I think the sad thing is that most people who become JWs are probably not conceited, but they are taught to be that way.
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Watchtower Governing Body: Are They The Exclusive Channel For God??
- Thread starter katiemygirl
- Start date
Shak34
Active Member
That isn't god dealing with people it is the three elders deciding the fate of them. God plays no role in the the decisions of the judicial committee. Living through my mothers disfellowshipping and reinstatement process, I don't feel that God has anything to do with it. And with my own personal dealing the elders, I see men not God.
This is my assessment of the decision making of Jehovah's Witnesses too. The image that the organization projects is 'a little bit of imperfection in perfection'. But I discovered it was the other way around and it was extremely difficult for awhile to live through that realization.
e.r.m.
Church of Christ
Ok then. I think your basic premise is correct. The Bible does actually say don't associate with those who claim to be brothers and are engaged in these sins. I think the JWs have "added" to that, but there is a point where we need not to associate. The Bible says it plainly. But in the assembly, not family.
When a person becomes convinced that the men of the governing body were not really appointed by Jesus and that the elders are not really appointed by The Holy Spirit he must become unconvinced or lie to himself and to all other JWs to be able to be welcomed back into the fold. Who would do that? And if someone would do that and be welcome back that is proof positive that The Holy Spirit is not deciding the course of the Jehovah's Witnesses. Lying is worse than disagreeing. I am sure.
e.r.m.
Church of Christ
The judicial committee is not scriptural. A man made invention will act as man made.
Some Bible Verses that say
“Jesus is God”
Some people claim to believe that Jesus is not God. If that is you, I would like to encourage you to consider some of these Bible verses:
Matthew 1:23 - “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”
Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Isaiah 43:10,11 - “You are My witnesses,” says the Lord, “And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me. I, even I, am the Lord, and besides Me there is no Savior.”
Jesus says we are HIS Witnesses (Acts1:8)
Revelation 1:17-18; Revelation 2:8 - (Jesus is the First and the Last)
Isaiah 44:6 - (God is the Redeemer)
2 Peter 1:1 (Jesus is the Redeemer) - “To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ”
Isaiah 44:24 - (God created the world by His self alone)
John 1:3; Colossians 1:16 - (Jesus made all things)
John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God... 1:14 - And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,
John 5:17,18 - “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.” Therefore the Jews sought to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.
John 5:23 - that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
John 8:24 - “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I AM [He], you will die in your sins.”
John 8:58 - Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
John 10:30-33 - Jesus answered them, “I and My Father are one.” Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?” The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”
John 14:6-7 - Jesus said to him, “I AM the way, the truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.”
John 14:9-11 - Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?”
John 20:28 - And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
Acts 4:12 - “Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
Acts 20:28 - (God purchased us with His own blood)
Revelation 1:5-6; Revelation 5:8-9 - (Jesus' blood purchased us)
Philippians 2:5-7 - Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bond-servant, and coming in the likeness of men.
Colossians 2:9 - For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily
1 Timothy 3:16 - And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.
Titus 2:13 - looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ
Hebrews 1:8-9 - But to the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
2 John 1:7 - For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
Revelation 1:8 - “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”
Revelation 22:13 - “I AM the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”... 22:16 - “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches.”
1 Timothy 6:14-16 - “our Lord Jesus Christ's appearing, which He will manifest in His own time, He who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen.”
Hebrews 2:17-18 - “Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.”
Hebrews 4:15-16 - “For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.”
1 Peter 2:24 - “who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we having died to sins, might live for righteousness - by whose stripes you were healed.”
“Jesus is God”
Some people claim to believe that Jesus is not God. If that is you, I would like to encourage you to consider some of these Bible verses:
Matthew 1:23 - “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”
Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Isaiah 43:10,11 - “You are My witnesses,” says the Lord, “And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me. I, even I, am the Lord, and besides Me there is no Savior.”
Jesus says we are HIS Witnesses (Acts1:8)
Revelation 1:17-18; Revelation 2:8 - (Jesus is the First and the Last)
Isaiah 44:6 - (God is the Redeemer)
2 Peter 1:1 (Jesus is the Redeemer) - “To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ”
Isaiah 44:24 - (God created the world by His self alone)
John 1:3; Colossians 1:16 - (Jesus made all things)
John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God... 1:14 - And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,
John 5:17,18 - “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.” Therefore the Jews sought to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.
