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Watchtower Governing Body: Are They The Exclusive Channel For God??

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
I know JW's like to use this verse in arguing Jesus wasn't resurrected with His own body, but that He was resurrected a Spirit. Is this what Jesus said to the apostles?

1Co 15:50 (ESVST) 50 I tell you this, brothers: "FLESH AND BLOOD"cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

What did Jesus say?

Luk 24:38-39 (ESVST) , " Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39 See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have."

Sounds like Jesus had the same body He had before He died, doesn't it? If He was a Spirit or took the form of some other flesh, He couldn't have said "it is I Myself" could He? If He could say, "see my hands and feet, it's me" He must of had the same exact body or He would have been lying, correct? So His body could not have been destroyed as the JW's believe.

And it is correct, flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. But what did Jesus say? "For a Spirit does not have "FLESH AND BONE" as you see me have." Blood is the life of mortal humans, not a resurrected Spirit body. Not only did Jesus spill His blood at Calvary, but a Spirit body does not need blood to live.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
What they teach is the the kingdom was established by the enthronement of Jesus Christ in 1914, which is a lie of Satan.

Oh, of course. Why would Satan want anyone believing we entered the 'last days' in 1914. That might cause people to actually do something about their faith seeing the day is drawing near.

Your funny.
:D
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Was trying to find common ground and establish a path to truce (sigh). Since they believe no one but them has the truth, they cannot and will not see past their own teachings. Especially those that have been established for a while. I lost count how many times I've silenced JW's with a barrage of scriptures and simple logic, especially when it comes to aspects of the kingdom (Right, Pegg? ;)).

we just dont like throwing our pearls before piggypoos :D
 

JFish123

Active Member
we just dont like throwing our pearls before piggypoos :D
We could say the same about the JW "piggy poos" who can't see past the Watchtowers blinders. Sword cuts both ways I believe. At least we try to have dialogue and yet you and others won't or can't debate our arguements. I myself laid out many from scripture that you yourself never answered. I'm sorry but truth hurts.
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
We could say the same about the JW "piggy poos" who can't see past the Watchtowers blinders. Sword cuts both ways I believe. At least we try to have dialogue and yet you and others won't or can't debate our arguements. I myself laid out many from scripture that you yourself never answered. I'm sorry but truth hurts.

I think Pegg has blocked me, unless she just can't refute what I have laid before her. They can't deny the truth we've put out there, so they have to say they won't cast their pearls. It's truly sad they are so blind.
 

Mountain_Climber

Active Member
I know JW's like to use this verse in arguing Jesus wasn't resurrected with His own body, but that He was resurrected a Spirit. Is this what Jesus said to the apostles?

1Co 15:50 (ESVST) 50 I tell you this, brothers: "FLESH AND BLOOD"cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

What did Jesus say?

Luk 24:38-39 (ESVST) , " Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39 See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have."

Sounds like Jesus had the same body He had before He died, doesn't it? If He was a Spirit or took the form of some other flesh, He couldn't have said "it is I Myself" could He? If He could say, "see my hands and feet, it's me" He must of had the same exact body or He would have been lying, correct? So His body could not have been destroyed as the JW's believe.

And it is correct, flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. But what did Jesus say? "For a Spirit does not have "FLESH AND BONE" as you see me have." Blood is the life of mortal humans, not a resurrected Spirit body. Not only did Jesus spill His blood at Calvary, but a Spirit body does not need blood to live.
That is what happens when a person creates ideas all designed around a few verses isolated away from the rest of the scriptures.

But it is obviously what you desire to believe.

Well you have a couple of things right and a lot wrong. But you will never know it because the Bible is your Burger King. :)
 

james2ko

Well-Known Member
we just dont like throwing our pearls before piggypoos :D

If that's the case, you have been breaking Mat 7:6 for some 168 pages now. Perhaps it's time to stop proving us right about your organization being modern day "Christian" Pharisees and practice what you preach. :)
 

katiemygirl

CHRISTIAN
="Pegg, post: 4349598, member: 23994"]The occasion of Pentecost happened in the year 33CE. It was 50 days after the death of Jesus, and 10 days after his ascension to heaven.

