Wear Black Today - Support the Jena 6

[lilithu]

Amen. Though I should say, regardless of the reason, Bell deserved a fair jury.

Indeed. And as far as I can see, if people hadn't drawn attention to this case, those kids would STILL be charged with ATTEMPTED MURDER and Bell's conviction for ATTEMPTED MURDER would have stood. So I don't understand how anyone who wants justice can be against the protesters.

 

[Scuba Pete]

White or black, maybe they didn't get the notice. Maybe their employers wouldn't let them off work even tho they're supposed to. Maybe they couldn't find child care.

More often then not, those who don't show up for jury duty do not feel an obligation to their community. IOW, they just don't care enough to show. That is no one's fault but their own. THEY let down the accused as much as anyone.

You simply can't effect social change if you won't show up at the court house!

 

[Smoke]

Indeed. And as far as I can see, if people hadn't drawn attention to this case, those kids would STILL be charged with ATTEMPTED MURDER and Bell's conviction for ATTEMPTED MURDER would have stood. So I don't understand how anyone who wants justice can be against the protesters.

Bell was neither tried for, nor convicted of, attempted murder.

 

[Grappleberry Punch]

Bell was neither tried for, nor convicted of, attempted murder.

Yep, thus the "if people hadn't drawn attention to this case" bit. Bell and company were originally charged with "attempted second-degree murder", facing up to 100 years without parole.

You also say that supporting the Jena Six is "disgusting"...do you think those charges were reasonable?

 

[lilithu]

Bell was neither tried for, nor convicted of, attempted murder.

Pardon me, charged with ATTEMPTED MURDER, the charges being reduced when there was outcry. You have yet to answer whether or not you think this charge was justified.

 

[Smoke]

Pardon me, charged with ATTEMPTED MURDER, the charges being reduced when there was outcry. You have yet to answer whether or not you think this charge was justified.

I don't really know. Certainly a group of six doesn't kick a person in the head repeatedly with any good intention. Nor is it clear to me that the charges were reduced because of the protests.

What is clear is that the protesters have disseminated a lot of false information and continue to play fast and loose with the facts. I tend to distrust such people.

Tell me, what exactly do you think needs to be done, and why?

 

[Scuba Pete]

I agree with Midnight Blue on this. The sentence was overturned without the benefit of the protesters. It also appeared that the trial (pre-protesters) was for the reduced charges as well. Do we know WHEN the charges were reduced?

 

[lilithu]

I don't really know. Certainly a group of six doesn't kick a person in the head repeatedly with any good intention. Nor is it clear to me that the charges were reduced because of the protests.

What is clear is that the protesters have disseminated a lot of false information and continue to play fast and loose with the facts. I tend to distrust such people.

Tell me, what exactly do you think needs to be done, and why?

I agree with Midnight Blue on this. The sentence was overturned without the benefit of the protesters. It also appeared that the trial (pre-protesters) was for the reduced charges as well. Do we know WHEN the charges were reduced?

Which protesters are you two talking about? I posted about this over two months ago:
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...4381-more-racial-injustice-free-jena-6-a.html

And before that, this website had already existed for some time:
Jena Six Petition

And it is NOT at all clear to me that the protesters have disseminated a lot of false information. I suppose you will trust who you trust as will I.

 

[YmirGF]

I think they should have been charged with aggrevated assualt using a deadly weapon. Violence is never the way to deal with any problem, period. It is so odd listening to babble about "justice" in regards to the manner people are treated by the American Criminal Justice system. So what do you do? Stack juries in favor of the accused?

 

[gnomon]

So we either support setting the Jena 6 free or else be branded intolerant. No room for the middle ground. That middle ground namely being justice.

 

[Buttons*]

So we either support setting the Jena 6 free or else be branded intolerant. No room for the middle ground. That middle ground namely being justice.

Pretty much man. Shows you just how dualistic our society is. And how much we love to point the finger at others

 

[gnomon]

Upon further reflection I think Lilithu is right on one major point.

