Water into wine: natural or supernatural?

[Pogo]

Thanks for an honest answer. This is the most helpful reply that I have had since I came to this forum. I have wanted to leave since the day I joined. Your reply gives me something of substance to consider.

I'm not sure why I am not being understood. I don't think it is lack of intelligence because I think what I'm trying to explain is simple to understand. It seemed to be more a lack of interest and unfairly being classed as wrong by assumption. Like being told I am talking about the Bible Code and that it has been proven false showing me a wikipedia page which has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. That wasn't helpful.

I might be speaking nonsense. I am sure crazy people think that they are correct and what they say is simple and coherent. But nobody understands.

But do not take me for someone who was searching for reasons to justify my blind faith. I have no reason to twist and force the Bible to somehow be true to assure myself of heaven and everlasting life. I have a different reason to believe the words are true. If I didnt notice how the words are strangely true then I would have put the Bible on the shelf next to Harry Potter and be agreement with the Atheists.

The sentences of the Bible started out as being nonsense to me, but I kept noticing the same words were being used in other sentences of nonsense so I started writing them down. I noticed certain words were associated with other certain words and formed word groups. I then used a word search to get an overview of every time a certain word gets mentioned in the bible. I noticed there are different layers of words and the sentences of nonsense were in fact weaving the layers together. The word weaving is what makes the words said true. Words have their places along with other words.



Like these three different words:

"And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart". Psalm.



Are connected to these three different words:

"There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory". Corinthians


Which are also connected to these three different words:

"Therefore set I in the lower places behind the wall, and on the higher places, I even set the people after their families with their swords, their spears, and their bows". Nehemiah



I noticed in this word weaving verse that I mentioned earlier it has only two words from each set of three words. Sun and Moon, also Arrows (Bow) and Spear.

Here:



I noticed the verse did not mention one word from each set. It did not mention the Sword and the Star.

By listening to the word weaving speech of the Bible I know the Olive, Oil, Star, and Sword are words of the same position. They are in an alignment. Woven together.

Corn - Olive - Grape
Bread - Oil - Wine
Moon - Star - Sun
Spear - Sword - Bow


I know the sword is as the star, and the sword is as oil:

"The words of his mouth were smoother than butter, but war was in his heart: his words were softer than oil, yet were they drawn swords". Psalm.


So when I heard the Quran was connecting words like the Star and Oil and Olive tree I understood it was positioning the words in the same way as I had heard from the Bible. I could show other examples of the Quran putting its words in the right places.

But I might just be crazy and not making any sense.

You have discovered poetic language. I wouldn't make too much of it lest it lead you down the garden path into the wilderness.

 

[oldbadger]

This thread is about whether such a miracle can occur naturally, or whether it is story invented by a person who has no understanding of how wine are made.

In the gospel of John, John 2 narrated that Jesus attended the wedding at Cana, where they have no wedding feast have no wine. So Jesus made wine, by turning water into wine.

I don't pay too much attention to the miracles in G-John, the Cana wedding does make one thing very clear..... that Jesus, his mother and all dearly loved their wine, they drank out the stock layed on for the wedding in any case. I have always thought that Jesus did love his meat and wine, and maybe the stories that the Baptist heard about him were true?

 

[Banach-Tarski Paradox]

Nature doesn’t defy any natural or physical laws, paarsurrey, but believing in imaginary beings or magic or miracle, do defy them.

1. What specific natural or physical laws are defied by believing in something imaginary?

2. If the existence of said beliefs actually manage to defy the specific laws in your answer to question 1, does the mere breaking of those specific laws imply that there’s something beyond natural or physical laws? If not, why not?

 

[Banach-Tarski Paradox]

Nature doesn’t defy any natural or physical laws, paarsurrey, but believing in imaginary beings or magic or miracle, do defy them.

1. What specific natural or physical laws are defied by believing in something imaginary?

2. If the existence of said beliefs actually manage to defy the specific laws in your answer to question 1, does the mere breaking of those specific laws imply that there’s something beyond natural or physical laws? If not, why not?

How Imaginary Numbers Were Invented​

A general solution to the cubic equation was long considered impossible, until we gave up the requirement that math reflect reality.

