Watchtower Governing Body: Are They The Exclusive Channel For God??

[Mountain_Climber]

The initial fulfillment of this prophecy occurred in Isreal when the Jews were restored to Jerusalem following the Babylonian exile of the 6th century bce. Jerusalem had been destroyed by King Nebuchadnezzar and its people taken captive to Babylon. (that's what inspired the song 'by the rivers of Babylon' ) But through the prophet Zechariah, Jehovah foretold a restoration...and that happened, its an historical fact printed on the pages of history.

The spiritual fulfillment occurs on Gods people, who from the 1st century now include gentile nations, not only jews. But the entire prophecy is not complete yet because the enemy nations mentioned in the prophecy have not been completely defeated yet. Even the scriptures say that there is a time before God takes action against his enemies:
at Hebrews 10:12 But this man offered one sacrifice for sins for all time and sat down at the right hand of God,+ 13 from then on waiting until his enemies should be placed as a stool for his feet

And remember, to the Christians, the city of Jerusalem was no longer the seat of Gods throne... now it was in heaven
22 But you have approached a Mount Zion+ and a city of the living God, heavenly Jerusalem,+ and myriads* of angels 23 in general assembly,+ and the congregation of the firstborn who have been enrolled in the heavens, and God the Judge of all,+ and the spiritual lives+ of righteous ones who have been made perfect,

The prophecy will be fulfilled finally in the battle of Armageddon when those enemies are placed as a stool for Christs feet. And this is going to be a world-wide event and affect every nation on earth....not just the tiny tract of land located Jerusalem with its tiny number of inhabitants.

(just so you know I post this with the utmost respect for you )

1. Accurate interpretation involves reasonable inference and sound reasoning, among other things. As demonstrated by your unreasonable statement above (Jesus Christ's long-legged split, really?), sound reason is severely lacking. Which brings into question all of your organization's interpretation of scripture. For example:


2. You state my passages contain a dual fulfillment-- a "literal fulfillment" on the "real" nation of Israel in ancient times and a spiritual fulfillment after Christ was born. Let's just take a look at the first prophecy in Zec 14 to see if we can re-expose this erred doctrine by the only organization who claims to have "the truth":

Zec 14:3-4 Then the LORD will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle. 4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south.

Zec 14:5 Then you shall flee through My mountain valley, For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal. Yes, you shall flee As you fled from the earthquake In the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Thus the LORD my God will come, And all the saints with You.
Zec 14:6 It shall come to pass in that day That there will be no light; The lights will diminish.
Zec 14:7 It shall be one day Which is known to the LORD Neither day nor night. But at evening time it shall happen That it will be light.

Zec 14:8-9 And in that day it shall be— That living waters shall flow from Jerusalem, Half of them toward the eastern sea And half of them toward the western sea; In both summer and winter it shall occur. 9 And the LORD shall be King over all the earth. In that day it shall be "The LORD is one," And His name one.
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When did "all" of this "literally" take place anytime in Israel's "real" history after this prophecy was penned (it's in the imperfect future), but before its spiritual fulfillment, which would have occurred sometime "after" Christ was born? That is a relatively small window of time, Pegg. Hope your creative juices are flowing.

​

I placed these two posts together for you both to consider how what james2ko points out takes place spiritually.

How is Jesus able to span such a great distance with his feet?

Because his body which does that standing remains right here on earth and is composed of many members who can spread themselves that far as his feet.

So Pegg, those prophecies are proof that the 144,000 ruling with Christ are right here on earth doing that ruling, taking a firm stand on behalf of Christ as if his feet.

 

[Pegg]

I placed these two posts together for you both to consider how what james2ko points out takes place spiritually.

How is Jesus able to span such a great distance with his feet?

Because his body which does that standing remains right here on earth and is composed of many members who can spread themselves that far as his feet.

And do you also think its a physical fulfillement... will it happen in the city of Jerusalem? How will all the gentile christians be involved?

 

[Mountain_Climber]

Why is it so difficult as yet to see the true church (congregation) of God?

This has to do with what I have long been telling you about 2 Corinthians chapter 5 as compared to 1 Corinthians chapter 3.

It is evident Paul is there at 2 Corinthians 5 really speaking about the tabernacle of the body of Christ which took the sins of the world to itself being constructed of human hands as seen at 1 Corinthians chapter 3.

That body which is sickened by the flesh has slowly been undergoing healing as the flesh cells die out of it and the spiritually sound cells rise up in it to become the entire body, one not built with hands but built with God's spirit.

Until you first see and understand what these chapters are really saying to us your ideas will remain far apart from the truth of the miracle God is working by his spirit right among us.

 

[Mountain_Climber]

And do you also think its a physical fulfillement... will it happen in the city of Jerusalem? How will all the gentile christians be involved?

