelites, I too begin to think that the Jewish Eden was in Jerusalem. The God /King would have been from the Levi tribe and a Levi priest who would have been the head of the Jewish Divine Council.

I think that the key is the river Gihon that ties it all together.

What do you think?

Was Eden in Jerusalem and did they have a God/King in charge?

Were all of our Gods and Kings always humans?

Regards
DL

 

[Nietzsche]

Not my preferred choice, but beats the **** out of Missouri, let me tell you.

 

[Desert Snake]

Not sure. I never thought it was.

 

[Levite]

Was the real Jewish Garden of Eden located in Jerusalem?

Dr. Francesca Stavrakopoulou a biblical scholar thinks so.

When I add in the research being done by archeologist Israel Finkelstein showing what may be the true picture of the ancient Israelites, I too begin to think that the Jewish Eden was in Jerusalem. The God /King would have been from the Levi tribe and a Levi priest who would have been the head of the Jewish Divine Council.

I think that the key is the river Gihon that ties it all together.

What do you think?

Was Eden in Jerusalem and did they have a God/King in charge?

Were all of our Gods and Kings always humans?

Regards
DL

I would think not.

Personally, I believe that there never was a literal Eden. The whole story is a parable, an allegory. Not meant to be taken literally.

But if it were based on a real place, I doubt it would be Jerusalem, since two of the rivers that are described as bounding Eden are the Euphrates and the Tigris, neither of which is anywhere near Jerusalem, or Israel at all.

 

[Popcorn]

This is what I'm looking at: Genesis 2:10...

"And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads."

Then it goes on about Pison, Gihon, Hiddekel, and Euphrates.

What do those names mean? Is it possible the rivers in the middle east are named after the legend of Eden?

 

[Levite]

This is what I'm looking at: Genesis 2:10...

"And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads."

Then it goes on about Pison, Gihon, Hiddekel, and Euphrates.

What do those names mean? Is it possible the rivers in the middle east are named after the legend of Eden?

Chidekel is the Tigris river. There is no agreement about which are Pishon and Gichon. I have heard speculation of rivers all over the ME, Africa, and Asia.

 

[Ingledsva]

That was very interesting - thanks.

I was happy to hear someone else say the Holy Mountain Eden in Eze28 was an actual place, not the mythic Eden.

I was also happy to see them show that the Jewish Temple comes from a Goddess Temple design, - as the Hebrew originally had a Goddess, - and I have posted the verses where they say they were better of when they worshiped the Goddess.

*

 

[Vishvavajra]

What does "real Garden of Eden" mean? It's a mythical place. It's also geographically impossible if taken literally, as all the major rivers known to the ancient Hebrews flow out of it.

One might as well ask where the "real Asgard" is or the "real island of the Cyclopes."

 

[Desert Snake]

This is what I'm looking at: Genesis 2:10...

"And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads."

Then it goes on about Pison, Gihon, Hiddekel, and Euphrates.

What do those names mean? Is it possible the rivers in the middle east are named after the legend of Eden?

Sure, they could be named after them ,but the most logical conclusion, imo, is that the Garden was elsewhere.

 

[Vishvavajra]

"And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads."

Then it goes on about Pison, Gihon, Hiddekel, and Euphrates.

What do those names mean? Is it possible the rivers in the middle east are named after the legend of Eden?

No, you have it backwards. The rivers in the Eden myth are named after rivers in the Middle East, which were the major rivers known to the authors and their audience.

People were talking about those rivers for a very long time before the Eden myth appeared. Compared to the Mesopotamians and Egyptians, the Hebrews were relative latecomers on the cultural scene and were heavily influenced by both of the former cultures. The Hebrews became culturally influential in time, but in early antiquity nobody was looking to them for the names of things the way people did in later centuries.

 

[Desert Snake]

What does "real Garden of Eden" mean? It's a mythical place. It's also geographically impossible if taken literally, as all the major rivers known to the ancient Hebrews flow out of it.

One might as well ask where the "real Asgard" is or the "real island of the Cyclopes."

Disagree. I think it is literal.

 

[Vishvavajra]

Disagree. I think it is literal.

You think the original authors and audience thought it was literal, or you think the Garden of Eden was a literal, physical place?

The former is somewhat more defensible than the latter, though not much. The latter is utterly indefensible. It's a creation myth, one of a type. The language and narrative structure is that of a fable. The literal facts of the story make no sense if taken at face value. Ancient people would have known better.