 

[Brickjectivity]

This thread is about whether such a miracle can occur naturally, or whether it is story invented by a person who has no understanding of how wine are made.

Its a miracle, however the implications are not about wine but about baptism. Its written in John and has to do with what Jesus says to Nicodemus in chapter 3.

Normally wine is made by aging juice. It comes from a vine, and a vine is something which can be extended indefinitely through cuttings. Its like Israel which is never completely destroyed. You can always make a new vine using a cutting of an old one. If the vine becomes diseased you can restart by finding a clean section. From the vine comes grapes when can then be used fresh but can also be preserved through fermentation. Rather than going bad the wine gets increasingly more valuable.

The point of the story has to do with subverting this quality of the vine. In it each Jew is a product of the vine, kept pure through cuttings and careful preservation, then bottled and aged to perfection. Jesus proposes that instead water will be turned into wine. The untrained unparented can miraculously be changed into an equal to someone like that.

You might say its an obnoxious and arrogant claim made by whoever writes John, but there are other ways of looking at it. We have only just touched the subject. It has everything to do with eucharist. Recall that in eucharist we eat the flesh and drink the blood. The transformation transforms the partaker.

 

[paarsurrey]

Water into wine: natural or supernatural?

"Its written in John and has to do with what Jesus says to Nicodemus in chapter 3."

Just as John is not from Yeshua, the same way, I understand, Numbers 21(referenced in John) is not from Moses, please, right?

Regards

 

[WonderingWorrier]

You have discovered poetic language. I wouldn't make too much of it lest it lead you down the garden path into the wilderness.

Thanks for the warning. I think I have a sense of direction in the wilderness. Like I was saying before about the star, and the oil, and the sword connections. Showing that they are words in alignment with each other sharing the same position.

Corn - Olive - Grape
Bread - Oil - Wine
Moon - Star - Sun
Spear - Sword - Bow

Look at my word positioning above. And look at the wilderness here:

As the sword of the wilderness:
We gat our bread with the peril of our lives because of the sword of the wilderness. Lamentations.

As the wilderness where the Oil tree is planted:
I will plant in the wilderness the cedar, the ****tah tree, and the myrtle, and the oil tree; I will set in the desert the fir tree, and the pine, and the box tree together: Isaiah.


So just like sword is one of a three word set being Spears, Swords, and Bows.
And just like oil is one of another three word set being Bread, Oil, and Wine.


Wilderness is one of another three word set being: Desert, Wilderness, and Mountain.

"For they were departed from Rephidim, and were come to the desert of Sinai, and had pitched in the wilderness; and there Israel camped before the mount". Exodus.

Corn - Olive - Grape
Bread - Oil - Wine
Moon - Star - Sun
Spear - Sword - Bow
Desert - Wilderness - Mountain


So the wilderness is in direct alignment with what I was saying before. If I show a verse to make a point there are other verses that i didnt show that also make the same point. I dont jump to conclusions based on one or two verses. I can continue to verify what i say in various other ways.


Like as in this set of three words: Cattle - Goat - Sheep

"And as for you, O my flock, thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I judge between cattle and cattle, between the rams and the he goats". Ezekiel.


The Goat is in the wilderness:

Corn - Olive - Grape
Bread - Oil - Wine
Moon - Star - Sun
Spear - Sword - Bow
Desert - Wilderness - Mountain
Cattle - Goat - Sheep

"And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited: and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness". Leviticus.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Like being told I am talking about the Bible Code and that it has been proven false showing me a wikipedia page which has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

Talking about the Bible Code is not in and of itself nonsensical. It is something we disagree on, but I've spoken when many coherant people who are into the Bible Code.

We disagree because I'm aware that it has be debunked and you are not. The reason the Bible Code is insignificant is because the SAME PHENONENON can be found in ANY long text. You can literally do the same kind of analysis with Tolstoy's War and Peace and produce the same sort of results. Thus, this numerical deciphering is not evidence that the Bible is God;s Word -- unless of course you want to say that all books are God's Word.

The sentences of the Bible started out as being nonsense to me,

The Bible itself is not nonsensical. I never said that.

"And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart". Psalm.