I don't think it has to be the city of Jerusalem as the literal nation we see today. In fact, that reformation is just an illusion of the adversary to add confusion to the mix.

The New Jerusalem has no boundaries of limitation in this earth and will spread itself earth-wide so that all will have free access to it who remain. And they won't have to travel hundreds or thousands of miles to get to it. That city will exist right where they live, matter not where that is on this globe.

 

[james2ko]

The initial fulfillment of this prophecy occurred in Isreal when the Jews were restored to Jerusalem following the Babylonian exile of the 6th century bce. Jerusalem had been destroyed by King Nebuchadnezzar and its people taken captive to Babylon. (that's what inspired the song 'by the rivers of Babylon' ) But through the prophet Zechariah, Jehovah foretold a restoration...and that happened, its an historical fact printed on the pages of history.

The spiritual fulfillment occurs on Gods people, who from the 1st century now include gentile nations, not only jews. But the entire prophecy is not complete yet because the enemy nations mentioned in the prophecy have not been completely defeated yet. Even the scriptures say that there is a time before God takes action against his enemies:
at Hebrews 10:12 But this man offered one sacrifice for sins for all time and sat down at the right hand of God,+ 13 from then on waiting until his enemies should be placed as a stool for his feet

And remember, to the Christians, the city of Jerusalem was no longer the seat of Gods throne... now it was in heaven
22 But you have approached a Mount Zion+ and a city of the living God, heavenly Jerusalem,+ and myriads* of angels 23 in general assembly,+ and the congregation of the firstborn who have been enrolled in the heavens, and God the Judge of all,+ and the spiritual lives+ of righteous ones who have been made perfect,

The prophecy will be fulfilled finally in the battle of Armageddon when those enemies are placed as a stool for Christs feet. And this is going to be a world-wide event and affect every nation on earth....not just the tiny tract of land located Jerusalem with its tiny number of inhabitants.

(just so you know I post this with the utmost respect for you )

I placed these two posts together for you both to consider how what james2ko points out takes place spiritually.

How is Jesus able to span such a great distance with his feet? Because his body which does that standing remains right here on earth and is composed of many members who can spread themselves that far as his feet.

So Pegg, those prophecies are proof that the 144,000 ruling with Christ are right here on earth doing that ruling, taking a firm stand on behalf of Christ as if his feet.

No. It's because He either has his two feet on one side of the mountain or the other while the mountain splits or has already been split. According to Pegg, this was suppose to have a literal fulfillment in ancient Israel prior to Christ being born. Think for yourself guys...

 

[james2ko]

The initial fulfillment of this prophecy occurred in Isreal when the Jews were restored to Jerusalem following the Babylonian exile of the 6th century bce. Jerusalem had been destroyed by King Nebuchadnezzar and its people taken captive to Babylon. (that's what inspired the song 'by the rivers of Babylon' ) But through the prophet Zechariah, Jehovah foretold a restoration...and that happened, its an historical fact printed on the pages of history.

Is it a historical fact the mount of olives split in two while the LORD "literally" set foot on it (vs 4). Is it a historical fact, the LORD become king over all the earth (vs 9). Is it a historical fact, the plague which dissolved Israel's enemies flesh occurred. Is it a historical fact all the nations that came up against Jerusalem worship the LORD from year to year and keep the feast of tabernacles, Pegg?

Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.
​

There is no record in Israel's history or world history all of these events ever took place . Why? Because it is yet future! Which debunks your organization's interpretation of this doctrine. Do you see what they have done to your thinking?

 

[Mountain_Climber]

When did the mount of olives split in two while the LORD "literally" set foot on the mount of olives (vs 4). When did the LORD become king over all the earth (vs 9). When did the plague which dissolved Israel's enemies flesh occur? When have all the nations that came up against Jerusalem worship the LORD from year to year and keep the feast of tabernacles, Pegg?

Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.
​

They haven't, because it is yet future! Which debunks your organization's interpretation of this doctrine. Do you see what they have done to your thinking?

Daniel 2:35 "Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth."

 

[james2ko]

Daniel 2:35 "Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth."

What in the world does that have to do with the nations worshipping the LORD and keeping the feast of tabernacles, after Israel returned from exile but before Christ was born? It doesn't. Because that verse is also yet future! It meshes perfectly with Zecariah's prophecy that has yet to occur.

 

[Mountain_Climber]

What in the world does that have to do with the nations worshipping the LORD and keeping the feast of tabernacles, after Israel returned from exile but before Christ was born? It doesn't. Because that verse is also in the future! It meshes perfectly with Zecariah's future prophecy.

Isaiah 66:1 "Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?"

 

[james2ko]

Isaiah 66:1 "Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?"

