Watchtower Governing Body: Are They The Exclusive Channel For God??

[Pegg]

GOD no longer speaks DIRECTLY to men like He did Jeremiah and other prophets.

Men like Jeremiah spoke to the people as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

Men like Jeremiah were INSPIRED. The GB is NOT!

In your quote above, Watchtower states that Jehovah does not communicate directly with anyone today. Yet they claim that the organization is spirit directed. They contradict themselves.

1. Watchtower - "God does not communicate directly with any one today."

2. Watchtower - "We are God's only spirit directed organization."

See the problem?

What do you think it means to be spirit directed?

 

[Pegg]

NEVER! No one is DIRECTED by the Holy Spirit today.

Every christian is guided into truth by the Holy Spirit, but many reject that truth in favor of what men teach.

That's why we have so many denominations.

I pray and examine the Scriptures daily to be sure that what I'm being told is true. There are times when I have told our elders that something they said was their opinion and not fact. We should always feel free to challenge. Do I have 100% perfect understanding? No, I don't. No one does. All I can do is to keep studying. That's what our GOD wants us to do.

I don't know that any denomination has perfect understanding of the truth, but I identify with those I believe come closest to what the Scriptures teach.

If you accept that no one has perfect understanding yet still guided into the truth by holy spirit, why do you condemn the Watchtower for the teachings they have made adjustments to?

 

[katiemygirl]

If you accept that no one has perfect understanding yet still guided into the truth by holy spirit, why do you condemn the Watchtower for the teachings they have made adjustments to?

Adjustments?

The history of the organization shows more than "adjustments." There have been major doctrinal changes, flip flops.

God's word is forever. There is no need to adjust His teachings. Unlike during earliest church times, we have God's fully disclosed will in His word. They didn't have it all bound together in a neat little book like we do. His truth was still being revealed to His spokespersons.

It seems Watchtower talks out of two sides of its face.

1. No one is directed by the Holy Spirit today.

2. Watchtower is Jehovah's only spirit directed organization.

Which is it?

 

[Awoon]

GOD no longer speaks DIRECTLY to men like He did Jeremiah and other prophets.

Men like Jeremiah spoke to the people as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

Men like Jeremiah were INSPIRED. The GB is NOT!

In your quote above, Watchtower states that Jehovah does not communicate directly with anyone today. Yet they claim that the organization is spirit directed. They contradict themselves.

1. Watchtower - "God does not communicate directly with any one today."

2. Watchtower - "We are God's only spirit directed organization."

See the problem?

Acts 2: 16, 17, 18, 38, 39 contradicts the above. The Spirit has been given to ALL flesh.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

God communicates to all of us through His word. That is indirect communication, not direct.

So the GB is a indirectly Spirit directed organization?

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Ok great. They were the Governing body of the christian congregation back then in the first century. And today, we Jehovahs Witnesses also have a governing body who direct our preaching work and organise our congregations/assemblies/conventions/teaching program/distribution of funds etc etc etc.

Who directs the denomination you are apart of?

The "GB" of the first spoke and taught as the Spirit led them. The GB of today speak and teach what they think they understand as a truth it's followers are commanded to accept. The apostles never demanded that everyone believe them.

 

[kjw47]

