POST ONE OF TWO
Hi @Dogknox20
1) REGARDING ATTEMPTS TO CREATE ANIMOSITY AND PREJUDICE AGAINST ANOTHER RELIGION BY OFFERING FALSE INFORMATION
Dogknox20 said : “I reply: What does the Watch Tower call the Catholic Church?! I am fairly certain your are taught the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon and the Pope is Anti-Christ! Don't point your finger at me with your OPINIONS!
I don't know what the Watch Tower calls the Catholic Church and perhaps from even before the reformation millions may have called the Catholic Church “The Whore of Babylon”. I do not know.
However, If you are wanting revenge for these people calling your church a bad name, lying about them is not the way to do it.
Whether you are caught lying in post #1187 regarding transfusion and deaths, or whether you are caught in another lie in post #1289, it both decreases your own credibility and reflects upon other Christians who do not engage in this behavior.
Credibility is the issue and if people insult your church, I still do not see how it gives you justification to lie about another church.
2) COMPARING THE MORALITY OF FAITH BASED POLICY OF REFUSING BLOOD VERSUS THE MORALITY OF POLICIES CONDONING SLAVERY, THIEVERY, OPPRESSION, TAKING CHILDREN FROM THEIR PARENTS, FORCING RELIGIOUS PRACTICE UNDER THREAT OF EXILE OR DEATH
Clear said : “For examples, simply look at some of the church councils of your organization in it’s attempt to gain power and money and to oppress not only it’s members, but others as well
Dogknox20 replied : “I reply: OPINION! All you have is your opinion!”
Actually there is a combination of Facts and opinion based on historical fact.
For examples :
IT IS FACT : In Paris, a.d. 557 your church created a policy as follows :
Canon 1 No one may hold that church property changes political denominations : no one can claim that church property ever passes under another ruler “since the dominion of God knows no geographical bounderies.” No one may claim that he holds as a gift from the king property that once belonged to the church. All property given by King Chlodwig of blessed memory and handed down as an inheritance must now be given back to the church.
IT IS MY OPINION : taking property from individuals who have owned it legally by your organization is morally wrong and it is NOT a morally superior position than to take a stand not to receive blood because of a specific faith.
IT IS FACT : In Toledo, a.d. 589 your church created a policy as follows :
Canon 20 Many bishops burden their clerics with intolerable compulsory services and contributions. Clerics thus cruelly oppressed may complain to the metropolitan.
IT IS MY OPINION : burdening clerics with “compulsory services” (a euphemism for slavery?) and taking their money is morally wrong and it is NOT a morally superior position than to take a stand not to receive blood because of a specific faith.
IT IS FACT : In Nabonne, a.d. 589 your church created a policy as follows :
Canon 13 Subdeacons must hold curtains and doors open for superior clergy. If they refuse to do so they must pay a fine; lower clergy who refuse must be beaten.
IT IS MY OPINION : oppression and physical beatings of lower clergy by your organization is morally wrong and it is NOT a morally superior position than to take a stand not to receive blood because of a specific faith.
IT IS FACT : In Reims, a.d. 624-625 your church created a policy as follows :
Canon 13 No one, not even a bishop, may ever sell the property or slaves of the church.(such a rule would mean that the church can only continue to gain property and financial value but it can never decrease it’s holdings.)
IT IS MY OPINION : prohibition from release of slaves or the contribution of property to others by your organization is morally wrong and it is NOT a morally superior position than to take a stand not to receive blood because of a specific faith.
IT IS FACT : In Toledo, a.d. 633 your church created a policy as follows :
Canon 67 Bishops may not free slaves of the church unless they reimburse the church out of their private fortunes, and the bishop’s successors can reclaim any thus freed.
Canon 68 A bishop who frees a slave of the church without reserving the patrocinium [financial holdings] for the church must give the church two slaves in his place. If the person freed makes any complaint about the way he was treated while he was a slave, he must again become a church slave
IT IS MY OPINION : prohibition from release of church slaves or the contribution of property to others by your organization is morally wrong and it is NOT a morally superior position than to take a stand not to receive blood because of a specific faith.
