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We don't need to take materialist atheism as a whole seriously.

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Yes, as it doesn't fit with materialism life fields remain mostly ignored and unknown, as is common with a dominating cultural ideology. And it's very sad, because the work could be so extremely helpful in medicine and mental health.
It's ignored because it's made up fantasy. Electric and magnetic fields are real however and here is an actual example of how electric fields can be used to help treat mental illness.
How Brain Pacemakers Treat Parkinson’s Disease

In DBS, an implanted device sends tiny jolts of electricity through neurons, acting somewhat like a brain pacemaker. The technique is widely accepted as a treatment for Parkinson’s and other movement disorders; more than 100,000 patients have received implants that help control their tremors, rigidity, and other kinetic symptoms.


As can be seen, electrical and magnetic energy is used in many medical applications for diagnostics (like MRI, cardiograms) and healing like bioelectricity therapy.
Bioelectric Therapy and Pain Management

Bioelectric therapy is a safe, drug-free treatment option for people in pain. It is used to treat some chronic pain and acute pain conditions. It relieves pain by blocking pain messages to the brain. When you are injured, pain receptors send a message to the central nervous system (the brain and spinal cord). The message is registered as pain by certain cells in the body. Using bioelectric currents, bioelectric therapy relieves pain by interrupting pain signals before they reach the brain. Bioelectric therapy also prompts the body to produce endorphins which help to relieve pain.


The actual scientific results on electrical and magnetic field energies in biology had been pursued, built upon and used to develop mature treatments. What was never demonstrated and turned out to be fantasy were all the esoteric notions of L field or mystical energies you were talking about.
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
It's ignored because it's made up fantasy. Electric and magnetic fields are real however and here is an actual example of how electric fields can be used to help treat mental illness.
How Brain Pacemakers Treat Parkinson’s Disease

In DBS, an implanted device sends tiny jolts of electricity through neurons, acting somewhat like a brain pacemaker. The technique is widely accepted as a treatment for Parkinson’s and other movement disorders; more than 100,000 patients have received implants that help control their tremors, rigidity, and other kinetic symptoms.


As can be seen, electrical and magnetic energy is used in many medical applications for diagnostics (like MRI, cardiograms) and healing like bioelectricity therapy.
Bioelectric Therapy and Pain Management

Bioelectric therapy is a safe, drug-free treatment option for people in pain. It is used to treat some chronic pain and acute pain conditions. It relieves pain by blocking pain messages to the brain. When you are injured, pain receptors send a message to the central nervous system (the brain and spinal cord). The message is registered as pain by certain cells in the body. Using bioelectric currents, bioelectric therapy relieves pain by interrupting pain signals before they reach the brain. Bioelectric therapy also prompts the body to produce endorphins which help to relieve pain.


The actual scientific results on electrical and magnetic field energies in biology had been pursued, built upon and used to develop mature treatments. What was never demonstrated and turned out to be fantasy were all the esoteric notions of L field or mystical energies you were talking about.

So they don't exist but are used in medicine all the time? Yeah...
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
1137

My issue is that this was an argument against materialism, with points against materialism, and the entire idea of having to defend gods in this thread is a red herring. Because you cannot address the seven point, you ignore them and flip the question around.

I addressed all that thoroughly back in #40, and pointed it out to you when you didn't reply. I see I was wrong to assume you'd read it at that time.

If you have any reasoned arguments against what I said there, feel free to raise them, of course.

you can be an atheist and not a materialist.

D'accord.
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member

I literally don't understand your question. Like really?

1137

My issue is that this was an argument against materialism, with points against materialism, and the entire idea of having to defend gods in this thread is a red herring. Because you cannot address the seven point, you ignore them and flip the question around.

I addressed all that thoroughly back in #40, and pointed it out to you when you didn't reply. I see I was wrong to assume you'd read it at that time.

If you have any reasoned arguments against what I said there, feel free to raise them, of course.

you can be an atheist and not a materialist.

D'accord.

Dude, you don't get alerted half the time time if your don't get quoted or tagged.
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
1137

Dude, you don't get alerted half the time time if your don't get quoted or tagged.

Your thread is about materialism and about atheism.

In #40 I replied to the points in your OP.

And I asked you two consequent questions, since I believe the answers will either validate or invalidate your OP.

Your move.
 

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
I don't count myself worthy
so.....if I walk among the angelic later on....

it is by their grace

not yours


Nobody is talking about my "grace" here. We were speaking of your hubris-- in presuming that the Ultimate Creator has the slightest awareness of you. And that you presume this being cares at all about you, sufficient to even grant you this .... ahem.... "grace".

Ego, much?
 

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
so......nothing created everything else.....including life....

Created? Ego....... yours is overwhelmingly large, here-- you simply must have it, such that you are cosmically significant to the entire universe!

Nobody ---- not even you-- has demonstrated 'Created.'

I reject that hypothesis for 100% lack of any facts in support of it.

Show me your work: Prove that "created" is required.
 