First, The Holy Spirit is a person. It is recognized that the three primary attributes of personality are mind, emotions, and will. A "force" does not have these attributes. However the Holy Soirit does.
The Holy Spirit has a Mind:
This is made clear in a number of passages. For example, the Holy Spirits intellect is seen in 1 Corinthians 2:10, where we are told that "the Spirit searches everything" (compare with Isaiah 11:2, Ephesians 1:17). The Greek word for "searches" means to thoroughly investigate a matter. The Holy Spirit investigates the things of God and makes these matters known to believers. Note that Jesus once told a group of Jews, "you search the scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life." (John 5:39) The Lord used the same Greek word there that is used in 1 Corinthians 2:10. We are also told in 1 Corinthians 2:11 that the Holy Spirit KNOWS the thoughts of God. How can the Spirit know the things of God if it doesn't have a mind? A Force does not know things. Thought processes require the presence of a mind.
The Holy Spirit has Emotions:
Like before, it is clear in a number of verses but for example, in Ephesians 4:30 we are admonished, "Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of a God." Grief is an emotion, and emotions cannot be experienced by a force. Grief is something one feels. To illustrate my point, it is noteworthy that the Corinthian believers experienced SORROW after the Apostle Paul wrote them a stern letter (2 Corinthians 2:2,5). There we see the same Greek word that is used in Ephesians 4:30 (translated as grieve). Just as the Corinthian believers experienced sorrow and grief, so the person of the Holy Spirit can experience sorrow and grief.
The Holy Spirit has a Will:
We are told in 1 Corinthians 12:11 that the Holy Spirit distributes spiritual gifts "to each one individually AS HE WILLS. The phrase "He Wills" translates from the Greek word bouletai, which refers to "decisions of the will after previous deliberation." The Holy Spirit makes a Sovereign choice regarding what spiritual gifts each respective Christian receives. It is also noteworthy that the same Greek word used to describe the Holy Spirits will is used to describe Jehovah Gods will in James 1:18. The last key example is found in Acts 16:6 where the Holy Spirit forbids Paul to preach in Asia and them redirects him to minister in Europe.
Also, if that's not enough, the Holy Spirit confirms His personality as He:
Teaching believers (John 14:26)
Testifies about Christ (John 15:26)
Guides believers (Romans 8:14)
Commissions people (Acts 13:4)
Issues commands (Acts 8:29)
He restrains sin (Genesis 6:3)
Intercedes or prays (Romans 8:26)
He speaks to people (John 15:26, and 2 Peter 1:21)
So how do you reconcile what the Watchtower says that the Holy Spirit is just a force when the Word of God says the Spirit can do things that only a person can do such as pray for believers, speak to people, issue commands, bear witness, and teach people?
And (won't go into detail as long enough post already) the Holy Spirit is treated as a person as He can...
Be grieved (Ephesians 4:30)
Can be blasphemed (Matthew 12:32)
-quick study shows that the Father and Son can Also be blasphemed just like the Holy Spirit.
Can be lied to (Acts 5:3)
Can be obeyed (Acts 13;2)
Is sent (John 14:26)
Finally here's a brief conversation with a JW:
Christian: Do you believe Satan is a spiritual person?
JW: Yes.
Christian: Do you believe satan is a person because he has the qualifying attributes of a person?
JW: I suppose do but what do you mean?
Christian: would you agree that in order to qualify as a person, one must be able to think, act, communicate and have a will?
JW: Yes, satan can do all those things.
Christian: then why don't you believe the Holy Spirit is a person as the Bible teaches He has all the attributes of a person?

The HS doesn't have a personal name--Why? Every being has a personal name.
Every important teaching where the Father and son are spoken of together--The HS gets 0 mention--Why?

 

[kjw47]

The "GB" of the first spoke and taught as the Spirit led them. The GB of today speak and teach what they think they understand as a truth it's followers are commanded to accept. The apostles never demanded that everyone believe them.

Luke 10:16

 

[katiemygirl]

So the GB is a indirectly Spirit directed organization?

I've explained my position in other posts.

No one is "directed" by God apart from His word. I don't know of a better way to say it.

The prophets and apostles were directed, inspired by the Holy Spirit. No one today is inspired.

 

[JFish123]

every trinitiarian scholar refutes the use of the name of God because it confuses people.

I have taken that to heart and I support the clear identification of Jehovah and the insertion of his name in his written word.

That is very noble and all but the name Jehovah doesn't appear in any legitimate Greek of Hebrew manuscripts. The name Jehovah was made by superstitious Jews who feared taking Gods name in vain, so the superstitious Jewish scribes joined the consonants YHWY with the vowels do Adonai. The result was Yahowah, or Jehovah.

 

[katiemygirl]

The HS doesn't have a personal name--Why? Every being has a personal name.
Every important teaching where the Father and son are spoken of together--The HS gets 0 mention--Why?

Jesus called the Holy Spirit "Counselor," "Comforter," and "Spirit of truth."

You assume that all three must be always mentioned together.

Why should the Spirit always be mentioned along with the Father and Son? The Father is often mentioned without the Son, and the Son is often mentioned without any mention of the Father or the Holy Spirit.

The book of Acts often mentions the work of the Holy Spirit without reference to the Father or the Son.

So what is your point? What have you proven?

 

[JFish123]

I'll let you in on a little secret... there is not one english bible which is 100% correctly translated. Every bible you use has translation errors and biases.