IT IS FACT : In Toledo a.d. 638 your church created a policy as follows :
Canon 3 Thank God for the edict of King Chintila banishing all Jews from Spain, with the order that “only Catholics may live in the land…Resolved that any future king before mounting the throne should swear an oath not to tolerate the Jewish Unglauben [unbelief]…If he breaks this oath, let him be anathema and maranatha [excommunicated] before God and food for the eternal fire.”
IT IS MY OPINION : the banishment of Jews from their lifelong homes and the loss of their properties (much of which would fall under the influence of your church) is morally wrong and it is NOT a morally superior position than to take a stand not to receive blood because of a specific faith.
IT IS FACT : In Toledo a.d. 656 your church created a policy as follows :
Canon 6 Children over ten years of age may dedicate themselves to the religious life without consenting their parents. When smaller children are tonsured or given the religious garment, unless their parents lodge immediate protest, they are bound to the religious discipline for life.
IT IS MY OPINION : allowing a mere child to agree to life-long servitude and slavery is morally wrong and it is NOT a morally superior position than to take a stand not to receive blood because of a specific faith.
IT IS FACT : In Emerita a.d. 666 your church created a policy as follows :
Canon 15 It often happens that priests who fall sick blame church slaves for their condition and torture them out of revenge. This must cease.
Canon 16 Bishops must stop taking more than their third. They must not take from the church’s third for their private use.
IT IS MY OPINION : stealing from the offerings of your followers for private use by your organization is morally wrong and it is NOT a morally superior position than to take a stand not to receive blood because of a specific faith.
IT IS FACT : Toledo a.d. 694 your church created a policy as follows :
Canon 8 Jews must be denied all religious practice. Their children must be taken from them at seven years and must marry Christians.
IT IS MY OPINION : taking children away from their mothers and fathers and forcing them into marriage to a person of your organization is morally wrong and it is NOT a morally superior position than to take a stand not to receive blood because of a specific faith.
IT IS FACT : In Boniface a.d. 745 your church created a policy as follows :
Statute 13 Pasquil [jokes about the authorities] must be severely punished, even with exile.
IT IS MY OPINION : the severe punishment failing to respect an authority of your organization with exile and it’s associated loss of association with family and loss of property is morally wrong and it is NOT a morally superior position than to take a stand not to receive blood because of a specific faith.
IT IS FACT : In Paderborn a.d. 785 your church created a policy as follows :
Canon 21 anyone engaging in pagan rites must pay a heavy fine. If he cannot pay, no matter what his station, he becomes a slave of the church until he has paid up.
IT IS MY OPINION : making a slave out of a person who is simply engaging in a religious practice different from yours is morally wrong and it is NOT a morally superior position than to take a stand not to receive blood because of a specific faith.
Canon 23 Soothsayers and fortune-tellers shall be given to churches and priests as slaves.
IT IS MY OPINION : making a slave out of a person who is simply engaging in a religious practice different from yours is morally wrong and it is NOT a morally superior position than to take a stand not to receive blood because of a specific faith.
IT IS FACT : At the Lateran IV, a.d. 1215 your church created a policy as follows :
Canon 3 All condemned heretics must be turned over to the secular authorities for punishment…Their property must be confiscated by the church. Those who have not been able to clear themselves of charges of heresy are excommunicated and must be avoided by all. If they remain a year under the ban, they must be condemned as heretics. All civic officers must take a public oath to defend the faith and expel from their territories all heretics. Whoever, when ordered to do so by the church, does not purify his district or domain of heretics will be put under the ban. If he does not give satisfaction within a year, he must be reported to the pope, who will absolve his vassals from all duty to him and declare his lands open to legitimate conquest by Catholics : those who participate in the attack will receive the same privileges as regular crusaders. …. Anyone who preaches without the authorization of a bishop is excommunicated…A bishop must inspect his diocese. His officers are authorized to have all inhabitants swear an oath to expose to the bishop all sectarians that can be discovered…anyone who refuses to take the oath automatically makes himself a traitor. ….
IT IS MY OPINION : making a slave out of a person and the stealing of their property when they decide they no longer believe in or want to be part of your organisation is morally wrong and it is NOT a morally superior position than to take a stand not to receive blood because of a specific faith.
Another opinion I have is that Neither Jesus, nor Peter, nor the Holy spirit prompted your organization to create such policies. Your schism created different policies than the policies of the church of Jesus Christ.