THIS is where you start to become nonsensical. You are making connections that are simply not there. It suggests some kind of mild thought disorder.

Corn - Olive - Grape
Bread - Oil - Wine
Moon - Star - Sun
Spear - Sword - Bow

Yeah THIS is the stuff that is nonsensical. I honestly think you would benefit from talking to a counselor about this sort of thing. Not that you are psychotic or anything. But I am certainly concerned for you. I literally cannot follow your train of thought. There is nothing that associates Bread, Oil, and Wine, or Corn, Olive, and Grape. I can't make heads or tails out of what you are saying. Again, it may be helpful to you to seek counseling on this, if for no other reason than to rule out any serious problem.

What is associative looseness?
Associative looseness, also known as looseness of association or derailment, refers to a thought-process disorder characterized by disorganized speech due to a lack of connection between ideas. With associative looseness, ideas can be vaguely related to one another or completely unrelated, resulting in speech that is confusing and difficult to understand. Most often, associative looseness presents with a slow, steady loss of coherence, as the speaker’s thoughts become more disconnected with each sentence.

https://www.osmosis.org/answers/associative-looseness

 

[Pogo]

Talking about the Bible Code is not in and of itself nonsensical. It is something we disagree on, but I've spoken when many coherant people who are into the Bible Code.

We disagree because I'm aware that it has be debunked and you are not. The reason the Bible Code is insignificant is because the SAME PHENONENON can be found in ANY long text. You can literally do the same kind of analysis with Tolstoy's War and Peace and produce the same sort of results. Thus, this numerical deciphering is not evidence that the Bible is God;s Word -- unless of course you want to say that all books are God's Word.

The Bible itself is not nonsensical. I never said that.

THIS is where you start to become nonsensical. You are making connections that are simply not there. It suggests some kind of mild thought disorder.

Yeah THIS is the stuff that is nonsensical. I honestly think you would benefit from talking to a counselor about this sort of thing. Not that you are psychotic or anything. But I am certainly concerned for you. I literally cannot follow your train of thought. There is nothing that associates Bread, Oil, and Wine, or Corn, Olive, and Grape. I can't make heads or tails out of what you are saying. Again, it may be helpful to you to seek counseling on this, if for no other reason than to rule out any serious problem.

What is associative looseness?
Associative looseness, also known as looseness of association or derailment, refers to a thought-process disorder characterized by disorganized speech due to a lack of connection between ideas. With associative looseness, ideas can be vaguely related to one another or completely unrelated, resulting in speech that is confusing and difficult to understand. Most often, associative looseness presents with a slow, steady loss of coherence, as the speaker’s thoughts become more disconnected with each sentence.

https://www.osmosis.org/answers/associative-looseness

They are groupings of words that have a commonality such as fruits, weapons, processed foodstuffs etc.
that they occur together is not surprising. beyond that?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

They are groupings of words that have a commonality such as fruits, weapons, processed foodstuffs etc.

Only if you make the categories extremely broad do the groups of three have a relationship. Saying "Bread, Oil, Wine" have some kind of relationship mererly because they are foods is a senseless thing to say unless you are making a point, you know, give some context. There is no hidden meaning to these three words all being in a verse from the psalms.

 

[Pogo]

Only if you make the categories extremely broad do the groups of three have a relationship. Saying "Bread, Oil, Wine" have some kind of relationship mererly because they are foods is a senseless thing to say unless you are making a point, you know, give some context. There is no hidden meaning to these three words all being in a verse from the psalms.

Not to the words themselves, but they do group as categories and he has found some groups that he now thinks are significant for some other reason. We agree, there is no hidden meaning.

 

[WonderingWorrier]

Talking about the Bible Code is not in and of itself nonsensical. It is something we disagree on, but I've spoken when many coherant people who are into the Bible Code.

We disagree because I'm aware that it has be debunked and you are not. The reason the Bible Code is insignificant is because the SAME PHENONENON can be found in ANY long text. You can literally do the same kind of analysis with Tolstoy's War and Peace and produce the same sort of results. Thus, this numerical deciphering is not evidence that the Bible is God;s Word -- unless of course you want to say that all books are God's Word.