One translator may choose different words or sentences, but the message is identical. Translation is a reliable science of communicating between different languages. Remember, it was God Himself who created all the language barriers in Genesis 11 at the Tower of Babel. God is satisfied that His inspired word can be maintained although translated into over 200 languages.
And Although the exact choice of words or sentence structure is different in each translation, the meaning is identical. Take the words of Jesus in Mark 16:16 from three "versions" as an example;
NIV: "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved".
KJV: "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved".
NAS: "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved"
Different words and sentences but the meaning is identical. To blame religious division on the fact there are different Bible versions, therefore, is incorrect. The view that each translation of the Bible conveys a different message is also incorrect. There is only one Bible message that has been translated into hundreds of different languages.
However only the Watchtower in its New World Translation actively Changes the meaning of verses to fit it's own ideology. Which is why so many degreed scholars from all over the world have said it's corrupted by mans own hands.

 

[JFish123]

The HS doesn't have a personal name--Why? Every being has a personal name.
Every important teaching where the Father and son are spoken of together--The HS gets 0 mention--Why?

Does the fact that the Holy Spirit not have a name mean He's not an actual person? By no means. Spiritual beings are not always named in scripture. More often than not, they are identified by their particular character-that is for demons they are called "unclean, "wicked", and so forth. Likewise the Holy Spirit is identified by His character which is "Holiness."
Also to note that the Watchtower uses the following Greek authorities in their literature- F.F. Bruce, A.T. Robertson, John N. Darby, Marvin R. Vincent, and W.E. Vine. And yet All of them believe that the Holy Spirit is a person.
And Jesus talked about the Holy Spirit on very important topics where He discussed the Father as well. The Holy Spirit is taught by Jesus with important teaching and promise. For instance, in three important chapters—John 14 through 16—the Lord Jesus opened His heart for the last time to His disciples. With compelling love, He poured out His soul. Shortly He would pour out His Spirit upon the disciples. In the record of His last hours with persons He had chosen to be with Him, and with words full of compassion, He spoke to them as friends. What He said was full of insight into what the Holy Spirit would mean in their lives after He went back to His Father.
These include testifying about Jesus in John 15:26:
"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me."
Another time Jesus talked about the Holy Spirit is in a statement about His Resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and that it will be preached everywhere. You can't get any more important then that.
45 Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures.
46 He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day,
47 and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
48 You are witnesses of these things.
49 I AM GOING TO SEND YOU WHAT MY FATHER HAS PROMISED; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high."
And as well as an important teaching if any, He talks about the Holy Spirit in being born again in John 3:6-8:
6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.
7 You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.'
8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."
So with the most important teachings Jesus ever taught (His death and resurrection, The forgiveness of sins, the Great Commission, being born again) He talked about the Hy Spirit in those same verses.

 

[katiemygirl]

Does the fact that the Holy Spirit not have a name mean He's not an actual person? By no means. Spiritual beings are not always named in scripture. More often than not, they are identified by their particular character-that is for demons they are called "unclean, "wicked", and so forth. Likewise the Holy Spirit is identified by His character which is "Holiness."
Also to note that the Watchtower uses the following Greek authorities in their literature- F.F. Bruce, A.T. Robertson, John N. Darby, Marvin R. Vincent, and W.E. Vine. And yet All of them believe that the Holy Spirit is a person.
And Jesus talked about the Holy Spirit on very important topics where He discussed the Father as well. The Holy Spirit is taught by Jesus with important teaching and promise. For instance, in three important chapters—John 14 through 16—the Lord Jesus opened His heart for the last time to His disciples. With compelling love, He poured out His soul. Shortly He would pour out His Spirit upon the disciples. In the record of His last hours with persons He had chosen to be with Him, and with words full of compassion, He spoke to them as friends. What He said was full of insight into what the Holy Spirit would mean in their lives after He went back to His Father.
These include testifying about Jesus in John 15:26:
"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me."
Another time Jesus talked about the Holy Spirit is in a statement about His Resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and that it will be preached everywhere. You can't get any more important then that.
45 Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures.
46 He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day,
47 and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
48 You are witnesses of these things.
49 I AM GOING TO SEND YOU WHAT MY FATHER HAS PROMISED; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high."
And as well as an important teaching if any, He talks about the Holy Spirit in being born again in John 3:6-8:
6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.
7 You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.'
8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."
So with the most important teachings Jesus ever taught (His death and resurrection, The forgiveness of sins, the Great Commission, being born again) He talked about the Hy Spirit in those same verses.