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
so......nothing created everything else.....including life....

with NO thought
with NO SELF volition

and the response you are are about to make required no thought
because......dead substance has beget the living

Again-- your EGO is HUGE. Seriously. Your EGO is so vast, that you simply cannot fathom anything OTHER than YOU being Cosmically Significant.

I got some bad news for you: you are not even significant to your own planet!
 

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
So they don't exist but are used in medicine all the time? Yeah...

Strawman objection on your part: Nobody is claiming "they don't exist", silly.

We are simply objecting to inserting -- unproved -- magical properties to these EM fields.

For starters? Nobody has established that "magic" is a real phenomena.

Which rather ruins 100% of all god claims so far presented by humans; as they all require magic to work.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Nobody is talking about my "grace" here. We were speaking of your hubris-- in presuming that the Ultimate Creator has the slightest awareness of you. And that you presume this being cares at all about you, sufficient to even grant you this .... ahem.... "grace".

Ego, much?
nah.....but I believe the peace of heaven is guarded

if you have what it takes to stand from your dust.....avoid the grave....
you will draw the attention of heaven

and so it is written....Pray you are worthy to stand before God
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
Strawman objection on your part: Nobody is claiming "they don't exist", silly.

We are simply objecting to inserting -- unproved -- magical properties to these EM fields.

For starters? Nobody has established that "magic" is a real phenomena.

Which rather ruins 100% of all god claims so far presented by humans; as they all require magic to work.

So... can you quote me talking about "magical properties" related to life fields?
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
Materialism has officially become dangerous in my eyes. Not in any way to the extent of Islamic extremism, fascism, or other rising positions in the world, but dangerous nonetheless. Why?

1. The death of skepticism: even the slightest skeptical questioning casts doubt on materialism, for how can we reduce the mind to matter when we know the mind directly and matter through it? Can we trust our senses that there's a physical world out there? Is there really no other valid possibility in the world? Skepticism is about doubt whereas materialism is a position of certainty. There's very little questioning of it and that questioning is dogmatically brushed off rather than addressed. With the increasing popularity of materialism this is very dangerous.

2. Neglect of the mind and its role in health and happiness is dangerous. Even just the simple way we perceive our situation has an effect on us, such as whether we believe we are happy or not. To have any hope of treating the mentally ill we need to address both mind and brain, not simply the latter. We have to address subjective symptoms, not simply what physical ailments areimmediately noticable.

3. The rejection of all immaterial things completely destroys concepts such as math and logic. In materialism these things must be mind dependent, where they exist as concepts, at least according to materialism. But the idea that things like math and logic, which lead us to objective truth and intelligent thought, are mind dependent is extremely dangerous. It basically allows for whatever one wants to be true to be treated as true, because logical and mathematical truths are more or less subjective and fabricated. Any group that teaches things like logic to be relative posses a threat to knowledge and growth. An ignorant community is one ripe for the plucking!

4. Life-Fields are another thing rejected by materialists. Despite being confirmed by thousands of experiments, and leading to massive break throughs in medicine like predicting ovulation, materialists reject the idea of L-Fields, and in fact likely never have heard of them due to them being ignored in mainstream science specifically for not fitting with materialism (see #1). Life-Fields can help us predict things like ovulation, cancer, birth defects in a developing egg, highs and lows of mental stability, even things like when would be the best time for someone to learnsomething. The benefits to human life could be so numerous, but alas since L-Fields bring questions like Teleology and design to the table, they are simply ignored by materialists who care neither for scientific truth nor human life.

5. Materialism greatly implies a belief in hard predeterminism, as there is nothing to stand against the every flowing onslaught of nature. If this this the case there's simply no hope in ever changing or improving upon any situation. Why would we go to a doctor or see a counselor if nothing we do can actuallychange anything? Of course some realize, almost self evidently for many of us, that we can indeed go against the flow of material nature. We can manipulate it such as to make medications in this example, or use the strength of our mind to recondition the way we act and think. These being only two small examples!

Now sure, materialists are not going around killing people, I'd never pretend they're as bad as extremist groups like ISIL. But materialism is dangerous in a much longer run, it's taking over culture far more quickly than ISIL could ever hope to, and it's ingrained in us for most of our lives, stuck as part of our education systems, dominating the way we view and treat human life. There may not be genocide, but it's still dangerous nonetheless. It's led to a death of doubt and questioning, led to a rejection of the power and independent existence of the mind, it is forced to push a view of logic andmathematics (which sciences like physics rely on) as mind dependent and therefore not objective or real, it ignores hard science that can benefit humanity simply so that it's authority as leading philosophy cannot be questioned, and it leads to a point of nihilism where we may as well wallow in ourproblems because nothing can stand up to the flow of the material world.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I do. Do you not understand that the changes Dr. Burr proved preceded the physical?

Still not even an attempt to defend against or even address the OP!
No he did not prove any such thing whatsoever.
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
No he did not prove any such thing whatsoever.

Ha! Ok, you're totally free to deny scientific experiments, just like you can deny evolution, or think we lived with dinosaurs, or that the Earth is flat. That you (1) can't even address or defend against the OP, and (2) are willing to deny scientific data handed directly to you, says everything any honest intellectual could want to know about your position.
 
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