 

[Kolibri]

The area where the Garden in the region called Eden likely resided in is an earthquake belt that accounts for about 17% of the world's largest quakes.
Change is the rule for these areas rather than the exception. That fact that we can still identify 2 of the rivers does give us at least an approximation.

 

[Nietzsche]

This is what I'm looking at: Genesis 2:10...

"And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads."

Then it goes on about Pison, Gihon, Hiddekel, and Euphrates.

What do those names mean? Is it possible the rivers in the middle east are named after the legend of Eden?

Chidekel is the Tigris river. There is no agreement about which are Pishon and Gichon. I have heard speculation of rivers all over the ME, Africa, and Asia.

Correct me here if I'm wrong Levite, but isn't the prevailing theory that the rivers most likely had names first and were grafted to the Garden story?

I would think not.

Personally, I believe that there never was a literal Eden. The whole story is a parable, an allegory. Not meant to be taken literally.

But if it were based on a real place, I doubt it would be Jerusalem, since two of the rivers that are described as bounding Eden are the Euphrates and the Tigris, neither of which is anywhere near Jerusalem, or Israel at all.

I've seen some interesting speculation about it being the Nile during one of its "weird" periods, though I still think it more likely that the area described was inspired by modern-day Kuwait.

Fun fact(that I know Levite is aware of, but others may not be): The Middle East used to be downright lush. Then the ice-dams and such broke. It seems like the Eden & Noah stories are both recalling a similar event, namely catastrophic regional-flooding in the Middle East waaaaaay back when. The 'Garden' was most certainly destroyed by that, and has rendered the ME a desert ever since.

 

[gsa]

I was just reading about this today, in one of the notes to Smith's The Origins of Biblical Monotheism. The root for the word "Eden" makes its first appearance in the Baal Cycle, describing what Baal-Hadad, a storm god, does to the earth when he makes it rain: Namely, fertilizes it. Another reference describes Baal/Hadad as the god who makes the earth fertile (m'dn). Still, no strong indication that the priestly redactors who compiled the Genesis account believed Eden was located anywhere in Syria, despite the etymology. They just borrowed and spliced from preexisting narratives to create their own myth.

 

[Desert Snake]

You think the original authors and audience thought it was literal, or you think the Garden of Eden was a literal, physical place?

The former is somewhat more defensible than the latter, though not much. The latter is utterly indefensible. It's a creation myth, one of a type. The language and narrative structure is that of a fable. The literal facts of the story make no sense if taken at face value. Ancient people would have known better.

Both. The story might contain allegory, but the Garden is literal. I believe that it was written to be taken literally, with some allegory. So, not complete made up fiction, but narrative.

 

[Vishvavajra]

Both. The story might contain allegory, but the Garden is literal. I believe that it was written to be taken literally, with some allegory. So, not complete made up fiction, but narrative.

False dichotomy. Myth is neither fiction nor literal fact. It's only modern people who have the idea that something must either be literal fact or else some made-up nonsense. Ancient peoples had no such expectation and knew very well how to construct meaning using myth as a medium.

 

[gsa]

Both. The story might contain allegory, but the Garden is literal. I believe that it was written to be taken literally, with some allegory. So, not complete made up fiction, but narrative.

I don’t know that the editors understood the Garden of Eden to be an existing place that they were describing using their primitive knowledge of geography. I mean, not in the way that we might say, hey, the Garden of Eden is somewhere in Mesopotamia and we can find it if we search hard enough! They certainly understood it to be an accurate description, however poetic and symbolic, of an early state of man, and a justification for their own way of life. Which is why the temple is littered with creation motifs, and why they apparently understood the temple to be a kind of model for Eden. And then they connected it to their other traditions, including genealogy. Similar to the actions taken by various poetically inclined scribes in, say, Greece and Rome.

 

[Levite]

Correct me here if I'm wrong Levite, but isn't the prevailing theory that the rivers most likely had names first and were grafted to the Garden story?

Could well be, but there still isn't agreement on which rivers Pishon and Gichon refer to.

 

[Desert Snake]

False dichotomy. Myth is neither fiction nor literal fact. It's only modern people who have the idea that something must either be literal fact or else some made-up nonsense. Ancient peoples had no such expectation and knew very well how to construct meaning using myth as a medium.

No, I didn't present a false dichotomy. I said, I think that it is a narrative, literal, with some allegory. It is meant to be read literally, not as metaphor.