Yet strangely enough, the Apostles were still speaking about the coming of the kingdom long after that event.
The strongest evidence that the kingdom had not arrived back at pentecost 33 CE is the fact that in around 96CE, the Apostle John was given the vision of Revelation. In that vision, he saw what was coming in the future. He saw:
Rev 12:1 Then a great sign was seen in heaven: A woman+ was arrayed* with the sun, and the moon was beneath her feet, and on her head was a crown of 12 stars,2 and she was pregnant. And she was crying out in her pains and in her agony to give birth....5 And she gave birth to a son,+ a male, who is to shepherd all the nations with an iron rod.+ And her child was snatched* away to God and to his throne.

This is a prophecy about Christ taking the throne of the Kingdom to begin his rulership over mankind. That did not happen on Pentecost 33CE. And it certainly did not happen at the end of the first century when John wrote the prophecy.




Im afraid your 'gospel' that the Kingdom was established in 33CE is quite false.

The apostles were still preaching the coming of the kingdom long after 33 CE.
Peter says they were still 'waiting' for the promises
2Peter 3:13 But there are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise,+ and in these righteousness is to dwell. 14 Therefore, beloved ones, since you are awaiting these things, do your utmost to be found finally by him spotless and unblemished and in peace.

And Paul spoke of the coming of the day of Jehovah it is 'coming'
1 Thess 5:2
For you yourselves know very well that Jehovah’s* day+ is coming exactly as a thief in the night

So you think the kingdom arrived back in 33CE, but the Apostles were still speaking of it as something for the future. That sounds like a different gospel to the Apostles dont you think?
You did not address each point I made about the kingdom. You did not refute the verses I gave you. I put a lot of time into that post, at least two hours. I numbered each post for your benefit and asked you to look at the Scriptures I posted. I asked you to address each point by either agreeing or refuting.

It is obvious you only read what you choose, and even then you don't read. It is clear that you are only interested in your side of the debate.

If and when your ready to address my post point by point, I'll be happy to have a debate with you about the kingdom. Till then, I'll move on.
 
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katiemygirl

CHRISTIAN
The JW's preach a different and false gospel. Those who preach another gospel are accursed.

Let the honest-hearted person compare the kind of preaching of the gospel done by the religious systems of Christendom during all the centuries with that done by Jehovah'sWitnesses since the end of World War I in 1918. They are not one and the same kind.That of Jehovah's Witnesses isreally"gospel" or "good news," as of God's heavenly kingdom that was established by the enthronement of his Son Jesus Christ at the end of the Gentile Times in 1914."(Watchtower, May 1, 1981,p. 17)

This is not the good news of the Kingdom, and does not reflect the true gospel message.

The tragedy is that they have been told they do not need to be born-again by the Holy Spirit. :(
 
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katiemygirl

CHRISTIAN
I think Pegg has blocked me, unless she just can't refute what I have laid before her. They can't deny the truth we've put out there, so they have to say they won't cast their pearls. It's truly sad they are so blind.
They hear/see only what they choose to hear/see. Their hearts have been hardened. Sometimes it's best to move on.
 

katiemygirl

CHRISTIAN
THE REAL GOOD NEWS OF JESUS CHRIST-

PETER PREACHED THE GOOD NEWS

Acts 2
22 “Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. 23 This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross. 24 But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him.

36“Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.”

THE RESPONSE OF THE PEOPLE TO THE GOOD NEWS

37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?

PETER'S ANSWER TO THE PEOPLE

38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

PETER WARNS AND PLEADS WITH THE PEOPLE

40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.”

THE RESULT OF THE GOOD NEWS BEING PREACHED

41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

47 praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.


THE JW'S FALSE GOSPEL

"Let the honest-hearted person compare the kind of preaching of the gospel of the Kingdom done by the religious systems of Christendom during all the centuries with that done by Jehovah's Witnesses since the end of World War I in 1918. They are not one and the same kind. That of Jehovah's Witnesses is really "gospel," or "good news," as of God's heavenly kingdom that was established by the enthronement of his Son Jesus Christ at the end of the Gentile Times in 1914."