That actions taken by the state in leveling criminal charges against six African Americans are harsh considering previous actions taken against whites who were charged with crimes of battery and given light sentences such as probation. It's just hard for me to rally around six people accused of beating someone needlessly. I find any excuse for their actions rather abhorrent and the media attention given to them while so many minorities suffer from prejudicial treatment in the name of the War on Drugs. Look at any list of innocent victims in our ridiculous drug war and you will see one Hispanic name after another.

So no, I cannot rally around the notion of setting the Jena 6 free. Nor can I agree with the ideal that teenagers not be treated as adults in the face of physical violence. I find the comments that the victim in this case deserved it to be repugnant and intellectually irresponsible. The media attention around this story and the actual "facts" of the racism among the town are vague and largely not sourced.

I can only keep asking myself where the hell are the two reverends for Cory Maye. Where the hell are the supposed keepers of equality and liberty when Ashley Villareal was shot in the head and so many others suffer needlessly due to the idiotic drug war. If true justice is to be sought in this case then it seems that there should be a push to levy harsher sentences in the few cases mentioned on news sites related to this case rather than lighten up on some people, and let's not forget this...

beat another human being.

edit: I can't help but recall when a high school student here in Georgia several years ago killed another student by one blow to the back of the head. Nor the fights I witnessed where one student picked up another and dropped him on his head resulting in a long hospital stay and severe injury. To treat such individuals as children is absurd but to treat them as adults is an issue as well.

 

[lilithu]

So we either support setting the Jena 6 free or else be branded intolerant.

Not by me. My initial feeling was that they should go free based on the information I originally had. That the victim was already conscious by the time the EMT arrived and that he was released from the hospital shortly thereafter. Given the events that led up to that incident - and I DO BELIEVE the events that led up to it, such as hanging of the nooses, the escalating violence including arson, and the beating of a black student prior - it seemed to me that the fight was understandable, if not justifiable. And given that the charges were so excessively harsh, my initial reaction was to throw the whole thing out.

But I cannot deny that a beating took place, and that people should be held responsible for their actions. I only want the process of accountability to be fair. And I really don't think that it would have been fair if the local court had been left alone to its own devices. I honestly don't see how anyone can say that racism was not involved here and that the protesters are just playing a race card in order to avoid justice. :no:

Perhaps there was over-reaction on "our side," but it was in reaction to the gross injustice that is still blatantly obvious to me. And my frustration right now is not that people aren't willing to throw the cases out. It's that people can deny that racism is involved. And that people can so easily dismiss the credibility of the protesters. I would say that this is an eye-opener, but sadly it is not new.

 

[gnomon]

Not by me. My initial feeling was that they should go free based on the information I originally had. That the victim was already conscious by the time the EMT arrived and that he was released from the hospital shortly thereafter. Given the events that led up to that incident - and I DO BELIEVE the events that led up to it, such as hanging of the nooses, the escalating violence including arson, and the beating of a black student prior - it seemed to me that the fight was understandable, if not justifiable. And given that the charges were so excessively harsh, my initial reaction was to throw the whole thing out.

But I cannot deny that a beating took place, and that people should be held responsible for their actions. I only want the process of accountability to be fair. And I really don't think that it would have been fair if the local court had been left alone to its own devices. I honestly don't see how anyone can say that racism was not involved here and that the protesters are just playing a race card in order to avoid justice. :no:

Perhaps there was over-reaction on "our side," but it was in reaction to the gross injustice that is still blatantly obvious to me. And my frustration right now is not that people aren't willing to throw the cases out. It's that people can deny that racism is involved. And that people can so easily dismiss the credibility of the protesters. I would say that this is an eye-opener, but sadly it is not new.

Fair points. I may be somewhat prejudiced by my views on other judicial issues and my general disdain for the media and certain public figures.

I think it remains to be seen exactly how much initial escalation was caused by the accounts given by the MSM and how much of the accounts they created. In the end, I would prefer to see the judge and prosecutor persue this with the exact same mentality they persue other cases given and noted by media accounts noting that white defendants involved with assault be given the same due process here. I just cannot support any sort of dropping of all charges of a group of individuals who clearly engaged in assault. Especially considering that one of those charged has prior assault and battery convictions.

