Ways to avoid being fooled or intimidated in Internet discussions?

[Jim]

One way that I’ve seen people being fooled, or intimidated into silence about their views, is people using “God says,” “the scripture says,” “science says” or “the evidence says” as reasons for believing or not believing something. All I’ve learned to do about that is to not be fooled or intimidated by it, myself. Maybe another way is to encourage and support other people who are learning not to be fooled or intimidated by it.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

One way that I’ve seen people being fooled, or intimidated into silence about their views, is people using “God says,” “the scripture says,” “science says” or “the evidence says” as reasons for believing something. All I’ve learned to do about that is to not be fooled or intimidated by it, myself. Maybe another way is to encourage and support other people who are learning not to be fooled or intimidated by it.

Why does it have to be seen as intimidation or a method to silence?

We can choose just to accept that a person wants us to consider something they have found in Science, or in Faith, or in life.

We can choose to make up our own mind.

Regards Tony

 

[osgart]

You could just claim non sequitur on people's claims and be done with it.

Some people like to redmark people's logic with their official logic.

What follows for one doesn't follow for others often.

Logic alone doesn't prove or disprove an argument. Evidence is required.

 

[Jim]

Why does it have to be seen as intimidation or a method to silence?

I’m not objecting to people quoting their scriptures and/or saying what they think those scriptures are saying, how it looks to them.

 

[Jim]

Fooling and intimidating people with “science says” includes probabilities and opinion polls.

 

[Revoltingest]

Fooling and intimidating people with “science says” includes probabilities and opinion polls.

Poor science....always being misquoted.

 

[Jim]

One way that I see not to be fooled or intimidated is learn to be aware of when you’re doing it, or tempted to do it, yourself. Another way is by learning to do your own research. The most consequential way might be to learn to satisfy your psychological and social needs without any admiration or approval from anyone, and everyone with everyone around you disparaging and vilifying you. People are fooled and intimidated by their own factions and social circles far more than by anyone or anything else.

it might help sometimes to be aware of some specific tactics that are used, consciously or unconsciously. One specifically Baha’i tactic is Baha’is quoting from Baha’i writings about unity or about ignoring people’s faults if another Baha’i objects to anything that they’re saying or doing. They obviously don’t think that it’s always wrong for any Baha’i to object to what any other Baha’is are doing, because that’s exactly what they’re doing to you, slapping your hand with those quotes. They’re just using those quotes to shame you into silence about what they’re doing, or submission to it. Sometimes they might think of themselves as being open to constructive criticism, or even welcoming it, but if so they don’t see any possibility of it ever coming from other Baha’is.

I’ve seen the same tactic used by Christians, using what Jesus says about not judging people. There might be similar tactics used in other religions.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I’m not objecting to people quoting their scriptures and/or saying what they think those scriptures are saying, how it looks to them.

because that’s exactly what they’re doing to you, slapping your hand with those quotes. They’re just using those quotes to shame you into silence about what they’re doing, or submission to it.

I’ve seen the same tactic used by Christians, using what Jesus says about not judging people.

It all seems confused Jim.

In the end, most of these discussions are on RF debate sections. Mostly I see a quote is used to support a view, to which the other can consider in the view to offer a rebuttal, or they can consider the quote is valid.

I am happy for anyone to quote to the cows come home, if I have time I, get to read more scriptures than I otherwise might not have read, or in some cases, hear wise words from enlightened people.

Either way, to me there is always something learned, even if it is not the people exchanging the views, it may be someone reading the exchange, it may be it has ramifications beyond this world.

All the best, regards Tony

 

[Jim]

I’m posting now to stand my ground on what I’ve been saying about people misrepresenting and misusing research reports and religious scriptures to validate prejudices, delusions, animosities and hostilities. I think that there needs to be a lot more awareness of research reports being misrepresented and misused in that way.

I am not equating the research and the scriptures, themselves. When people call what they think some research says “science,” and what people think some scriptures say “religion,” then I am equating that “science” and that “religion,” in all their psychological and social motivations and harmful consequences.

 

[Jim]

If it looks sometimes like I’m denouncing misuse of research more than misuse of scriptures, it might be because it looks to me like misuse of research is a lot more popular, and denied more aggressively and by more people, than misuse of scriptures.

 

[Jim]

As religious beliefs have progressively lost their credibility and popularity for validating prejudices and delusions, instead of giving up their prejudices and delusions, people have mostly just substituted science beliefs in the place of religious ones. By “science beliefs,” I mean what people say that the research says, and not the research itself.