POST TWO OF TWO FOLLOWS
Hi @Dogknox20
1) REGARDING ATTEMPTS TO CREATE ANIMOSITY AND PREJUDICE AGAINST ANOTHER RELIGION BY OFFERING FALSE INFORMATION
Dogknox20 said : “I reply: What does the Watch Tower call the Catholic Church?! I am fairly certain your are taught the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon and the Pope is Anti-Christ! Don't point your finger at me with your OPINIONS!
I don't know what the Watch Tower calls the Catholic Church and perhaps from even before the reformation millions may have called the Catholic Church “The Whore of Babylon”. I do not know.
However, If you are wanting revenge for these people calling your church a bad name, lying about them is not the way to do it.
Whether you are caught lying in post #1187 regarding transfusion and deaths, or whether you are caught in another lie in post #1289, it both decreases your own credibility and reflects upon other Christians who do not engage in this behavior.
Credibility is the issue and if people insult your church, I still do not see how it gives you justification to lie about another church.
2) COMPARING THE MORALITY OF FAITH BASED POLICY OF REFUSING BLOOD VERSUS THE MORALITY OF POLICIES CONDONING SLAVERY, THIEVERY, OPPRESSION, TAKING CHILDREN FROM THEIR PARENTS, FORCING RELIGIOUS PRACTICE UNDER THREAT OF EXILE OR DEATH
Clear said : “For examples, simply look at some of the church councils of your organization in it’s attempt to gain power and money and to oppress not only it’s members, but others as well
Dogknox20 replied : “I reply: OPINION! All you have is your opinion!”
Actually there is a combination of Facts and opinion based on historical fact.
For examples :
IT IS FACT : In Paris, a.d. 557 your church created a policy as follows :
Canon 1 No one may hold that church property changes political denominations : no one can claim that church property ever passes under another ruler “since the dominion of God knows no geographical bounderies.” No one may claim that he holds as a gift from the king property that once belonged to the church. All property given by King Chlodwig of blessed memory and handed down as an inheritance must now be given back to the church.
IT IS MY OPINION : taking property from individuals who have owned it legally by your organization is morally wrong and it is NOT a morally superior position than to take a stand not to receive blood because of a specific faith.
IT IS FACT : In Toledo, a.d. 589 your church created a policy as follows :
Canon 20 Many bishops burden their clerics with intolerable compulsory services and contributions. Clerics thus cruelly oppressed may complain to the metropolitan.
IT IS MY OPINION : burdening clerics with “compulsory services” (a euphemism for slavery?) and taking their money is morally wrong and it is NOT a morally superior position than to take a stand not to receive blood because of a specific faith.
IT IS FACT : In Nabonne, a.d. 589 your church created a policy as follows :
Canon 13 Subdeacons must hold curtains and doors open for superior clergy. If they refuse to do so they must pay a fine; lower clergy who refuse must be beaten.
IT IS MY OPINION : oppression and physical beatings of lower clergy by your organization is morally wrong and it is NOT a morally superior position than to take a stand not to receive blood because of a specific faith.
IT IS FACT : In Reims, a.d. 624-625 your church created a policy as follows :
Canon 13 No one, not even a bishop, may ever sell the property or slaves of the church.(such a rule would mean that the church can only continue to gain property and financial value but it can never decrease it’s holdings.)
IT IS MY OPINION : prohibition from release of slaves or the contribution of property to others by your organization is morally wrong and it is NOT a morally superior position than to take a stand not to receive blood because of a specific faith.
IT IS FACT : In Toledo, a.d. 633 your church created a policy as follows :
Canon 67 Bishops may not free slaves of the church unless they reimburse the church out of their private fortunes, and the bishop’s successors can reclaim any thus freed.
Canon 68 A bishop who frees a slave of the church without reserving the patrocinium [financial holdings] for the church must give the church two slaves in his place. If the person freed makes any complaint about the way he was treated while he was a slave, he must again become a church slave
IT IS MY OPINION : prohibition from release of church slaves or the contribution of property to others by your organization is morally wrong and it is NOT a morally superior position than to take a stand not to receive blood because of a specific faith.