I also believe it speaks volumes that certain civil rights activists seem to be present in cases such as these and that of Tookie Williams, Mumia Abu Jamal but yet seem to be no where near the Duke lacrosse case, the case of Cory Maye, that of Richard Paey or so many others where such clear cases of judicial misconduct or clear cases of racism are present.

My overall fear is that this case may unjustly paint an entire town, in which the protestors outnumbered the whole population by five times, is that generalizations by the MSM will stick and any objective reasoning will win through. We have witnessed such a case at Ruby Ridge where the MSM jumped on unfounded charges of a racism as well as that of Waco. But hopefully, reason will win out.

I apologize, lilithu, if my earlier statement seemed to brand you as one of claiming intolerance of others. I know better than to accuse you of that. Yet it has already been brought forth in this forum that the victim in this case deserved the beating. Such attitudes cannot go unchallenged for the simplistic mentality they represent. However, I hold no such thoughts towards yourself and do appreciate your efforts in first bringing this contentious case to light. It may be that I am absolutely wrong in my attitudes and I will freely admit just that once evidence comes forth proving otherwise. Your views are always appreciated by me.

 

[lilithu]

I apologize, lilithu, if my earlier statement seemed to brand you as one of claiming intolerance of others. I know better than to accuse you of that. Yet it has already been brought forth in this forum that the victim in this case deserved the beating. Such attitudes cannot go unchallenged for the simplistic mentality they represent. However, I hold no such thoughts towards yourself and do appreciate your efforts in first bringing this contentious case to light. It may be that I am absolutely wrong in my attitudes and I will freely admit just that once evidence comes forth proving otherwise. Your views are always appreciated by me.

No need to apologize gnomon. I responded to your post but I was not taking any of this personally. Well, yes and no. It is deeply personal to me in that the continuing racial divide in America causes me a lot of pain. But I will not hold these disagreements personally against anyone. (If I did, I'd think I'd go insane.) You and MB and NetDoc are some of my favorite people on RF and that will remain the case unless one or more of you undergo a serious personality transplant.

I do not believe that anyone deserves to be beaten and kicked unconscious. You are right. People need to be held accountable when they intentionally hurt someone else. And thank you for your thoughts here as well - both where you were willing to reconsider and where you stood firm.

 

[Grappleberry Punch]

I also believe it speaks volumes that certain civil rights activists seem to be present in cases such as these and that of Tookie Williams, Mumia Abu Jamal but yet seem to be no where near the Duke lacrosse case, the case of Cory Maye, that of Richard Paey or so many others where such clear cases of judicial misconduct or clear cases of racism are present.

Not everyone can be everywhere. Differenct cases attract more or less activists. The Jena Six story had a hard time catching on with mainstream activists, but I think one of the reasons it eventually floated to the surface becaue they were 14, 16, 17, 18 year old kids facing 100 years in jail. When we hear about racial double standards in our court system--yea, it's upsetting, but in a lot of ways, we've come to expect it a little. You can dig up thousands of little cases. When it happens to little kids? It 's sad. Their whole lives could've been taken from them.

I just cannot support any sort of dropping of all charges of a group of individuals who clearly engaged in assault. Especially considering that one of those charged has prior assault and battery convictions.
They weren't "clearly" engaged. Different witnesses are claiming different things, the witnesses are mostly kids who have their own biases...not to mention that eyewitness evidence, especially when there was such a large group and no way to distinguish what kids crowded in to see what was going on vs. what kids went up and kicked him when he was down. Let alone what kid started the fight and knocked out Barker in the first place.

A lot of people on this thread are acting like it's a simple case of the Jena Six walking up to Barker, stomping him until he is knocked out, and then getting charged with aggravated assault.

Really, an unknown kid knocked out barker (probably Shaw), and a few other kids there who heard what Barker was saying rushed forward and kicked him, and more kids rushed over to see what the fuss was about--and it builds on itself, like school fights do. They had an investigation, and next thing you know they just so happened to decide to charge the same six kids who were involved in protesting the nooses hanging on the tree for attempted second degree murder.

tbh, I think Mychal probably kicked Barker. He does have a record, and we know he was there...Barker was actually specifically getting in Mychal's face, and giving him the finger, and I know any 16 year old kid, regardless of history, would be tempted to kick him, especially as everyone else was. Even adults can fall for that mob mentality. It's not right, and I hope that 5 years from now, not any of the kids involved would stoop to Barkers level--not even Barker. lol.