People think they can understand everything they hear. Because people interpret everything they hear into a way that they themselves can understand. Interpreting everything we hear is what creates misunderstandings that will feel like understanding what is said.

I was saying people have thought that I'm talking about the Bible Code. That is their interpreting of what I am saying, by turning it into a way they can understand, and dismiss. I never said I am into the Bible code. People just assume that I am. They connect me to it because it is something they know of. A box to put me in. But what I am saying has nothing to do with it.

The Bible itself is not nonsensical. I never said that.

I never said you said it. I was talking about myself.

THIS is where you start to become nonsensical. You are making connections that are simply not there. It suggests some kind of mild thought disorder.

Ok. We are talking about a verse that has the three words Bread, Oil, and Wine in it. You say that they are not connected just because the three words are in one verse of psalms. The connection is simply not there.

Here:

"And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart". Psalm.

Lets take a closer look.

Only if you make the categories extremely broad do the groups of three have a relationship. Saying "Bread, Oil, Wine" have some kind of relationship mererly because they are foods is a senseless thing to say unless you are making a point, you know, give some context. There is no hidden meaning to these three words all being in a verse from the psalms.

Notice all three words are also contained in this verse too:

"And he will take your fields, and your vineyards, and your oliveyards, even the best of them, and give them to his servants". Samuel


And all three can be seen in this verse too:
And when he had set the brands on fire, he let them go into the standing corn of the Philistines, and burnt up both the shocks, and also the standing corn, with the vineyards and olives. Judges.

Because the bread is of the corn of the field, and the wine is of the grapes of the vineyard, and the oil is of the olive tree of the oliveyard.

Yeah THIS is the stuff that is nonsensical.

This stuff is my attempt of how someone might possibly understand what I am talking about. A visual explanation of what is being said. I thought seeing the layers of words (and highlighted words) should help with hearing the speech in the Bible that talks through the different layers.


Like here is another set of the three words Bread, Oil, and Wine in one verse:

"And the earth shall hear the corn, and the wine, and the oil; and they shall hear Jezreel". Hosea

The verse suggests people can't hear the three words.



I know the verse doesn't say Bread, it says Corn (Grain). But you should be able to understand the concept that Corn is connected to Bread.

Bread - Oil - Wine
Corn - Olive - Grape
Field - Oliveyard - Vineyard

Do you get the point?



So when I hear sentences like saying the River being as Oil:

"Then will I make their waters deep, and cause their rivers to run like oil, saith the Lord God". Ezekiel


This is me trying to explain what I hear the verse clearly saying:

Sea - River - Stream
Bread - Oil - Wine

It is speaking through different layers. The words are in alignment.

I honestly think you would benefit from talking to a counselor about this sort of thing. Not that you are psychotic or anything. But I am certainly concerned for you. I literally cannot follow your train of thought. There is nothing that associates Bread, Oil, and Wine, or Corn, Olive, and Grape. I can't make heads or tails out of what you are saying. Again, it may be helpful to you to seek counseling on this, if for no other reason than to rule out any serious problem.

I thank you for an honest answer. This is very helpful. If nobody can understand what I am talking about then I need to stop thinking about religion and go back to my life.

 

[Banach-Tarski Paradox]

People think they can understand everything they hear. Because people interpret everything they hear into a way that they themselves can understand. Interpreting everything we hear is what creates misunderstandings that will feel like understanding what is said.

It helps to read along with the lyrics.

Stairway to Heaven Backwards (With FULL Lyrics)

 

[WonderingWorrier]

they do group as categories and he has found some groups that he now thinks are significant for some other reason.

The speech moving through the groups and bringing them into alignment is significant.


It is like hearing Isaiah saying the wolf with the lamb, the leopard with the kid goat, and lion with the calf. People call it a magical prophecy.

"The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them". Isaiah

I hear it as two different layers being in their alignments.

Like this:

Cattle - Goat - Sheep
Lion - Leopard - Wolf


If you can comprehend the concept of what I am saying and you would like to see more reason I can show this:

North - West - East
Bread - Oil - Wine
Cattle - Goat - Sheep
Lion - Leopard - Wolf

Because I can also explain everything I have said in a twelve position format.


