WE (I) BELIEVE IN THE FATHER, SON, AND HOLY.

[metis]

God first church is from the New Testament. Not the Catholic Church of Rome.

Maybe actually study some history of the Church: Christianity - Wikipedia

 

[Pipiripi]

Maybe actually study some history of the Church: Christianity - Wikipedia

Wikipedia is not a BIBLE CHRISTIANS. The Bible is the first church. People that have followed Jesus from Acts till Revelation. And Peter wasn't the first Pope.

 

[Pipiripi]

Verse 8 & 17 associates the "first and the last" with The Lord God and with Jesus Christ.

The son denotes the man, always. Only be extension is what is in heaven denoted by "son."

In Heb "son" is introduced by "in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son." That is the man Jesus. So every reference to son is primarily a reference to the man Jesus. The son is then assumed to be eternal, but it doesn't infer that God begat a "son" in heaven.

I think you must read my statement again and this time with your Bible. Everywhere that you have seen a title and verse, go in your Bible and see if everything is Biblical. First go and see what means begotten.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Saint Frankenstein it is good to meet you... In the Old Testament the Prophets were the voice of God, the Priests were the Hands of God! In the new Testament the Bishops take the roll to a degree of the prophet and the Priests are the hands! Jesus gave the KEYS to Peter and only to Peter. Jesus made Peter the Shepherd of God' flock!

John 21:16 Again Jesus said, “Simon son of John, do you love me?” He answered, “Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.” Jesus said, “Take care of my sheep.”

Matthew 16:17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.
18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

Saint Frankenstein notice verse 17 (above) God from heaven kept Peter from error!


When the Pope speaks ex cathedra he is speaking for God! Jesus established One Church before he ascended.... It was the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church with the Key holder as head! All others were formed by men! Men such as Luther, Zwindel, Russell, Calvin, King Kenry etc.. All church that are NOT Catholic all who reject the authority of the Pope are protestant they are IN PROTEST against God!

Nice to meet you, as well.

Yes, I know about the beliefs about the Pope. I am Catholic, although I don't go to a Roman Catholic parish any more. I personally tend to agree more with the Orthodox when it comes to the issue of the Pope's authority.

 

[Dogknox20]

Nice to meet you, as well.

Yes, I know about the beliefs about the Pope. I am Catholic, although I don't go to a Roman Catholic parish any more. I personally tend to agree more with the Orthodox when it comes to the issue of the Pope's authority.

Saint Frankenstein; Sorry to hear you left the Holy Catholic Church! You do know and understand the word "Roman" was added to the One Church Jesus established by Protestant Anglicans their thinking was.. "If we add the word ROMAN then that will imply there are other Catholic Churches"! FACT IS: The Catholic Church was always named "The Catholic Church"! Saying Catholic can only mean the Church with roots back to Peter the Key Holder! You say you are Catholic but in truth you are not; Catholics accept the AUTHORITY of the Pope the direct linage of Peter the Key Holder!

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Saint Frankenstein; Sorry to hear you left the Holy Catholic Church! You do know and understand the word "Roman" was added to the One Church Jesus established by Protestant Anglicans their thinking was.. "If we add the word ROMAN then that will imply there are other Catholic Churches"! FACT IS: The Catholic Church was always named "The Catholic Church"! Saying Catholic can only mean the Church with roots back to Peter the Key Holder! You say you are Catholic but in truth you are not; Catholics accept the AUTHORITY of the Pope the direct linage of Peter the Key Holder!

I don't need you preaching at me, honestly. Roman or Latin Rite, I think you know what I meant. I'm not a Protestant. I don't go to a Catholic parish anymore because of the way they treat LGBT people. I would not be welcome as myself. But I still hold to most of the Catholic doctrines.

 

[eik]

I think you must read my statement again and this time with your Bible. Everywhere that you have seen a title and verse, go in your Bible and see if everything is Biblical. First go and see what means begotten.

I really don't understand you. Son infers son of man, as well as son of God. The two are counterparts, different sides of the same coin. You can't have one without the other.

 

[eik]

When the Pope speaks ex cathedra he is speaking for God! Jesus established One Church before he ascended.... It was the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church with the Key holder as head! All others were formed by men! Men such as Luther, Zwindel, Russell, Calvin, King Kenry etc.. All church that are NOT Catholic all who reject the authority of the Pope are protestant they are IN PROTEST against God!

Jesus did not establish the Pope as head of his church. He did not withhold the keys from the other apostles. Peter was also a man who died. There were eleven other apostles. Protestants do not protest against God, but justify their protests by reference to scripture. Your doctrine seems far-fetched,

 

[LightofTruth]

Peter was not a Trinitarian. And neither was/is Jesus

What's your evidence for that?

1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Peter recognizes that the Lord Jesus Christ has a God and a Father. Therefore, the same God who is Jesus' God would also be Peter's God.

 

[metis]

Wikipedia is not a BIBLE CHRISTIANS.

The above doesn't even make any sense whatsoever.

Also, I posted that link because Wikipedia is not connected to any one religion or denomination. On top of this, you offered nothing in return.

