Well, well, well...FBI raid Jeffrey Clark's home, take his electronics.

[Subduction Zone]

Twilight doesn't need to be a Christian in order to value personal liberty, freedom and true justice not the just for us version that Democrats favor.

It is impossible to value "true justice"' and support Trump.

 

[Twilight Hue]

We rational thinkers don't care about your feelings and poorly informed, biased opinions. You only seem interested in disrupting these discussions, which you don't. But at least we know this whole thing about exposing Trump/Republican corruption is getting to you. And it's mostly Republicans testifying. It's amazing. There are ethical Republicans, and the far right doesn't respect them.

It's strange that all I get from clearly level headed people like you ahem, 'rational thinkers' (nice bragging btw) is nothing but a relentless barrage of ad honimin attacks, which shows that you already lost the arguments well in hand.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Twilight doesn't need to be a Christian in order to value personal liberty, freedom and true justice not the just for us version that Democrats favor.

I don't have to be a Buddhist either to value those important things. ;0]

Freedom , personal liberty , and true justice is something that remains equally shared , and equally protected from those who have no respect for the preservation of those priceless values.

I do my best to keep those lights burning.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I have a question that might be fun for you to try to answer:

How do your mostly baseless responses that adulate right-wing theocracy comport with your stated religion of "philosophical Buddhism?"

I mean, at the very least, you have to suppose that the word "philosophical" must imply "love of knowledge," for which you show no evidence whatever.

Only for you it's baseless. Hence your ad honimin attacks have been consistent now on a fairly regular basis.

I'm sure most will find my statements and opinions well substantiated without the need for me to always provide sources that people like you will typically brush off anyways.

Most folks are intelligent enough to verify my statements on their own save for some few who are arguably lacking such qualities, speculating mind you in regards to said missing qualities, have nothing much better to do than just attack the person rather than the subject because they have nothing else to contribute to the arguments.

Additionally Buddhism deals with directness and is not conducent on stereotypes that Buddhists must somehow be fluffy , soft, and squishy when it come to matters that from time to time, require a fair amount of 'bushido' which is inclusive of the dharma and not exclusive of it. That's the form I practice. ;0]

 

[Twilight Hue]

Shouldn't the FBI be busy investigating evil garage door openers?

It does reek of mechanics and gears. Definitely worth the FBIs time.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Liberals have no place even bringing up McCarthy when they spent 4 years talking about Russian Collusion.

That's right comrade!

Don't forget about vat invisible laptop either!

 

[Twilight Hue]

He did not drain the swamp. In fact he did worse. He hired as much of the swamp as possible.

That's just Amos Moses.

 

[Subduction Zone]

That's just Amos Moses.

Far more that that.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Yes, here in Missouri there is a new ad by our former governor who resigned in disgrace, and is now running for Senate.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/06/23/greitens-hunting-ad-gop-opposition-senate/

Greiten's ad is of him hunting RINOs, which is presumably those ethical Republicans who would not conspire with Trump and are now testifying to the conspiracy to overturn the election. This illustrates how far Republicans are going to divide themselves, not just Democrats.

I've seen it --- and it's vile.

And sadly illustrative.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Twilight doesn't need to be a Christian in order to value personal liberty, freedom and true justice not the just for us version that Democrats favor.

Unless you can provide even a wee hint of evidence for that claim, I see no particular reason to pay attention to it.

It's easy to slag people you hate, isn't it? You just mention the name, and attach any old words you like. No need at all for those words to have even a grain of truth.

For example, Rusty Bowers, the Arizona House Speaker, testified about the abuse he and his family endured after he resisted the Trump campaign’s efforts to get him to work to overturn Joe Biden’s victory in the state. After Bowers, a Republican, stood up to Trump’s pressure, his home and neighborhood became the site of loud and threatening protests for days. One of them took to a loudspeaker to call Bowers a “pedophile.”

See? That's your beloved Republicans, saying that wretched filth while his daughter was dying in the next room. Easy-peasy.

So show evidence or shove it.

 

[F1fan]

I don't have to be a Buddhist either to value those important things. ;0]

Freedom , personal liberty , and true justice is something that remains equally shared , and equally protected from those who have no respect for the preservation of those priceless values.