Amen JFish123! Your last two posts are excellent! Thank you.

 

[kjw47]

Does the fact that the Holy Spirit not have a name mean He's not an actual person? By no means. Spiritual beings are not always named in scripture. More often than not, they are identified by their particular character-that is for demons they are called "unclean, "wicked", and so forth. Likewise the Holy Spirit is identified by His character which is "Holiness."
Also to note that the Watchtower uses the following Greek authorities in their literature- F.F. Bruce, A.T. Robertson, John N. Darby, Marvin R. Vincent, and W.E. Vine. And yet All of them believe that the Holy Spirit is a person.
And Jesus talked about the Holy Spirit on very important topics where He discussed the Father as well. The Holy Spirit is taught by Jesus with important teaching and promise. For instance, in three important chapters—John 14 through 16—the Lord Jesus opened His heart for the last time to His disciples. With compelling love, He poured out His soul. Shortly He would pour out His Spirit upon the disciples. In the record of His last hours with persons He had chosen to be with Him, and with words full of compassion, He spoke to them as friends. What He said was full of insight into what the Holy Spirit would mean in their lives after He went back to His Father.
These include testifying about Jesus in John 15:26:
"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me."
Another time Jesus talked about the Holy Spirit is in a statement about His Resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and that it will be preached everywhere. You can't get any more important then that.
45 Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures.
46 He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day,
47 and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
48 You are witnesses of these things.
49 I AM GOING TO SEND YOU WHAT MY FATHER HAS PROMISED; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high."
And as well as an important teaching if any, He talks about the Holy Spirit in being born again in John 3:6-8:
6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.
7 You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.'
8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."
So with the most important teachings Jesus ever taught (His death and resurrection, The forgiveness of sins, the Great Commission, being born again) He talked about the Hy Spirit in those same verses.

There are teachers who teach the hs is a person, then there are teachers who have the HS and teach it is not a person.
Every mortal on the planet that actually has learned and applied every teaching from Jesus, knows 100% for sure--the JW teachers are correct.
Do you know all of them, are you taught them by your teachers? Do you want me to show you how blind trinity teachers are--it is very simple--a single teaching from Jesus proves they do not know him, nor do they teach what he taught.

For years many have been starving to death all over the earth--trinity based religions give them a temporary handout, but then in turn fail 100% of the time to share with them, the permanent fix which Jesus gave to all freely--Why do you think they refuse to share this ultra important truth to those who are starving????

Matt 6:33-- Therefore, keep on seeking--FIRST-- the kingdom and his( Jehovah) righteousness, and all these other things will be added( sustenance, covering, spirituality)--- a promise from Jesus in Matt 6 that the Father would provide these 3 things daily if one applied this single teaching.
I guarantee everyone that actually knows Jesus and what he taught would make 100% for sure each learned this ultra important truth deep into their hearts.
A showy display of a temporary fix gets them nowhere--the permanent fix is the solution.

 

[JFish123]

There are teachers who teach the hs is a person, then there are teachers who have the HS and teach it is not a person.
Every mortal on the planet that actually has learned and applied every teaching from Jesus, knows 100% for sure--the JW teachers are correct.
Do you know all of them, are you taught them by your teachers? Do you want me to show you how blind trinity teachers are--it is very simple--a single teaching from Jesus proves they do not know him, nor do they teach what he taught.

For years many have been starving to death all over the earth--trinity based religions give them a temporary handout, but then in turn fail 100% of the time to share with them, the permanent fix which Jesus gave to all freely--Why do you think they refuse to share this ultra important truth to those who are starving????

Matt 6:33-- Therefore, keep on seeking--FIRST-- the kingdom and his( Jehovah) righteousness, and all these other things will be added( sustenance, covering, spirituality)--- a promise from Jesus in Matt 6 that the Father would provide these 3 things daily if one applied this single teaching.
I guarantee everyone that actually knows Jesus and what he taught would make 100% for sure each learned this ultra important truth deep into their hearts.
A showy display of a temporary fix gets them nowhere--the permanent fix is the solution.

