1. Ok we get it......Good logic isn't exactly a JW strength, but it's ok to stop contradicting yourself.
If you would just stop and actually read what I wrote, you would see that there were no sects in Christianity in the beginning....just as there were no sects in Judaism to begin with either. Sectarianism is an invention of men, not God. It divides people...it doesn't unite them.
It wasn't until after the death of the apostles that apostate ideas crept into Christian teaching.....a time that would see the "weeds" that Jesus foretold, begin to infiltrate the Christian congregation in greater numbers. This is something that Paul warned about when he said that Christ's followers should all be of 'one mind and one set of beliefs'. (1 Cor 1:10)
He was not talking about the false beliefs that infiltrated later from Catholicism, that are retained by Christendom to the present day, (even among Protestant denominations.)
What is a denomination? It is a sect. Jesus does not recognise "versions" of his teachings.
2. The sects or groups themselves were not condemn. It was the behavior of certain individuals within the sects that Jesus condemned:
Mat 23:2 "The teachers of religious law and the Pharisees are the official interpreters of the law of Moses.
Mat 23:3 So practice and obey whatever they tell you, but don't follow their example. For they don't practice what they teach.
If Christ thought the entire sect of the scribes and Pharisees were corrupt, Christ would have discouraged the people from obeying them. Yet he encouraged obedience to their commands with a disclaimer not to follow their examples of hypocrisy. You are suppose to be the only channel for God and you do not know this?
Why would Jesus call their teachings "leaven" (something synonymous with corruption) if he approved of what they taught?
To the extent that they taught what God's word mandated according to the Law of Moses, to that extent only were they to be followed. But what they taught is not what they practiced.
This finds a parallel with Christendom's shepherds....they do not practice what they preach either.
Christ taught his disciples to be "no part of the world" yet you will find various "Christian" denominations meddling in politics in almost every western nation.
He taught us to 'love our enemies', yet the churches support the bloodshed of their nations, with the full blessing of the clergy. In fact the two World Wars of last century could not have been fought without their support, in effect praying the troops into the trenches by telling them that God was with them. Whose side was God on, when he had already told his worshippers "thou shalt not kill"? We know that "kill" in this instance means "murder", which is the unsanctioned taking of human life. There is much unsanctioned blood on their hands. (Isa 1:15) Nations have no mandate to murder, yet they do it in a wholesale fashion.
We are taught not to adopt pagan elements into our worship, and yet most of what Christendom accepts as "Christian" festivals and celebrations are straight out of the pagan world...not from the Bible. (2 Cor 6:14-18)
3. That's nice. But you didn't answer the question. Let's try it again: The individual or group in Mar 9 was not united with Jesus' group. According to your interpretation of unity and division, Jesus should have condemned him. So why didn't He?
The man was not joined to the apostles or other followers of Jesus at that time, but since there were no sects in Christianity, (because there was no Christianity at that point) he was not a member of a rival sect....he was personally experiencing the power of the name of Jesus Christ....something Jesus did not condemn because he knew where it would lead him. He would of necessity have come in contact and joined the ranks of fellow Christians if he wanted to belong to "The Way"......there was just one "way"...not many. He was not free to start up his own church. (Heb 10:24, 25)
4. Jesus began an exclusive sect of what---- Christianity or Judaism? (I'd be careful how I answer this one)
Why do I need to be careful? The answer is obvious.
Neither. Jesus came to cleanse the worship of his Father among his own chosen people, now thoroughly corrupted.
Judaism had apostatised, so it was not viewed as true worship when Jesus came to the earth. He went to the "lost sheep of the house of Israel" in order to gather together out of them a cleansed people who would obey his teachings...those teachings were designed to educate humble Jews in true worship, not the sham worship promoted by the Pharisees and Saducees. What followed later was "Christianity"...not a new religion, but a cleansed form of the old. The people were still worshipping Israel's God....Jesus' God. What was missing was the old law covenant because Jesus' death had fulfilled it, releasing God's people from its curse. (The inability to keep it perfectly) The law of love now impelled Christ's disciples to follow Christ's steps as their model. Their primary activity was to preach about God's kingdom.
5. Not two kinds of religion, two kinds of people within the Christian religion. True and false worship are subjective concepts of human thinking. The only one who is qualified to undeniably distinguish between true and false worship is Christ--not earthly human beings in a finite organization.
And yet, God always managed to have a people separated out for his own worship and purpose, even if they did not remain on track for long....human nature being what it is, they will always end up doing things their own way....not God's way.
It is up to us to see what God requires and join ourselves to those who are "doing the will of the Father". By our choices we are telling God how much "his way" means to us.
We do our best to interpret and apply the text with the limited knowledge and understanding (1 co 13:9) God has given each sect and or individual. Meanwhile, we must grow in love for all mankind, which is a lot harder to instill than some doctrinal position, until full understanding is revealed (1 Co 13:10) at the return of Christ.
By the time Christ returns in any visible form...it will be too late. There will be no time for changing our mind then. His return was unseen and unrealised by the majority of "Christians" for the simple reason that they refused the cleansing that God offered to his people at that time and ignored the signs he gave to indicate his "presence" as king.
Just as the Jews refused to believe Jesus, so Christendom has refused to believe the things taught by God's true worshippers in this "time of the end". (Dan 12:4, 9, 10; Matt 24:36-39)
6. Wait a sec. You claim the statement made by Christ in Mar 9:38-40 does not apply to Christians today because the guy was a Jew under the law of Moses, but a statement made to Jews under the same law of Moses in Mat 7:21-23 does apply to Christians today??? You guys are hilarious . This is what happens when you blindly follow an organization and don't think for yourselves. You start tripping over your own fallacious rhetoric.
7. The individuals Jesus spoke to in Mat 7:21-23 were also Jewish and Christianity had not yet formed. Applying your twisted logic of Mar 9:38-40, the sermon on the mount can not apply to Christians today either
Or it is hilarious only to those "blinded" to the way it really is. (2 Cor 4:3, 4) What if "the blind leading the blind" is Christendom in its many sects happily travelling down the wrong road? (2 Thess 2:9-12)
How many of the Jews that cursed themselves with the blood of Christ actually believed that he was the real son of God? (Matt 25:27:24, 25) The majority of the people of that nation, who were supposed to be God's chosen ones, lost out on what God was offering them. (Matt 24:37-39) Who was to blame for that?
Since the words of Jesus in Matt 7:21-23 apply at the judgment, it is a sad thing indeed that you do not discern the timing of his words and whom he is addressing. The fallacious reasoning is all yours I'm afraid.
8. This "us" versus "them" attitude is precisely what Jesus taught against in Mar 9:38-40. May God one day give you the eyes to see and ears to hear.
There has always been an "us" verses "them". As soon as men turned worship into rival systems....you have an "us and them". Jesus said we had to determine who is right and who is wrong by the "fruits" (actions) that we see them demonstrate in obedience to Christ's teachings. Not just picking and choosing what they will do and what they can justify their way out of. If the Christian way was to be cramped and narrow.....where is the hardship for Christendom? Where is the hatred for doing what Jesus commanded? (John 15:18-21) Who were the enemies of Jesus?...his own people....those who claimed to worship the same God. History repeats.
I was once a member of Christendom, blind like all the rest....I have had my eyes and ears opened already...thank you.
I see clearly who is obeying the Christ and who is not.
No way I could go back into ignorance again.