WHICH GOSPEL DO YOU PREACH? PETER'S OR THE JW'S?
 
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djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
That is what happens when a person creates ideas all designed around a few verses isolated away from the rest of the scriptures.

But it is obviously what you desire to believe.

Well you have a couple of things right and a lot wrong. But you will never know it because the Bible is your Burger King. :)

You don't like Burger King? Please enlighten me to the "a lot wrong" I have. You say you have been "trained" well, but as the JW's Bible translators, you elect to keep your trainer a secret. If you are the only one who has the actual truth, isn't it your responsibility to spread that truth? You shouldn't be on here, you should be as Jesus was, moving from town to town and city to city, preaching and teaching.
 
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djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
Mat 18:2-4 (ESVST) 2 And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them 3 and said, " Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

I ask that "EVERY" member of this thread humble themselves as a little child, and read the following prayer, (it's not mine, I'm quoting it) and see if you could, with a sincere and honest heart, pray it tonight. It is rather long so I will split it up.


Dear Jehovah, let Your Name be sanctified.

Thank you that it was not the governing body of Jehovah’s Witnesses who claimed that You appointed a slave, to provide food at the proper time. But, instead it was your Son Jesus, Who indicated in His own words that He would be appointing the slave, in the future.

(w10 12/15 p. 10 par. 14 Be Zealous for True Worship) And before leaving the earthly scene, Jesus indicated that he would appoint “the faithful and discreet slave” to provide spiritual food for his people.

I thank you, that You have shown it to me, very clearly, when I read the verses for myself at Matthew 24:45-47

Mat 24:45 (ESVST) 45 "Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom his master has set over his household, to give them their food at the proper time?

I did not see Jesus asking a question. I read Him making a promise to appoint the slave in verse 45. Thank You Jehovah, thank You that You have provided a slave that has repeatedly proven to be faithful in providing excellent spiritual food.

(Watchtower January 15, 1892 page 23) The date of the close of that “battle” is definitely marked in scripture as October 1914. It is already in progress, it’s beginning dating from October 1874.

Thank you for the fact that our organization is the only one on earth that is directed by Holy Spirit.

(w73 7/1 p. 402 par. 4 Praise Jehovah with His People) Consider, too, the fact that Jehovah’s organization alone, in all the earth, is directed by God’s holy spirit or active force.

That’s why we were the only ones who knew that the second presence of Your Son took place in 1874.

(w74 8/15 p. 507 No Spiritual “Energy Crisis” for Discreet Ones) “Zion’s Watch Tower and Herald of Christ’s Presence.” It was heralding Christ’s presence as having begun in 1874.

We were the only ones who knew when that second presence was changed to 1914.

(w70 6/1 p. 338 par. 22 Remain “Healthy in Faith”)Since the establishment of God’s heavenly kingdom in 1914 C.E. Jesus Christ’s second presence has been a reality!

We were the only ones who knew that Abraham and others would have been resurrected in 1925.

(Millions Now Living Will Never Die pages 89 & 90) Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old.

Because we were the only ones directed by the Holy Spirit, we were the only ones who knew that those who were alive, and old enough to understand the events of 1914 would not die before this wicked world’s end.

(w68 5/1 p. 272 par. 6 Making Wise Use of the Remaining Time) Some of the generation that discerned the beginning of the time of the end in 1914 will still be alive on earth to witness the end of this present wicked system of things at the battle of Armageddon

(Awake October 8, 1968 page 13) Jesus was obviously speaking about those who were old enough to witness with understanding, what took place when the ‘last days’ began


We were also the only ones who understood the changes in meaning of the word “generation”, because You so graciously gave us the new meanings over the years.

(w00 1/1 p. 10 par. 18 Serving With the Watchman) As the years pass, Jehovah continues to give us further clarification of truth, including a clearer understanding of his prophetic word.

I also thank You, dear Jehovah, for the fact that only Jehovah’s Witnesses understand the overlapping generation that You so graciously explained, so very clearly to us. And that those of us who do not understand it, can simply wait on You. I thank You Jehovah, for bringing me into this marvelous truth.