Like showing according to the twelve gates and through the gate of Jospeh and the gate of Benjamin in the East.

"And at the east side four thousand and five hundred: and three gates; and one gate of Joseph, one gate of Benjamin, one gate of Dan". Ezekiel


In the East the wolf is with the lamb:

Give ear, O Shepherd of Israel, thou that leadest Joseph like a flock; thou that dwellest between the cherubims, shine forth. Psalm

"Benjamin shall ravin as a wolf: in the morning he shall devour the prey, and at night he shall divide the spoil". Genesis

Benjamin the Wolf, and Joseph the Sheep, are together in the East.

North - West - East
Bread - Oil - Wine
Cattle - Goat - Sheep
Lion - Leopard - Wolf

Now I could explain in detail within the twelve position format which gates are connected to Bread, which gates are connected to Oil, and which gates are connected to Wine.

What do you think of when considering a twelve position concept with different symbols assigned to the positions?

The speech reminds me of a Zodiac wheel.

 

[WonderingWorrier]

They are groupings of words that have a commonality such as fruits, weapons, processed foodstuffs etc.
that they occur together is not surprising. beyond that?

The groupings of words in the twelve gates show Ephraim being of Joseph of the East gate is connected to the Wine.


"And they of Ephraim shall be like a mighty man, and their heart shall rejoice as through wine: yea, their children shall see it, and be glad; their heart shall rejoice in the Lord". Zechariah


While through Asher of the West gate is connected to the Oil:

"At the west side four thousand and five hundred, with their three gates; one gate of Gad, one gate of Asher, one gate of Naphtali". Ezekiel.

"And of Asher he said, Let Asher be blessed with children; let him be acceptable to his brethren, and let him dip his foot in oil". Deuteronomy.


And Reuben of the North gate is connected to the cattle in the corn. Bread.

"Now the children of Reuben and the children of Gad had a very great multitude of cattle: and when they saw the land of Jazer, and the land of Gilead, that, behold, the place was a place for cattle"; Numbers

"For it is written in the law of Moses, thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?" Corinthians.


North - West - East
Bread - Oil - Wine
Cattle - Goat - Sheep
Lion - Leopard - Wolf

Showing weapons in twelve position format, Ephraim of the East gate has a bow:
"The children of Ephraim, being armed, and carrying bows, turned back in the day of battle". Psalm.


Benjamin of the East gate also has a bow while Judah of the North gate has spear:

"And Asa had an army of men that bare targets and spears, out of Judah three hundred thousand; and out of Benjamin, that bare shields and drew bows, two hundred and fourscore thousand: all these were mighty men of valour". Chronicles.


Judah has spears just like the cattle and spears:

"Rebuke the company of spearmen, the multitude of the bulls, with the calves of the people, till every one submit himself with pieces of silver: scatter thou the people that delight in war". Psalm


Reuben with cattle, and the lion of Judah:

"And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof". Revelation.



Judah is with Reuben. The lion is with the cattle.

"And the gates of the city shall be after the names of the tribes of Israel: three gates northward; one gate of Reuben, one gate of Judah, one gate of Levi". Ezekiel.


So just as the wolf is with the lamb in the East, the lion is with the calf in the North.

In the places of Bread, Oil, and Wine.

North - West - East
Bread - Oil - Wine
Cattle - Goat - Sheep
Lion - Leopard - Wolf
Spear - Sword - Bow

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I was saying people have thought that I'm talking about the Bible Code. That is their interpreting of what I am saying, by turning it into a way they can understand, and dismiss. I never said I am into the Bible code.

Ah, my misunderstanding. So sorry!

As for the rest of your post, I have learned in my life that when someone speaks this way, it serves no purpose to try to reason with them. I realize you don't see that you are finding hidden meanings in things that really have no hidden meaning. Again, my suggestion is to talk about this with a counselor, but since you cannot see the problem, my guess is that you won't do that.

I wish you the best.

 

[paarsurrey]

1. What specific natural or physical laws are defied by believing in something imaginary?

2. If the existence of said beliefs actually manage to defy the specific laws in your answer to question 1, does the mere breaking of those specific laws imply that there’s something beyond natural or physical laws? If not, why not?