Yet you have not written a single word where you value these priceless values where it comes to what Trump and his political allies have done. Do you accept that the FBI had a legal basis to use a valid warrant to enter Clark's home and get electronic devices that might have evidence of felonies, including a conspiracy with the former president to overturn a valid election? If you don't, then you don't value true justice. You don't value the people's right and freedom to cast votes and them be counted. We lose liberty to choose our leadership.

You can't just claim to value freedom and justice and then write posts that show contempt for those working for them WHEN they are Democrats and ethical Republicans. You can't have it both ways. You can't have MAGA freedom and justice when MAGA is showing itself to be a corrupt system of thought.

Many ethical Republicans are testifying and they are being criticized and threatened by the MAGAs. Some are losing their re-elections, some are not. This points to a conservative base that is split, but also that is confused about ethics versus power.

I do my best to keep those lights burning.

And what do these lights stand for, in reality? Uncompromised honor and character? Or does your light have a highly biased filter that makes it unrecognizable by truly ethical people with character?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Yet you have not written a single word where you value these priceless values where it comes to what Trump and his political allies have done. Do you accept that the FBI had a legal basis to use a valid warrant to enter Clark's home and get electronic devices that might have evidence of felonies, including a conspiracy with the former president to overturn a valid election? If you don't, then you don't value true justice. You don't value the people's right and freedom to cast votes and them be counted. We lose liberty to choose our leadership.

You can't just claim to value freedom and justice and then write posts that show contempt for those working for them WHEN they are Democrats and ethical Republicans. You can't have it both ways. You can't have MAGA freedom and justice when MAGA is showing itself to be a corrupt system of thought.

Many ethical Republicans are testifying and they are being criticized and threatened by the MAGAs. Some are losing their re-elections, some are not. This points to a conservative base that is split, but also that is confused about ethics versus power.


And what do these lights stand for, in reality? Uncompromised honor and character? Or does your light have a highly biased filter that makes it unrecognizable by truly ethical people with character?

If any of that is true and strong enough to verify and confirm the accusations that justify such a raid, then I fully expect to see eventually, a full conviction and sentencing along with vindiction that I'm wrong on those fronts.

All I see so far is a form of revenge politics using federal agencies as a weapon more than actual justice.

But like all things ongoing, it's a wait and see matter yet again since the raids are already said and done with making it irrelevant as to weither I believe it to be justified or not.

My short answer is no, it was not justified only because it was not clearly explained to the public in the detail it requires from a government that desperately needs to be "transparent" on such matters which is imo an aspect of a government that values freedom.

 

[F1fan]

If any of that is true and strong enough to verify and confirm the accusations that justify such a raid, then I fully expect to see eventually, a full conviction and sentencing along with vindiction that I'm wrong on those fronts.

All I see so far is a form of revenge politics using federal agencies as a weapon more than actual justice.

This is a biased assessment since we all have the opportunity to hear the actual testimonies of Republicans, including lawyers in the White House with Trump. Do you really think what they are saying through their legal expertise is revenge, and not an investigation of a serious set of crimes by Trump and his co-conspirators. If you are being honest about this matter you should inform yourself with reputable news, watch the testimonies, and wait until the presentation of evidence has been made to the people of the USA.

But like all things ongoing, it's a wait and see matter yet again since the raids are already said and done with making it irrelevant as to weither I believe it to be justified or not.

The raids themselves suggest there is evidence of crimes that is known to the FBI. We don't have full access to all the evidence, but what has been revealed so far by witnesses it is very damning for those involved in the various crimes. The conspiracy by the Trump campaign to set up fake electors in seven swing states is very serious. Some of the people involved have been indicted for fraud.

My short answer is no, it was not justified only because it was not clearly explained to the public in the detail it requires from a government that desperately needs to be "transparent" on such matters.

So your NO answer is only because you didn't see the warrant and the evidence the warrant was based on, and that you don't trust the judge that signed the warrant, you don't trust the FBI, and you don't trust the justice system that is doing this work.