John 5:23 - that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
John 8:24 - “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I AM [He], you will die in your sins.”
John 8:58 - Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
John 10:30-33 - Jesus answered them, “I and My Father are one.” Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?” The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”
John 14:6-7 - Jesus said to him, “I AM the way, the truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.”
John 14:9-11 - Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?”
John 20:28 - And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
Acts 4:12 - “Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
Acts 20:28 - (God purchased us with His own blood)
Revelation 1:5-6; Revelation 5:8-9 - (Jesus' blood purchased us)
Philippians 2:5-7 - Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bond-servant, and coming in the likeness of men.
Colossians 2:9 - For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily
1 Timothy 3:16 - And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.
Titus 2:13 - looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ
Hebrews 1:8-9 - But to the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
2 John 1:7 - For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
Revelation 1:8 - “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”
Revelation 22:13 - “I AM the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”... 22:16 - “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches.”
1 Timothy 6:14-16 - “our Lord Jesus Christ's appearing, which He will manifest in His own time, He who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen.”
Hebrews 2:17-18 - “Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.”
Hebrews 4:15-16 - “For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.”
1 Peter 2:24 - “who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we having died to sins, might live for righteousness - by whose stripes you were healed.”
They believe it is scriptural. Acts of the Apostles 15:6 I do not agree but that is what they fashion themselves after. They fashion themselves after their understanding of God's Word. 2 Peter 3:3
e.r.m.
Church of Christ
Really? Did the scriptures talk of a judicial committee or of a meeting?
Acts 15:6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question.
It wasn't an ongoing committee it was once. It wasn't about individuals it was about the whole movement. It was made up of Apostles and elders. Are these judicial committees made up of Apostles and elders? The JWs are not practicing Acts 15:6, they have adapted it and turned it into something altogether different.
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Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
I would disagree with you on that point.
The scriptures do not record any further communication between Jehovah and Adam. He was exiled.
That is what spiritual death implies... God, our spirituak Father and source of our spiritual light, is no longer with us.
ISAIAH 1:15
And when you spread out your palms,
I hide my eyes from you.
Although you offer many prayers,
I am not listening;
And when you spread out your palms,
I hide my eyes from you.
Although you offer many prayers,
I am not listening;
averageJOE
zombie
An example of this "offensive lifestyle" is simply not believing the governing body is anointed by Jehovah. Not believing in such is enough be labeled "wicked", and said to have "become demonized" with "poisonous thinking", thus causing your family to turn their backs on you.
[ QUOTE="Pegg, post: 4360747, member: 23994"]I would disagree with you on that point.
The scriptures do not record any further communication between Jehovah and Adam. He was exiled.
That is what spiritual death implies... God, our spirituak Father and source of our spiritual light, is no longer with us.
The scriptures do not record any further communication between Jehovah and Adam. He was exiled.
That is what spiritual death implies... God, our spirituak Father and source of our spiritual light, is no longer with us.
ISAIAH 1:15
And when you spread out your palms,
I hide my eyes from you.
Although you offer many prayers,
I am not listening;
[/QUOTE]o if the Governing Body says you can't talk to family then it's cool. After all, they are the only directed organization so if they tell you to not talk to family, then you don't right? That's what I'm getting from these JW posts. Hate to be an " apostate" in your families just because I believe Christ is God.And when you spread out your palms,
I hide my eyes from you.
Although you offer many prayers,
I am not listening;
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
To me its evidence that it is not the elders who decide when a person is restored to Jehovahs favor but Jehovah himself who decides.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
Yes thats true. The watchtower has stated the same thing regarding disfellowshipped family members... family business still remains and family ties still remain. But socialising and family business are not one and the same...they are different things and a christian who is loyal to Jehovah will rightly keep them in their proper place. .
Shak34
Active Member
So that would mean that it was Jehovah that told me I couldn't get baptized because I didn't have enough service time, not the elders. That doesn't sound like the God of the bible to me.
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Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
If you got that far as to address baptism questions with the elders and they told you that you have not spent enough time in the ministry to be baptised, what did you do about it?
Shak34
Active Member
I did what most 13 year old kids would do who was taught that the elders were appointed by the Holy Spirit. I thought at that time that I wasn't good enough for God and he didn't want me. They never told me that I could try again, so at that age I was under the impression that I was unbaptizable. Obviously, the older I got I realized that they were only power hungry men and that God wasn't involved at all. Elders are just men that have no backing from God.