The Bible is the first church

The Bible is a book; the Church is what Jesus created as an organization based on his teachings.

People that have followed Jesus from Acts till Revelation.

But scattered people do not form a "church", which means "congregation". As Paul stated, the Church is "one body".

And Peter wasn't the first Pope.

Correct, as the title "Pope" wasn't used until several centuries later. OTOH, it's obvious that you didn't either read or didn't understand what Ignatius wrote to Clement about the special designation of the Bishop of Rome.

Let me suggest you do some serious studying on this matter.

 

[metis]

1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Peter recognizes that the Lord Jesus Christ has a God and a Father. Therefore, the same God who is Jesus' God would also be Peter's God.

Which is exactly what the Trinitarian concept teaches, plus more. Here: Trinity - Wikipedia

What we see over and over again here at RF, are so many who simply misunderstand what the Trinitarian concept is about, which sometimes makes me wonder if their own denomination or church is teaching them such nonsense. It does not posit three gods, nor does it say the three "divisions" are one and the same.

So, please, if you wish to comment on this post, first thoroughly read the link I provided you thoroughly.

 

[LightofTruth]

Jesus did not establish the Pope as head of his church. He did not withhold the keys from the other apostles. Peter was also a man who died. There were eleven other apostles. Protestants do not protest against God, but justify their protests by reference to scripture. Your doctrine seems far-fetched,

Mat 16:13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
Mat 16:14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Mat 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Mat 16:20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

Roman Catholics claim that Jesus made Peter the first Pope.

However, according to the above text, Jesus said that Peter was blessed because Peter recognized Jesus as the Anointed one (Christ) of God who was also the son of the living God. Jesus in turn says, "thou are Peter", and therefore the rock on which the church is built is based on the recognition of who Jesus is (Christ, son of the living God) and on Jesus recognizing who you are.
The above passage has nothing to do with Jesus making Peter the first Pope.

The keys of the kingdom of heaven that were given to Peter refer to Peter's preaching and opening THE DOOR of salvation as we can read in Acts 2:14-42

 

[LightofTruth]

Which is exactly what the Trinitarian concept teaches, plus more. Here: Trinity - Wikipedia

What we see over and over again here at RF, are so many who simply misunderstand what the Trinitarian concept is about, which sometimes makes me wonder if their own denomination or church is teaching them such nonsense. It does not posit three gods, nor does it say the three "divisions" are one and the same.

So, please, if you wish to comment on this post, first thoroughly read the link I provided you thoroughly.

Is Jesus' God a trinity?

 

[metis]

Is Jesus' God a trinity?

Obviously you didn't read what I posted, so I have no interest in wasting my time. The link is there.

 

[metis]

Roman Catholics claim that Jesus made Peter the first Pope.

See post #110.

 

[LightofTruth]

Obviously you didn't read what I posted, so I have no interest in wasting my time. The link is there.

I'm not new to this game. I know what the orthodox Trinitarian doctrine claims.

Please answer my question. "Is Jesus' God a trinity?" or not.

 

[Dogknox20]

I don't need you preaching at me, honestly. Roman or Latin Rite, I think you know what I meant. I'm not a Protestant. I don't go to a Catholic parish anymore because of the way they treat LGBT people. I would not be welcome as myself. But I still hold to most of the Catholic doctrines.

Nothing wrong with LGBT as long as you abstain from sin!

Saint Frankenstein No Catholic Parish would condone a LBGT lifestyle and NONE would condemn or judge anyone who is attracted to the same gender as long as they did not act on their urges! Priests take a vow of chaste so don't say it is not possible! You say you are a member of an Anglican church they also read the same bible Catholic read.....

1 Timothy 1:10 for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine

1 Corinthians 5:8 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world.
11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.

1 Corinthians 6:9 Don’t you know that unrighteous people will have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don’t delude yourselves — people who engage in sex before marriage, who worship idols, who engage in sex after marriage with someone other than their spouse, who engage in active or passive homosexuality,

1 Corinthians 6:18 Flee sexual immorality! “Every sin that a man does is outside the body,” but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body.

Saint Frankenstein ... Hebrews 12:16 Be careful that no one takes part in sexual sin. And be careful that no person is unholy like Esau. He sold all his rights as the oldest son for a single meal.

Hebrews 13:4 Marriage is honorable in every respect; and, in particular, sex within marriage is pure. But God will indeed punish fornicators and adulterers.

Saint Frankenstein this verse (below) lumps the Sexually Immoral in with murderers!
Revelations 21:8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

You can run but you can't hide from God!

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Nothing wrong with LGBT as long as you abstain from sin!

Saint Frankenstein No Catholic Parish would condone a LBGT lifestyle and NONE would condemn or judge anyone who is attracted to the same gender as long as they did not act on their urges! Priests take a vow of chaste so don't say it is not possible! You say you are a member of an Anglican church they also read the same bible Catholic read.....

1 Timothy 1:10 for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine

1 Corinthians 5:8 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world.
11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.