 

[Grappleberry Punch]

3 links I thought were valuable to share w/ anyone who is interested...

The Town Talk - www.thetowntalk.com - Alexandria-Pineville, Louisiana

Justin Barker was taken by ambulance to LaSalle General Hospital's emergency room, arriving at 12:25 p.m., according to court documents. A report from the ambulance company stated Barker "denies any pain other than his eye."

Once in the emergency room, Barker told medical personnel that he had been "jumped by 15 guys" and was unsure of what he had been hit with, according to the emergency physician's record in the court file. The record noted an injury to Barker's right eye requiring follow-up medical attention and injuries to his face, ears and hand.

A Computed Tomography scan of Barker's brain showed no abnormalities, but there were reports of him losing consciousness during the attack, according to hospital records.

So basically a kid getting a black eye is worth second degree murder charges. If kids really did kick him after that, they certainly didn't kick very hard. Compare this to a girl who really is a victim of a gang attack (though Barker claims 15 guys jumped him to give him his single black eye, and this girl was only attacked by 3 other girls), and look at the difference....

ITN - Victim of bullying attack speaks out


ALSO:
White Supremacists Urge Jena Retaliation


Then the leader of a white supremacist group in Mississippi published interviews that he conducted with the mayor of Jena and the white teenager who was attacked and beaten, allegedly by the six black youths. In those interviews, the mayor, Murphy McMillin, praised efforts by pro-white groups to organize counterdemonstrations; the teenager, Justin Barker, urged white readers to "realize what is going on, speak up and speak their mind."

....
McMillin has insisted that his town is being unfairly portrayed as racist -- an assertion the mayor repeated in an interview with Richard Barrett, the leader of the Nationalist Movement, a white-supremacist group based in Learned, Miss., who asked McMillan to "set aside some place for those opposing the colored folks."

"I am not endorsing any demonstrations, but I do appreciate what you are trying to do," Barrett quoted McMillin as saying. "Your moral support means a lot." McMillin did not return calls seeking comment Monday.

::sigh::

 

[Lindsey-Loo]

My two cents worth is that no matter what kind of ill-taste the white students displayed, it is still unlawful for the black students to beat them up. I could call a black student the n-word and say all kinds of racially degrading things to them, but does that give them the right to beat within an inch of my life? NO!

Not that I would ever do something like that, and it was very poor taste on the white students' part. But saying that the students who are on trial should be released is completely ridiculous. This has nothing to do with racism. If it had been white students beating a black student or chinese students beating a native american student, i would say the exact same thing.

From the article:

“What we need is federal intervention to protect people from Southern injustice,” Sharpton told the AP. “Our fathers in the 1960’s had to penetrate the Kennedy and Johnson administrations. We have to do the same thing.”

Excuse me? Southern injustice? There is no more racism in the south than there is anywhere else. Good grief! That statement is just really nagging at me for some reason, so I had to throw it in here.

 

[Grappleberry Punch]

I could call a black student the n-word and say all kinds of racially degrading things to them, but does that give them the right to beat within an inch of my life? NO!

Again, the only lasting injury/pain he had was a black eye. He was in the hospital for a few hours, drove himself home, went out later that evening.

Excuse me? Southern injustice? There is no more racism in the south than there is anywhere else.

Yea, IIRC, Sharpton is from NYC. The truth is, Southerners aren't more racist than Northerners--they're just more open about it. And honestly, it's better that way.

 

[Lindsey-Loo]

Again, the only lasting injury/pain he had was a black eye. He was in the hospital for a few hours, drove himself home, went out later that evening.

But he was still attacked and beaten, which is still against the law.

Yea, IIRC, Sharpton is from NYC. The truth is, Southerners aren't more racist than Northerners--they're just more open about it. And honestly, it's better that way.

I honestly can't think of a single person I've ever met here, in person, that's racist at all. They're obviously out there. But I would daresay that the majority of Southerners, Northerners, and Americans in general aren't racist.