How Imaginary Numbers Were Invented​

A general solution to the cubic equation was long considered impossible, until we gave up the requirement that math reflect reality.

The Alphabetic and the numbers are kind of our imaginative terminology/methodology as also Numbers to understand the natural phenomena and to share our knowledge between us the humans, else, they don't exist in real, as I understand, please, Right?

Regards

 

[gnostic]

The groupings of words in the twelve gates show Ephraim being of Joseph of the East gate is connected to the Wine.


"And they of Ephraim shall be like a mighty man, and their heart shall rejoice as through wine: yea, their children shall see it, and be glad; their heart shall rejoice in the Lord". Zechariah


While through Asher of the West gate is connected to the Oil:

"At the west side four thousand and five hundred, with their three gates; one gate of Gad, one gate of Asher, one gate of Naphtali". Ezekiel.

"And of Asher he said, Let Asher be blessed with children; let him be acceptable to his brethren, and let him dip his foot in oil". Deuteronomy.


And Reuben of the North gate is connected to the cattle in the corn. Bread.

"Now the children of Reuben and the children of Gad had a very great multitude of cattle: and when they saw the land of Jazer, and the land of Gilead, that, behold, the place was a place for cattle"; Numbers

"For it is written in the law of Moses, thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?" Corinthians.


North - West - East
Bread - Oil - Wine
Cattle - Goat - Sheep
Lion - Leopard - Wolf

Showing weapons in twelve position format, Ephraim of the East gate has a bow:
"The children of Ephraim, being armed, and carrying bows, turned back in the day of battle". Psalm.


Benjamin of the East gate also has a bow while Judah of the North gate has spear:

"And Asa had an army of men that bare targets and spears, out of Judah three hundred thousand; and out of Benjamin, that bare shields and drew bows, two hundred and fourscore thousand: all these were mighty men of valour". Chronicles.


Judah has spears just like the cattle and spears:

"Rebuke the company of spearmen, the multitude of the bulls, with the calves of the people, till every one submit himself with pieces of silver: scatter thou the people that delight in war". Psalm


Reuben with cattle, and the lion of Judah:

"And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof". Revelation.



Judah is with Reuben. The lion is with the cattle.

"And the gates of the city shall be after the names of the tribes of Israel: three gates northward; one gate of Reuben, one gate of Judah, one gate of Levi". Ezekiel.


So just as the wolf is with the lamb in the East, the lion is with the calf in the North.

In the places of Bread, Oil, and Wine.

North - West - East
Bread - Oil - Wine
Cattle - Goat - Sheep
Lion - Leopard - Wolf
Spear - Sword - Bow

You may find 3-word associations to food, animals, plants, weapons, etc, and quoting passages outside of gospel of John (eg Psalms, Isaiah, etc), may have some sorts of meanings to you, and repeating them over and over again...still don't make it relevant to the thread's topic.

It is completely off-topic. And it isn't relevant the topic, so why keep repeating these word associations again, when I have already disagree with you?

Repeating the same thing over and over again, won't make it any more persuasive than the 1st time you wrote these list of associations.

All I am questioning (in this thread) is whether turning water into wine can naturally occur, or can it only happen supernaturally?

 

[WonderingWorrier]

Again, my suggestion is to talk about this with a counselor, but since you cannot see the problem, my guess is that you won't do that.

I think I can see the problem.

Ah, my misunderstanding. So sorry!

Someone who misunderstands what I am saying.

I wish you the best.

Is shrugging me off.

As for the rest of your post, I have learned in my life that when someone speaks this way, it serves no purpose to try to reason with them.

Having a conclusion based on past experiences with others.

I realize you don't see that you are finding hidden meanings in things that really have no hidden meaning.

I realise that I can show you a verse that you might think is unconnected:


Silver spread into plates is brought from Tarshish, and gold from Uphaz, the work of the workman, and of the hands of the founder: blue and purple is their clothing: they are all the work of cunning men. Jeremiah

And i can connect them:

Brass - Silver - Gold
Red - Purple - Blue


Through this layer of three words:
And of the blue, and purple, and scarlet, they made cloths of service, to do service in the holy place, and made the holy garments for Aaron; as the Lord commanded Moses. Exodus.