Quoting one verse without checking the context is unwise:

Isa 66:15 For behold, the LORD will come with fire And with His chariots, like a whirlwind, To render His anger with fury, And His rebuke with flames of fire.
Isa 66:16 For by fire and by His sword The LORD will judge all flesh; And the slain of the LORD shall be many.
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You're actually refuting Pegg's position claiming these events occurred after the exile but before Christ was born: When did the LORD literally return to Israel after the exile but before Christ was born, in this manner to judge all flesh?

​

 

[Mountain_Climber]

In the original Jerusalem the footstool which pictures this earth existed:2 Chronicles 9:18 "And there were six steps to the throne, with a footstool of gold, which were fastened to the throne, and stays on each side of the sitting place, and two lions standing by the stays:

Psalms 99:5 "Exalt ye the LORD our God, and worship at his footstool; for he is holy."

So we know that the New Jerusalem is a spiritual city, wherein the entire cleansed earth will reside.

When God strikes this earth it is as was pictured here:Lamentations 2:1 "How hath the Lord covered the daughter of Zion with a cloud in his anger, and cast down from heaven unto the earth the beauty of Israel, and remembered not his footstool in the day of his anger!"

 

[Mountain_Climber]

Quoting one verse without checking the context is unwise:

Isa 66:15 For behold, the LORD will come with fire And with His chariots, like a whirlwind, To render His anger with fury, And His rebuke with flames of fire.
Isa 66:16 For by fire and by His sword The LORD will judge all flesh; And the slain of the LORD shall be many.
​

You're actually refuting Pegg's position claiming these events occurred after the exile but before Christ was born: When did the LORD literally return to Israel after the exile in this manner to judge all flesh before Christ was born?

​

I am refuting Pegg's position.

Yes. I agree with you that the fulfillment is yet future and right here on earth,

But Pegg expressed that she seems to think I believe that fulfillment has to do with that political nation of Israel we see today, when the fact is, though I would have good reason for wanting to see that nation as God's Israel, no, I know that nation is not the real Israel of God.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

The spiritual fulfillment occurs on Gods people, who from the 1st century now include gentile nations, not only jews. But the entire prophecy is not complete yet because the enemy nations mentioned in the prophecy have not been completely defeated yet.

Are the enemy nations referred to here, Christendom?

 

[Katzpur]

The Watchtower (started by one man) much like Mormonism and other sects outside of Christianity, believes in the false doctrine of that man.

I must have missed the memo putting you in charge of determining which denominations are Christians and which aren't. At any rate, here's my response to you: I am every bit as much a Christian as you are.

 

[JFish123]

The 33,000 christian denominations Lie that JW's and Catholics believe

 

[JFish123]

Crisis of Conscience is a biographical book by Raymond Franz, a former member of the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, written in 1983, three years after his expulsion from the Jehovah's Witnesses religion.
Franz spent 43 years as a Jehovah's Witness, serving as a full-time preacher in the United States and a missionary in Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic. In 1965 he became a member of the religion's headquarters staff in Brooklyn, New York, where he was assigned to help research and write the Bible encyclopedia Aid to Bible Understanding and in 1971 appointed as a member of the religion's Governing Body. He left the Governing Body in 1980 after a high-level inquiry was launched into allegations that several headquarters staff including Franz were spreading "wrong teachings". He moved to Alabama where he took up farm laboring work and was expelled from the religion in November 1981 for breaching an edict that Witnesses shun individuals who have formally resigned from the religion.
The book provided a critical view of Watch Tower Society leadership and its requirements of members, gave Franz's perspective on failed expectations among the Witness community that Armageddon would take place in 1975 and his views on fundamental Witness teachings on the significance of 1914 and continued expectations of Armageddon. It also gave his account of the events surrounding his expulsion from the religion. Former Witness James Penton, who included the book in the bibliography of his 1985 history of the Witness movement, described the book as "remarkably informative" and "thoroughly documented" and noted it was "written more in a tone of sadness than of anger". English sociologist Andrew Holden described the book as one of the most compelling biographical works on defection from Jehovah's Witnesses.

 

[JFish123]

Only truth is an effective test for truth.

This is the story of Daniel Grissom:
In 1997, I started studying with the Jehovah’s Witnesses. They were so sincere, so studious and so kind. After a year or so, I began going out in field service as an un-baptized member. I was Brother Grissom.

And, I was an eighty-eight percenter. What’s that mean? Well, it means that I believed the Jehovah’s Witnesses were 88% right about God’s Word. What about the other 12%? Great question. Well, I wasn’t sure about the accuarcy about their interpretations on Jesus, the Anointed and other matters.