(w10 4/15 p. 10 par. 14 Holy Spirit’s Role in the Outworking of Jehovah’s Purpose) He evidently meant that the lives of the anointed who were on hand when the sign began to become evident in 1914 would overlap with the lives of other anointed ones who would see the start of the great tribulation.

Only Jehovah’s Witnesses knew that the year 1975 marked 6,000 years of man’s existence, and that the Sabbath like millennium would start in that year.

(w68 8/15 p. 501 par. 36 Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975?) Even if one cannot see beyond 1975, is this any reason to be less active? The apostles could not see even this far; they knew nothing about 1975. All they could see was a short time ahead in which to finish the work assigned to them.
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
Only Jehovah’s Witnesses were wise enough to sell their homes and property in preparation of that wonderful event.

(km 5/74 p. 3 How Are You Using Your Life?) Reports are heard of brothers selling their homes and property and planning to finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service. Certainly this is a fine way to spend the short time remaining before the wicked world’s end.


I praise Your name, Jehovah, because only Jehovah’s Witnesses recognized back then, that there was not enough time for students to pursue a career, because the wicked world would end before they could graduate.

(Awake May 22, 1969 page 15) All the evidence in fulfillment of Bible prophecy indicates that this corrupt system is due to end in a few years. Therefore, as a young person, you will never fulfill any career that this system offers.

Today, we understand that those truths, not false teachings, got brighter as you have refined them.

(w00 9/1 Show a Waiting Attitude!) In what way will a waiting attitude help our view of a progressively refined understanding of the Bible?

Thank You again, for the faithfulness of the slave in providing excellent spiritual food,

(w08 11/15 p. 14 par. 10 Help Them Return Without Delay!) It may be helpful to remind an inactive one that “the faithful and discreet slave” is dispensing excellent spiritual food.

when it taught us that Jesus appointed the slave over all His belongings in 1919;

(w08 1/15 p. 24 par. 1 Counted Worthy to Be Guided to Fountains of Waters of Life) When Christ inspected the “slave” in 1918, he found those anointed ones on earth to be faithful in providing spiritual “food at the proper time.” Hence, Jesus, the Master, was pleased thereafter to appoint them “over all his belongings.”

that the great tribulation started in 1914

(w13 7/15 p. 3 par. 3 “Tell Us, When Will These Things Be?”)For a number of years, we thought [and taught] that the great tribulation began in 1914 with World War I. [addition mine]

And that the judgment of the sheep and goats also began in 1914,

(w13 7/15 p. 6 par. 10 “Tell Us, When Will These Things Be?”) Previously, we thought [and taught] that the judging of people as sheep or goats would take place during the entire period of the last days from 1914 onward. [addition mine]

the year when the slave taught us that the world would end.

(Zion’s Watchtower January 15, 1892 page 23) The battle of the great day of God Almighty… The date of the close of that battle is definitely marked in Scripture as October 1914

Great Jehovah, we thank you that only Jehovah’s Witnesses can understand that, even though the slave was appointed in 1919, he was already providing spiritual food as the faithful and wise servant, at the proper time, before that year.

(jv chap. 28 p. 626 Testing and Sifting From Within) …it became evident that the “faithful and wise servant” (KJ), or “faithful and discreet slave” (NW), had not passed off the scene when Brother Russell died.

I thank you for bringing me into the truth, where only Jehovah’s Witnesses know that Jesus’ second presence began in 1914, and only Jehovah’s Witnesses know what the word “presence” really means.

(w70 3/15 p. 174 par. 8 Keep the Right View of Kingdom Preaching) The coming to pass of all these things in such unprecedented doses proves beyond a doubt that we are now living during Christ’s second presence and the “last days” of this system of things.
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
I also thank You that I can clearly explain it to anyone. I thank You Jehovah that I can speak with You with a clear conscience, and that, unlike the people of Christendom who get tossed about by every wind of doctrine, following the whims of men,

Eph 4:13-14 (ESVST) , 14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.

it was You, Whom we have been following, when we kept changing our beliefs over the last century,

(w08 1/15 p. 26 par. 6 Counted Worthy to Be Guided to Fountains of Waters of Life) … Christians with an earthly hope today walk behind the anointed slave class and its Governing Body, following their leadership.

because it was You, not the governing body, Who gave us all the changes or the refinements. And Jehovah, I praise Your name for the fact that the truths we teach today, could change tomorrow because as Your word clearly teaches us, the light of truth keeps getting brighter.

