Comprehend
Res Ipsa Loquitur
Why do you think the 6 defendants should not be charged with a crime? Do you not believe they beat the kid?
I'm confused.
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Wear Black Today - Support the Jena 6
- Thread starter lillitruthseeker
- Start date
Why do you think the 6 defendants should not be charged with a crime? Do you not believe they beat the kid?
I'm confused.
Comprehend
Res Ipsa Loquitur
It depends (everything depends in the law
). It could be an assault if there was someone there when the nooses were hung that had a reasonable belief that they were in imminent danger.
If the kids hanged the nooses (hung the neese? LOL) and ran away before anyone discovered them, there is no possibility of assault. Also, even if someone saw them there with the nooses, if there was no belief that the kids were actually going to hang someone, or if the kids didn't communicate any threats it would be very very difficult to argue that there was an assault.
It just depends on the facts of the case and I am not aware of what the facts are.
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
There are many injustices in this world. One NEVER justifies the other! Were the assailants identified and yet not prosecuted? Could you send us a link to this event?
It was also 6 against 1 and he was unconscious. Are only those requiring a week's worth of hospital stay worthy of protection under the law?
So you promote and condone violence. I get that.
I don't remember Martin Luther King Jr. ever resorting to violence. The same can be said for Desmond Tutu and Mahatma Gandhi. I expect them to act within the law, and should they break the law, they should be held accountable.
Again, two wrongs DON'T make a right. The others should be punished as well.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I would guess the hanging of a noose could be chargeable as a harassment, given the situation they hung it after the black kid said he wanted to sit under the tree, but that would be incredible difficult to prove.
While I do say, given my knowledge of the event, attempted murder seems harsh, but they should have realized the kid would have went to the police. 6 on 1 though is rather a large amount, and given the severity of a beating, it is possible to interpret it as attempted murder.
I might just NOT wear black today. I just see no reason for protest.
While I do say, given my knowledge of the event, attempted murder seems harsh, but they should have realized the kid would have went to the police. 6 on 1 though is rather a large amount, and given the severity of a beating, it is possible to interpret it as attempted murder.
I might just NOT wear black today. I just see no reason for protest.
Storm
ThrUU the Looking Glass
The link provided left out several key points of the story as I've heard it.
1) Before any assaults took place, a school assembly was held to 'address' the noose-hanging incident. The black students were basically told to get over it. The white DA told them that he could "take [their] lives away with a stroke of [his] pen."
2) Before the Jena 6 assault, several white students (3 iirc) beat up a black student. They were suspended from school for 3 days, and no criminal charges were pressed.
3) In another incident, several black students were threatened by a white student brandishing a pistol-grip shotgun at them. One of the black students wrestled the gun away from him, and refused to return it. He was charged with "theft of a firearm, second degree robbery, and disturbing the peace." Can you guess what the white student was charged with? Nothing. Source Wiki: Jena 6
I'm looking for press links to back up the story of the first fight.
Context matters. The story as I've heard it so far smacks of blatant racism.
1) Before any assaults took place, a school assembly was held to 'address' the noose-hanging incident. The black students were basically told to get over it. The white DA told them that he could "take [their] lives away with a stroke of [his] pen."
2) Before the Jena 6 assault, several white students (3 iirc) beat up a black student. They were suspended from school for 3 days, and no criminal charges were pressed.
3) In another incident, several black students were threatened by a white student brandishing a pistol-grip shotgun at them. One of the black students wrestled the gun away from him, and refused to return it. He was charged with "theft of a firearm, second degree robbery, and disturbing the peace." Can you guess what the white student was charged with? Nothing. Source Wiki: Jena 6
I'm looking for press links to back up the story of the first fight.
Context matters. The story as I've heard it so far smacks of blatant racism.
Comprehend
Res Ipsa Loquitur
I would be interested to see a source on that info (wiki is not a source).
Aqualung
Tasty
Yeah, I agree. Violence, even as a response to racial acts or even as a response to other violence, shouldn't be "supported".
That may be the case, but there are plenty of people who "deserve" to get beat up for one reason or another. But it shouldn't be about what people "deserve" - people should basically be able to do whatever they want as long as it doesn't infringe upon another's right to do so. Hanging a noose doesn't infringe upon anybody's right, no matter how distasteful or even hateful it might be. Beating somebody up, on the other hand, does, no matter how much that person deserved it.lillithutruthseeker said:
Storm
ThrUU the Looking Glass
Most of that was from memory. Like I said, I'm looking, but Google is mostly turning up blogs. I can't remember where I found the article that I first read.