And through this layer of three words:
To devise cunning works, to work in gold, and in silver, and in brass. Exodus



Notice the verse mentioning gold and silver, purple and blue did not mention red or brass. One word from each layer was left out.

Red and Brass are connected.

Like through the Red Sea:

Brass - Silver - Gold
Red - Purple - Blue
Sea - River - Stream

And through the Red heifer:

Brass - Silver - Gold
Red - Purple - Blue
Sea - River - Stream
Cattle - Goat - Sheep



I can hear this verse is speaking through the layers, connecting them into their alignment: Sea, Brass, Cattle:

The two pillars, one sea, and twelve brasen bulls that were under the bases, which king Solomon had made in the house of the Lord: the brass of all these vessels was without weight. Jeremiah


My connecting of Sea, Brass, and Cattle is a not new concept.
Can you understand that purple is a mixture of red and blue?

Probably not. Going by your replies I think you dont give what I say much attention.

 

[gnostic]

1. What specific natural or physical laws are defied by believing in something imaginary?

2. If the existence of said beliefs actually manage to defy the specific laws in your answer to question 1, does the mere breaking of those specific laws imply that there’s something beyond natural or physical laws? If not, why not?

How Imaginary Numbers Were Invented​

A general solution to the cubic equation was long considered impossible, until we gave up the requirement that math reflect reality.

Of course, numbers and maths were invented.

Maths (together with numbers and equations) are - in lot of cases - do represent reality, because they are higher logic than various logical reasonings, making useful and valuable tools, not just in mathematics alone. Also in various sciences, especially in Natural Sciences & Physical Sciences, in designs & engineering, businesses & finance, and so on.

It is not merely imaginary, as maths have wide-ranging applications, as well as helping people (eg theoretical physicists) problem solving.

Isaac Newton was one of two inventors of calculus (the other being Newton’s contemporary, Gottfried Wilhelm Lizbniz), were responsible for revolutionising mathematics, it provide numerous solutions to problems, including Newton’s own physics on the laws of motion and law of .universal gravitation.

Particularly in physics, where many of the scientific theories not only just used words that explain and predict how the natural & physical world work, it wouldn’t have been possible without creative problem solving, using vectors & matrices, with or without calculus, to formulate many well-known equations.

Examples. Michael Faraday was a genius experimental physicist, who first contributed to understanding of electromagnetic fields, but it was the genius of Faraday’s younger contemporary, James Clerk Maxwell, who developed the mathematical framework (using calculus) of understanding electromagnetism with the Maxwell’s Equations.

Likewise, Albert Einstein have developed equations that provide more accurate understanding than Newton’s original laws, eg the Mass-Energy Equivalence formula (E = m c^2) for Special Relativity (1905) and set of equations for gravity In General Relativity (1915), known as the Einstein’s Field Equations that describe gravity as curvature of spacetime. The field equations used tensor calculus.

The Einstein’s Field Equations for GR, provided a number of theoretical cosmological models, including Einstein’s failed Static Universe model (1917), the Steady-State model of Hermann Bondi, Thomas Gold & Fred Hoyle (1948-1951), and the equation for the Expanding Universe model (1920s), which was later as the Big Bang model in 1949, where Alexander Friedmann (1922), Georges Lemaître (1927), and Howard Percy Robertson with Geoffrey Walker (1935) have independently formulated metric (FLRW metric) to be used with Einstein’s field equations that provide the exact solution for expanding universe. Einstein’s field equations then became the Friedmann Equations when used with the Big Bang theory.

Then there are numbers of different equations developed for Quantum Mechanics and Quantum Field Theory, contributed by number of different theoretical physicists:

• Max Planck: the black-body radiation
• Albert Einstein: the wave-particle duality in his Photoelectric Effect paper (1905)
• Paul Dirac: Dirac Equation to be used in particle physics
• Wolfgang Pauli: the Pauli Equation (1927)
• Erwin Schrödinger: Schrödinger equation (1925)
• and many more

Their maths help solved some of the fundamental & real-world concepts about nature.

Saying it is just “imaginary” doesn’t do any justice on maths and numbers created understanding that weren’t possible without these maths.