IT IS FACT : In Toledo a.d. 638 your church created a policy as follows :
Canon 3 Thank God for the edict of King Chintila banishing all Jews from Spain, with the order that “only Catholics may live in the land…Resolved that any future king before mounting the throne should swear an oath not to tolerate the Jewish Unglauben [unbelief]…If he breaks this oath, let him be anathema and maranatha [excommunicated] before God and food for the eternal fire.”
IT IS MY OPINION : the banishment of Jews from their lifelong homes and the loss of their properties (much of which would fall under the influence of your church) is morally wrong and it is NOT a morally superior position than to take a stand not to receive blood because of a specific faith.
IT IS FACT : In Toledo a.d. 656 your church created a policy as follows :
Canon 6 Children over ten years of age may dedicate themselves to the religious life without consenting their parents. When smaller children are tonsured or given the religious garment, unless their parents lodge immediate protest, they are bound to the religious discipline for life.
IT IS MY OPINION : allowing a mere child to agree to life-long servitude and slavery is morally wrong and it is NOT a morally superior position than to take a stand not to receive blood because of a specific faith.
IT IS FACT : In Emerita a.d. 666 your church created a policy as follows :
Canon 15 It often happens that priests who fall sick blame church slaves for their condition and torture them out of revenge. This must cease.
Canon 16 Bishops must stop taking more than their third. They must not take from the church’s third for their private use.
IT IS MY OPINION : stealing from the offerings of your followers for private use by your organization is morally wrong and it is NOT a morally superior position than to take a stand not to receive blood because of a specific faith.
IT IS FACT : Toledo a.d. 694 your church created a policy as follows :
Canon 8 Jews must be denied all religious practice. Their children must be taken from them at seven years and must marry Christians.
IT IS MY OPINION : taking children away from their mothers and fathers and forcing them into marriage to a person of your organization is morally wrong and it is NOT a morally superior position than to take a stand not to receive blood because of a specific faith.
IT IS FACT : In Boniface a.d. 745 your church created a policy as follows :
Statute 13 Pasquil [jokes about the authorities] must be severely punished, even with exile.
IT IS MY OPINION : the severe punishment failing to respect an authority of your organization with exile and it’s associated loss of association with family and loss of property is morally wrong and it is NOT a morally superior position than to take a stand not to receive blood because of a specific faith.
IT IS FACT : In Paderborn a.d. 785 your church created a policy as follows :
Canon 21 anyone engaging in pagan rites must pay a heavy fine. If he cannot pay, no matter what his station, he becomes a slave of the church until he has paid up.
IT IS MY OPINION : making a slave out of a person who is simply engaging in a religious practice different from yours is morally wrong and it is NOT a morally superior position than to take a stand not to receive blood because of a specific faith.
Canon 23 Soothsayers and fortune-tellers shall be given to churches and priests as slaves.
IT IS MY OPINION : making a slave out of a person who is simply engaging in a religious practice different from yours is morally wrong and it is NOT a morally superior position than to take a stand not to receive blood because of a specific faith.
IT IS FACT : At the Lateran IV, a.d. 1215 your church created a policy as follows :
Canon 3 All condemned heretics must be turned over to the secular authorities for punishment…Their property must be confiscated by the church. Those who have not been able to clear themselves of charges of heresy are excommunicated and must be avoided by all. If they remain a year under the ban, they must be condemned as heretics. All civic officers must take a public oath to defend the faith and expel from their territories all heretics. Whoever, when ordered to do so by the church, does not purify his district or domain of heretics will be put under the ban. If he does not give satisfaction within a year, he must be reported to the pope, who will absolve his vassals from all duty to him and declare his lands open to legitimate conquest by Catholics : those who participate in the attack will receive the same privileges as regular crusaders. …. Anyone who preaches without the authorization of a bishop is excommunicated…A bishop must inspect his diocese. His officers are authorized to have all inhabitants swear an oath to expose to the bishop all sectarians that can be discovered…anyone who refuses to take the oath automatically makes himself a traitor. ….
IT IS MY OPINION : making a slave out of a person and the stealing of their property when they decide they no longer believe in or want to be part of your organisation is morally wrong and it is NOT a morally superior position than to take a stand not to receive blood because of a specific faith.
Another opinion I have is that Neither Jesus, nor Peter, nor the Holy spirit prompted your organization to create such policies. Your schism created different policies than the policies of the church of Jesus Christ.
POST TWO OF TWO FOLLOWS
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