Grappleberry Punch
Member
Anyone who says something like "violence shouldn't be supported" is missing the point by so much it's depressing. Well, no ****.
Jena 6 Incident Story Timeline | digtriad.com | National & World News
There's a random timeline, but there are other timelines all over anywhere, it's been big news for almost a year.
It was an average jr high/high school schoolyard fight. A kid was talking **** and got it kicked out of him, not so badly that he wasn't able to go to a school function later that evening. The Jena Six, assuming they are even guilty, should be suspended for a few months, maybe get charged on battery. They got attempted second degree murder. Their "weapon"? Shoes. That's the point.
--White kids who hung nooses (definitely assault)--suspended, and no criminal charges were filed, as it was classified as a "harmless prank". This is what started the whole thing off.
--Black kids who came to protest the noose-hanging peacefully--were told that they would have their lives taken away with the stroke of the DA's pen if they didn't shut up.
--White kid who beat up black kid Robert Bailey at the party and broke a bottle on his head--simple battery w/ probation.
--3 Black kids (including Robert Bailey) who wrestle a gun out of the hand of the white student who pulled it on them--charged with theft of firearm, second-degree robbery, and disturbance of the peace.
--Black kids who beat up white kid talking **** about Robert Bailey w/ racial slurs the next day--given jail with bails of up to $138,000, and charged with second degree murder and conspiracy to commit second degree murder. Their charges are later reduced to the only slightly less ridiculous (still a serious felony) charge of "aggravated second-degree battery" and "conspiracy to commit second degree battery. Of course, in order to be "aggravated", these kids would have to be using some sort of weapon--which is defined as their shoes.
Of course, it should be noted that this was a big crowd, we don't even know if these six were involved, or if they were involved, if they actually hit the victim.
The first kid, Mychal Bell, age 16, tried as an adult. He's tried by an all white jury, one of the members is friends with the mother of the victim, another is a highschool classmate of the DA. As he's not rich, he has a state appointed defender, who doesn't even call a single witness, witnesses that were there can't even recall if Mychal Bell was there, and if he was there, if he kicked or hit the victim at all. The victim can't remember if Bell in particular was there. Of course our Bell is found guilty after only 3 hours deliberation and faces up to 22 1/2 years in jail.
This isn't about supporting violence, this is about supporting justice. If you can't see that, then I feel sorry for you. Yes, if those kids were involved, that is wrong, they should get simple battery or a suspension. Not aggravated battery, not attempted second-degree murder, not 2 decades of life in jail for getting into a fight on the playground maybe. That's not justice.
Jena 6 Incident Story Timeline | digtriad.com | National & World News
There's a random timeline, but there are other timelines all over anywhere, it's been big news for almost a year.
It was an average jr high/high school schoolyard fight. A kid was talking **** and got it kicked out of him, not so badly that he wasn't able to go to a school function later that evening. The Jena Six, assuming they are even guilty, should be suspended for a few months, maybe get charged on battery. They got attempted second degree murder. Their "weapon"? Shoes. That's the point.
--White kids who hung nooses (definitely assault)--suspended, and no criminal charges were filed, as it was classified as a "harmless prank". This is what started the whole thing off.
--Black kids who came to protest the noose-hanging peacefully--were told that they would have their lives taken away with the stroke of the DA's pen if they didn't shut up.
--White kid who beat up black kid Robert Bailey at the party and broke a bottle on his head--simple battery w/ probation.
--3 Black kids (including Robert Bailey) who wrestle a gun out of the hand of the white student who pulled it on them--charged with theft of firearm, second-degree robbery, and disturbance of the peace.
--Black kids who beat up white kid talking **** about Robert Bailey w/ racial slurs the next day--given jail with bails of up to $138,000, and charged with second degree murder and conspiracy to commit second degree murder. Their charges are later reduced to the only slightly less ridiculous (still a serious felony) charge of "aggravated second-degree battery" and "conspiracy to commit second degree battery. Of course, in order to be "aggravated", these kids would have to be using some sort of weapon--which is defined as their shoes.
Of course, it should be noted that this was a big crowd, we don't even know if these six were involved, or if they were involved, if they actually hit the victim.