Pro 4:18 (ESVST) 18 But the path of the righteous is like the light of dawn, which shines brighter and brighter until full day.

Please give me boldness to declare these marvelous truths in my witnessing activities,

(w08 1/15 p. 26 par. 8 Counted Worthy to Be Guided to Fountains of Waters of Life) The other sheep companions of the congregation of anointed Christians prove their faith in various ways. First, they support the anointed in proclaiming the good news of God’s Kingdom.

so I may help new persons to join Your organization and learn to trust the faithful and discreet slave, completely,

(w09 2/15 p. 27 par. 12 They “Keep Following the Lamb”) The slave thus deserves our complete trust.

not because THEY told us to trust them, but because You and Your Son trust the slave,

(w09 2/15 p. 24 par. 3 They “Keep Following the Lamb”) Let us examine the evidence that both Jehovah God and Jesus Christ have complete confidence in the faithful and discreet slave.

and because Jesus has taught us to trust the slave.

(w04 9/1 p. 17 par. 18 Beware of “the Voice of Strangers”) What does Jesus, the Fine Shepherd, tell us to do? He teaches us to… trust “the faithful and discreet slave.”

And finally Jehovah, I thank You that when I do the witnessing work, I am giving a witness of what You have done in my life instead of what the very faithful slave has instructed me to say.

(w08 1/15 p. 26 par. 8 Counted Worthy to Be Guided to Fountains of Waters of Life) Second, they willingly submit themselves to the direction provided by the Governing Body.

In Jehovah's name, I pray, amen.

(ws chap. 1 p. 10 par. 16 The Desire for Peace and Security Worldwide) Likewise, the Greater Moses, Jesus Christ, is not the Mediator between Jehovah God and all mankind.

Could "ANYONE" pray this prayer with a sincere heart?
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
If that's the case, you have been breaking Mat 7:6 for some 168 pages now. Perhaps it's time to stop proving us right about your organization being modern day "Christian" Pharisees and practice what you preach. :)

We follow the example of the Apostles... while they didn't get into fights, they did attempt to help people learn the truth. Some people only want to fight and insult...thats when i press the ignore button.

2 Cor 10:4 For the weapons of our warfare are not fleshly,+ but powerful by God+ for overturning strongly entrenched things.5 For we are overturning reasonings and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God,+ and we are bringing every thought into captivity to make it obedient to the Christ;
 

james2ko

Well-Known Member
We follow the example of the Apostles... while they didn't get into fights, they did attempt to help people learn the truth. Some people only want to fight and insult...thats when i press the ignore button.

2 Cor 10:4 For the weapons of our warfare are not fleshly,+ but powerful by God+ for overturning strongly entrenched things.5 For we are overturning reasonings and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God,+ and we are bringing every thought into captivity to make it obedient to the Christ;

I exposed your groups hypocrisy just as Jesus did to the Pharisees. So I'm following His example by attempting to help a group who believes they are just fine learn "a" truth about themselves.

 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
I exposed your groups hypocrisy just as Jesus did to the Pharisees. So I'm following His example by attempting to help a group who believes they are just fine learn "a" truth about themselves.

what is the hypocrisy you see?
 

james2ko

Well-Known Member
what is the hypocrisy you see?

After explaining how I've silenced your past arguments on the kingdom of God, you tell me you did so because you do not cast pearls before swine. Pearls are symbolic for nuggets of truth. You've been casting your self-imposed truth to unreceptive eyes (whom you would deem pigs) throughout the whole thread. Therefore you are not practicing what you preach, hence rendering you a hypocrite--just like the Pharisees.
 
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