1 Corinthians 6:9 Don’t you know that unrighteous people will have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don’t delude yourselves — people who engage in sex before marriage, who worship idols, who engage in sex after marriage with someone other than their spouse, who engage in active or passive homosexuality,

1 Corinthians 6:18 Flee sexual immorality! “Every sin that a man does is outside the body,” but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body.

Saint Frankenstein ... Hebrews 12:16 Be careful that no one takes part in sexual sin. And be careful that no person is unholy like Esau. He sold all his rights as the oldest son for a single meal.

Hebrews 13:4 Marriage is honorable in every respect; and, in particular, sex within marriage is pure. But God will indeed punish fornicators and adulterers.

Saint Frankenstein this verse (below) lumps the Sexually Immoral in with murderers!
Revelations 21:8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

You can run but you can't hide from God!

I told you not to preach to me. It's a violation of forum rules.

 

[LightofTruth]

Which is exactly what the Trinitarian concept teaches, plus more. Here: Trinity - Wikipedia

What we see over and over again here at RF, are so many who simply misunderstand what the Trinitarian concept is about, which sometimes makes me wonder if their own denomination or church is teaching them such nonsense. It does not posit three gods, nor does it say the three "divisions" are one and the same.

So, please, if you wish to comment on this post, first thoroughly read the link I provided you thoroughly.

From the link you posted (I added the bold print)

Jesus in later Christian theology[edit]
Some have suggested that John presents a hierarchy[29][30] when he quotes Jesus as saying, "The Father is greater than I", a statement which was appealed to by nontrinitarian groups such as Arianism.[31] However, Church Fathers such as Augustine of Hippo and Thomas Aquinas argued this statement was to be understood as Jesus speaking about his human nature.[32][33]

The Christian doctrine of the Trinity (Latin: Trinitas, lit. 'triad', from Latin: trinus "threefold")[1] holds that God is one God, but three coeternal consubstantial persons[2] or hypostases[3]—the Father, the Son (Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirit—as "one God in three Divine persons". The three persons are distinct, yet are one "substance, essence or nature" (homoousios).[4] In this context, a "nature" is what one is, whereas a "person" is who one is.[5]

So, if we ask "what is Jesus?" the answer is Jesus is God because he has the nature of God(the WHAT which makes him God). And we must also say that Jesus is man because he has the nature of man(the WHAT which makes him man).
Therefore, according to trinitarianism, What Jesus is is both God and man.
And if we ask "who is Jesus", the answer is that he is God, according to trinitarianism.

Therefore, what Jesus is, and who Jesus is are the same thing.....namely God.

Jesus cannot therefore be a PERSON who has a God and be God himself. The only thing that could have a God is the WHAT Jesus is.....the human nature.

if human nature is a WHAT and not a rational person then it cannot have a God. It takes a rational person to believe in the God of Scripture.

 

[Dogknox20]

Mat 16:13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
Mat 16:14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Mat 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Mat 16:20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

Roman Catholics claim that Jesus made Peter the first Pope.

However, according to the above text, Jesus said that Peter was blessed because Peter recognized Jesus as the Anointed one (Christ) of God who was also the son of the living God. Jesus in turn says, "thou are Peter", and therefore the rock on which the church is built is based on the recognition of who Jesus is (Christ, son of the living God) and on Jesus recognizing who you are.
The above passage has nothing to do with Jesus making Peter the first Pope.

The keys of the kingdom of heaven that were given to Peter refer to Peter's preaching and opening THE DOOR of salvation as we can read in Acts 2:14-42

LightofTruth good to meet you.. BUT what you say is NOT scriptural!
God the Father from Heaven kept Peter from error! Verse 17
I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

LightofTruth Give "YOU" is singular... Jesus hands the Keys to Peter, keys are a symbol of AUTHORITY!

The Early Church Fathers tell you Jesus made Peter the head of the Church! Scriptures tell you Jesus made Peter his Shepherd, a person in charge of God' flock!!

1. St. Peter (32-67)
2. St. Linus (67-76)
3. St. Anacletus (Cletus) (76-88)
4. St. Clement I (88-97)
5. St. Evaristus (97-105)
6. St. Alexander I (105-115)
7. St. Sixtus I (115-125) Also called Xystus I
8. St. Telesphorus (125-136)
9. St. Hyginus (136-140)
10. St. Pius I (140-155)
11. St. Anicetus (155-166)
12. St. Soter (166-175)
13. St. Eleutherius (175-189)
14. St. Victor I (189-199)
15. St. Zephyrinus (199-217)
16. St. Callistus I (217-22) Callistus and the following three popes were opposed by St. Hippolytus, antipope (217-236)
17. St. Urban I (222-30)
18. St. Pontian (230-35)
19. St. Anterus (235-36)
20. St. Fabian (236-50)
21. etc etc....... 265 popes in an unbroke chain up to today Pope Francis! Pope Francis has an unbroken linage back to Peter the first pope! LightofTruth ONLY the One Holy Catholic Church is APOSTOLIC! She has historic claim to Peter and thus Jesus!

LightofTruth Jesus changed Simons name to ROCK!
42 And he brought him to Jesus.
Jesus looked at him and said, “You are Simon son of John. You will be called Cephas” (which, when translated, is Peter).