The first kid, Mychal Bell, age 16, tried as an adult. He's tried by an all white jury, one of the members is friends with the mother of the victim, another is a highschool classmate of the DA. As he's not rich, he has a state appointed defender, who doesn't even call a single witness, witnesses that were there can't even recall if Mychal Bell was there, and if he was there, if he kicked or hit the victim at all. The victim can't remember if Bell in particular was there. Of course our Bell is found guilty after only 3 hours deliberation and faces up to 22 1/2 years in jail.
This isn't about supporting violence, this is about supporting justice. If you can't see that, then I feel sorry for you. Yes, if those kids were involved, that is wrong, they should get simple battery or a suspension. Not aggravated battery, not attempted second-degree murder, not 2 decades of life in jail for getting into a fight on the playground maybe. That's not justice.
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
Wasn't this conviction overturned?
As I said, change the venue if needed, but there is no need for violence... ever.
Sorry, if that doesn't meet your idea of justice, but I refuse to support people trying to duck out of being held responsible for inflicting pain on anyone.
I ALSO believe that the whites who hung the nooses AND the one who brandished the weapon AND those who beat up the black kid should be tried as well. This is as much about the acceptance of violence as it is the acceptance of racism. BOTH are just plain wrong.
Ever learning
Active Member
Smoke
Done here.
I always wear black, but certainly not in defense of the Jena Six.
I sincerely hope that this post was an attempt to provoke discussion, and not an indication of what you really think.
I've heard no reports that Justin Barker was the one who hung the nooses, and none of the forty statements about the beating even mentioned the nooses.
Racism is endemic in Louisiana, and throughout the South -- and indeed throughout most of the United States. However, I fail to see how a rally in support of six violent teenagers is going to help that. Support the Jena Six?! That's disgusting!
If the Jena Six were six white teenagers who had beaten and kicked a black teenager till he was unconscious, would we have a rally in support of the Jena Six? Maybe, if the Klan held a rally. But no decent people would be rallying in support of a white Jena Six, and they shouldn't either.
If we care about getting over racism, if we care about preventing violence in the schools, we don't rally in support of violence, and we don't rally to exacerbate racial tensions. A rally to support harmony, to make peace, I could see that. But that's not what we had. We had a rally in support of six violent youths, only one of whom has been tried -- and his conviction was overturned almost a week before the rally. The one youth who was tried has four previous convictions for violent crimes. This is who you want me to support?
This is the reason conservatives are able to believe that liberals are mushheaded fools; because so many of us fall for stuff like this. Idiocy like rallying for the Jena Six gives us all a bad name. It's stupid and short-sighted, it makes things worse, and frankly, it's racist.
People who make heroes of people like Mychal Bell ought to have their heads examined.
Grappleberry Punch
Member
Yes, thanks to all those folk supposedly "supporting violence". He's now in juvenile court facing 15. It's still supposedly aggravated assault.
No one said there was. :slap: Kids get into fights, it happens, we do what we can to correct that behavior.
They aren't trying to duck out of being "held responsible". Wtf? We don't know if they even did anything, and if they did, no one is saying they shouldn't be held responsible for their actions--aka a schoolyard fight. Let the punishment fit the crime, and tbh, the charges don't even remotely fit on either side. We are raising money so these kids can have a fair trial, with witnesses and charges that fit with the eyewitness accounts. Fair trial =/= ducking out of being held responsible, and you should be ashamed if that's what you honestly think.
Then you should be protesting, because they weren't. The kid who beat up Robert Bailey got simple assault with probation, exactly what the Jena Six should get at most, assuming that any of them are even guilty.
:slap: The only ones accepting any violence are the Jena Law Enforcement and School Officials, accepting the violence of the white kids. And I agree, it's plain wrong. And they happen to be the ones ducking out of being held responsible for inflicting pain.
Aqualung
Tasty
It wasn't average, and reading the time line should show you that. It was one incident in a long chain of racially motivated violence.
Grappleberry Punch
Member
It is backlash from the chain of racially motivated violence, difference.
You're right, it does follow the "kid talking trash"--"kid gets beat" model of schoolyard fights--though tbh, Barker's **** was more like venom, and while that makes this fight a little more understandable, it's not more acceptable.
kateyes
Active Member
I have a diffucult time seeing how hanging 3 nooses in a tree-is comparable to beating the living **** out of someone.