People in charity of Christian organizations like Samaritans Purse do share Jesus when oversees or here at home helping people through tragedy. So I don't know where this baseless comment is coming from.
Secondly those who study the scriptures from all over the world have shown in the Greek and Hebrew time and time again that the New World translation is biased toward presuppositions in their theology and therefor man made and wrong, even deceitful. And that's a shame. Because I know JW's and they have a real love for Jesus but they are being fed by an organization that is feeding them a deceitful gospel which will only hurt them when they stand before Christ. He is God. So sadly, the fear for all those JW's I have is when they see Jesus and say, "Well, I went door to door preaching for you and helping people for you and delivering for you." And He will say to them, "I never knew you. As you didn't know me." For since He is God clearly shown on the scriptures, and you deny that, and even teach people to deny that, how could you truly know Him if you deny a central tenet of who He is? How will you escape the judgment to come?
I'm afraid and my heart goes out for there will be people in hell who lived for Jesus but didn't really live with Him, by truly knowing him. And they will feel rage for being deceived by the Watchtower, but it will be a realization that will come to late.
I do not want that to happen to ANY one especially not a Jehovahs Witness. But the more they believe in the Watchtower, I'm afraid they Less they believe In what the Word of God actually says and means.

 

[savagewind]

zation that is feeding them a deceitful gospel which will only hurt them when they stand before Christ. He is God. .

If Jesus is God, then God did not give kingdom rule to anyone but God's own self. Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. So you have made the word of God invalid.

WHO gave God all authority?

 

[james2ko]

if thats the case, why does he have some believing in a hellfire, others believing in a rapture, others purgatory, trinity, eternal souls....why all these different beliefs if God is directing them all? That simply cannot be true. The house is too divided for it to be of God.

William Schnell, author and former Jehovah's Witness, claims that three-quarters of the original Bible Students who had been associating with the Watch Tower Society in 1921 had left by 1931.[4][a][6] In 1930 Rutherford stated that "the total number of those who have withdrawn from the Society... is comparatively large."[7]
Between 1918 and 1929, several factions formed their own independent fellowships, including the Standfast Movement, the Pastoral Bible Institute, the Laymen's Home Missionary Movement founded by PSL Johnson, and the Dawn Bible Students Association. These groups range from conservative, claiming to be Russell's true followers, to more liberal, claiming that Russell's role is not as important as once believed.[8] Rutherford's faction of the movement retained control of the Watch Tower Society source:Bible Student movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
​

Welcome to true Christendom, Pegg!

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Does the fact that the Holy Spirit not have a name mean He's not an actual person? By no means. Spiritual beings are not always named in scripture. More often than not, they are identified by their particular character-that is for demons they are called "unclean, "wicked", and so forth. Likewise the Holy Spirit is identified by His character which is "Holiness."

This is absolutely correct. Didn't Jesus say that He Himself made the Fathers name known? But He never mentioned Jehovah by name. It was Gods character He made known.



*** it-2 p. 464 Name *** Insight volume 2

NAME

A word or phrase that constitutes a distinctive designation of a person, place, animal, plant, or other object. “Name” can mean a person’s reputation or the person himself.

 

[JayJayDee]

That is very noble and all but the name Jehovah doesn't appear in any legitimate Greek of Hebrew manuscripts. The name Jehovah was made by superstitious Jews who feared taking Gods name in vain, so the superstitious Jewish scribes joined the consonants YHWY with the vowels do Adonai. The result was Yahowah, or Jehovah.

Do you think, seeing as how it was God who confused man's language at Babel, that YHWH has difficulty recognising his name in any language? Is it better to use his name reverently in your language, even though it may not be the correct pronunciation in Hebrew? It is, after all, the name recognised not just by men, but by God himself. The writers of the OT used God's name freely and often...almost 7,000 times in the Hebrew Scriptures. Men took that name out of the Bible and replaced it with a title. Did they have God's permission to do that?

What human author would permit the publishers of his work to substitute his name with the title "Author" or "Writer"?

If Jesus taught us to pray...."hallowed be thy name"....do you think he was talking about God's title or his personal name? This name is the one God revealed by Moses as his "memorial" name...YHWH is the name he would be known by "forever". (Ex 3:15) His name never changes...whereas Jesus is given many names in his many roles and the holy spirit isn't given one at all.