And so, I looked hard and long for the facts. And you know what? They were extremely hard to find, especially during that time which was pre-internet. In the final analysis, I did find the facts about that 12%. And much to my chagrin, I discovered that the Jehovah’s Witnesses were actually 12% right and 88% wrong about God’s Word. I had gotten my percentages mixed-up!

Don’t you do the same. And to help you and your loved ones, I created this website to help people find the facts in a clear, concise and compelling manner. All meat, no fat!

Today, I am a baptized Christian and a member of Cross Pointe Church in Duluth, GA. Cross Pointe Sugarloaf | Love God, Serve Others, Share Your Story I am an author and a student. I am an owner of a sales training company and I am a servant. My mission is life is to be a friend to God and to you. My name is Daniel Grissom. Daniel Grissom

 

[JFish123]

10 Questions from a Former Jehovahs Witness (not me):
1. Christ Jesus is not their mediator but the governing body/organization is. (Compare 1 Timothy 2:5)

2. They accept the organization as Gods sole “channel” of truth not relying on Holy Spirit themselves. (Compare John 14:16,17)

3. They believe the Watchtower contains Gods truth, directed by Holy Spirit. Without it one cannot understand the Bible. (Compare John 14:6and 1 John 2:27)

4. They claim to be Christian but the vast majority reject Christ Blood and flesh and they do this in a ritualistic fashion every memorial of Christ death by passing the bread and wine among themselves and not eating it. Even the speaker must touch the plate or the cup and reject it for all to see. (Compare John 6:53)

5. They use the name Jehovah over Yahweh but will agree Yahweh is more accurate. (Compare Romans 10:2,3)

6. They demand 100% unity at all cost and will disfellowship members if they disagree with any doctrine. (Compare Jude 22)

7. They claim they were approved and chosen by Christ Jesus in 1918 to do Gods will. However their teachings at the time and mistakes since then prove this could not be true. (Compare Matthew 24:4,11,23-27)

8. They let their loved ones die imposing their doctrinal ban on blood transfusions based on the law covenant. However people broke the law covenant when lives were at stake. Such as saving a life of a sheep or human on the sabbath. King David broke the law to save his men. (Compare John 5:17-18, Mark 2:25-28and Mark 7:15)

9. They have ruined thousands of peoples lives by disfellowshipping members without “saying a greeting” to them. Misapplying 2 John 10that says not to ‘greet’ the Antichrist. This they started in 1952 in order to control their members.
(Compare 2 Thess. 3:14, 15and 1 Thess. 5:14)

10. They are known as being false prophets for their many false predictions going back over 150 years. They predicted the end would come in 1914, 1975 and the generation alive in 1914 would not die off before the end. Of course time has ran out on their “generation” understanding so this they have changed. ( Compare Matthew 24:11and Matthew 23:15)

If you are a Jehovah’s Witness we would like to recommend that you ask God for his Holy Spirit to guide you. Please do not close your eyes to important facts you can find freely on the internet today about Jehovah’s Witnesses. The truth has nothing to fear. Maybe you became a JW years before these facts were accessible like they are today online. The prophet Daniel was told that many would “rove about” (Daniel 12:4) looking for knowledge at the time of the end. Do you “rove about” or do you put your head in the sand when it comes to examining your own religion? We encourage you to look online and ask questions. This was written by a former Jehovah Witness. (Please read John 14:6)

 

[Wharton]

The 33,000 christian denominations Lie that JW's and Catholics believe

Actually, there are more than 33,000. Pass it on to your friend.

I'll let the boy who started it all, Martin Luther, quote it for you:

"This one will not hear of Baptism, and that one denies the sacrament, another puts a world between this and the last day: some teach that Christ is not God, some say this, some say that: there are as many sects and creeds as there are heads. No yokel is so rude but when he has dreams and fancies, he thinks himself inspired by the Holy Ghost and must be a prophet.

 

[Pegg]

When did the mount of olives split in two while the LORD "literally" set foot on the mount of olives (vs 4). When did the LORD become king over all the earth (vs 9). When did the plague which dissolved Israel's enemies flesh occur? When have all the nations that came up against Jerusalem worship the LORD from year to year and keep the feast of tabernacles, Pegg?

Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.
​

They haven't, because it is yet future! Which debunks your organization's interpretation of this doctrine. Do you see what they have done to your thinking?

No. It's because He either has his two feet on one side of the mountain or the other while the mountain splits or has already been split. According to Pegg, this was suppose to have a literal fulfillment in ancient Israel prior to Christ being born. Think for yourself guys...

I said some of the prophecy is yet to be fulfilled. The verses relating to the Messiah are only partially fulfilled, the splitting of the mountain is not yet fulfilled because it is associated with the time when God comes with his holy ones, or holy angels to fight against his enemies. That is still future.

Some of it was fulfilled in the restoration of Jerusalem after it was laid desolate by Babylon in the 6th century bce.