Hanging the nooses was in really bad taste, shows questionable judgement--and I suppose could be viewed as an implied threat--however I don't see it as an assault. Beating anyone up particularily 4 or 5 guys against one--shows a serious intent to do bodily harm (assault)--attempted murder seems a step to far--but I don't see how you could just ignore the whole thing.
My nephew was badly beaten up his junior year in high school--for sitting and talking to a girl (the instigator of the attack was her boyfriend whom she had just had a fight with). This young man and 3 of his friends--jumped my nephew (not a small boy 6 ft 200lbs) pummelled him with thier fists and landed several kicks to his head after he was on the ground--he ended up with a concussion and a ruptured ear drum. It could have been alot worse except some of his friends came running over and the attacking kids ran off. The school refused to take any action (it was on school grounds but after an evening football game). The police were called--but in the end didn't bring any charges because hey it was just a school kids fight. After my nephew received several further threats-and the school refused any action-my brother was finally able to get my nephew switched to another school system. Why am I relaying this story--because about 5 months later 2 of the boys involved in the attack beat up another boy (3 broken ribs, a broken arm, a ruptured spleen, concussion, and 47 stitches), who nearly died. This time the police did arrest and charge the boys, who were sentenced to time.
You cannot allow these kinds of attacks to go unpunished--it goes beyond being a race issue--and a beating seems way out of proportion to me compared to hanging nooses in a tree.
Hanging the nooses was in really bad taste, shows questionable judgement--and I suppose could be viewed as an implied threat--however I don't see it as an assault. Beating anyone up particularily 4 or 5 guys against one--shows a serious intent to do bodily harm (assault)--attempted murder seems a step to far--but I don't see how you could just ignore the whole thing.
My nephew was badly beaten up his junior year in high school--for sitting and talking to a girl (the instigator of the attack was her boyfriend whom she had just had a fight with). This young man and 3 of his friends--jumped my nephew (not a small boy 6 ft 200lbs) pummelled him with thier fists and landed several kicks to his head after he was on the ground--he ended up with a concussion and a ruptured ear drum. It could have been alot worse except some of his friends came running over and the attacking kids ran off. The school refused to take any action (it was on school grounds but after an evening football game). The police were called--but in the end didn't bring any charges because hey it was just a school kids fight. After my nephew received several further threats-and the school refused any action-my brother was finally able to get my nephew switched to another school system. Why am I relaying this story--because about 5 months later 2 of the boys involved in the attack beat up another boy (3 broken ribs, a broken arm, a ruptured spleen, concussion, and 47 stitches), who nearly died. This time the police did arrest and charge the boys, who were sentenced to time.
You cannot allow these kinds of attacks to go unpunished--it goes beyond being a race issue--and a beating seems way out of proportion to me compared to hanging nooses in a tree.
Grappleberry Punch
Member
!!!! That's not the "living ****" out of someone, he was fine by that evening. And unlike the nooses, they had understandable (arguably not excusable) reason.
::Sigh::, no one is "ignoring" it. You're missing the entire point so much I think you're doing it on purpose. The nooses is definitely assault, that threat isn't "implied" it's as blatant and clear as day--sit under this tree again and we will lynch you. Do you realize how powerful that is? How scary that is to be 14, 15, 16, 17 years old and have to see that sort of message? And don't forget, it's not just the noose kids, it's the kids who beat up the black student, and the kid who pulled a gun on black students.
No one is saying the Jena Six should be unpunished (providing they are even guilty, which hasn't been remotely proven). What they are saying is that the racist attacks by white students should be punished, and that the punishment for the Jena 6, provided they are even guilty (after being tried fairly) should suit their crimes. No reclassifying their shoes as "deadly weapons" in order to get a aggravated, or appointing ridiculously biased juries, or not even taking into account that some witnesses say they weren't there. Can you not see the absolutely huge difference here? Or do you just not want to see the difference?
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
Both are wrong and both are motivated by hate.
The cycle HAS to be broken somehow and somewhere. Excusing any of the violence will cause it to continue.
Grappleberry Punch
Member
It most certainly won't be broken by charging these black kids with aggravated second degree battery, it will cause more anger among the black citizens and a higher sense of entitlement and power in white kids. The cycle isn't one of "hate", it's one of white kids getting off with a slap on the wrist while black kids get ridiculous punishments and no justice. I can't believe you are excusing the actions of the law enforcement officials. How much can you miss the point.
Nooses were motivated by racial supremacy, the beating was motivated by anger, not hate.