So why don't you trust the justice system? Do you have direct evidence that suggests the judge, the FBI, and those involved in investigating Clark are corrupt? If you don't, then what is your basis for saying this legal procedure is NOT justified? Are you an expert in law that gives you a special reason to suspect corruption in this process?

Could it be that you are simply cynical because of your far right political attitudes? If so, what value is your short answer, because bias is ruling your judgment, not objectivity?

 

[Twilight Hue]

This is a biased assessment since we all have the opportunity to hear the actual testimonies of Republicans, including lawyers in the White House with Trump. Do you really think what they are saying through their legal expertise is revenge, and not an investigation of a serious set of crimes by Trump and his co-conspirators. If you are being honest about this matter you should inform yourself with reputable news, watch the testimonies, and wait until the presentation of evidence has been made to the people of the USA.


The raids themselves suggest there is evidence of crimes that is known to the FBI. We don't have full access to all the evidence, but what has been revealed so far by witnesses it is very damning for those involved in the various crimes. The conspiracy by the Trump campaign to set up fake electors in seven swing states is very serious. Some of the people involved have been indicted for fraud.


So your NO answer is only because you didn't see the warrant and the evidence the warrant was based on, and that you don't trust the judge that signed the warrant, you don't trust the FBI, and you don't trust the justice system that is doing this work.

So why don't you trust the justice system? Do you have direct evidence that suggests the judge, the FBI, and those involved in investigating Clark are corrupt? If you don't, then what is your basis for saying this legal procedure is NOT justified? Are you an expert in law that gives you a special reason to suspect corruption in this process?

Could it be that you are simply cynical because of your far right political attitudes? If so, what value is your short answer, because bias is ruling your judgment, not objectivity?

Like I said in my former post, all it takes is a conviction and sentencing resulting in the vindiction that I'm wrong.

Are you convinced, with such allegedly strong evidences and testimonies that are being presented, that this will actually be the case this time?

But your right on one thing, I don't trust a justice system that is being used as now as a political weapon, rather than its intended purpose, which is to provide a fair and equitable process for those accused.

 

[Ponder This]

Clark was the guy who wanted to be appointed Acting AG after Barr, promising to help Trump overturn the election.

This seems like a bit of a Hail Mary to find something incriminating.
Federal Authorities Search Home of Jeffery Clark

It remained unclear exactly what the investigators may have been looking for.

As you know, homes can't be raided without probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Moreover, the timing of the raid makes the raid appear political because

The law enforcement action at Mr. Clark’s home in suburban Virginia came just one day before the House committee investigating the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol held a hearing setting out in vivid and powerful detail Mr. Trump’s efforts to pressure the Justice Department to help him reverse his election defeat.

If you didn't already know, the Jan 6 committee is partisan - Republican selections to the committee were denied by Nancy Pelosi causing the Republicans to withdraw, the two Republicans on the committee were selected by Nancy Pelosi, and the Republican party censured those two Republicans for accepting Democrat party selection to the committee in defiance of the Republican party.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Like I said in my former post, all it takes is a conviction and sentencing resulting in the vindiction that I'm wrong.

Are you convinced, with such allegedly strong evidences and testimonies that are being presented, that this will actually be the case this time?

But your right on one thing, I don't trust a justice system that is being used as now as a political weapon, rather than its intended purpose, which is to provide a fair and equitable process for those accused.

And your evidence that this raid is not justified, which is the only thing that would render it unfair and inequitable?

 

[F1fan]

Like I said in my former post, all it takes is a conviction and sentencing resulting in the vindiction that I'm wrong.

Why are you assuming you're correct given all the evidence we have seen thus far? Just cynicism? Bias?

We can all see Trump is corrupt. There is a mix of Republicans who are ethical, and corrupt, and they are testifying if ethical, and pleading the 5th if corrupt, as the testimonies reveal.

Are you convinced, with such allegedly strong evidences and testimonies that are being presented, that this will actually be the case this time?

We have good reason to conclude there was a conspiracy against the USA. It is more likely than not, at this point. The testimonies have been credible and convincing. The Republicans who have testified describe being pressured to do illegal and unethical acts by Trump or others in the administration. This is showing intent to overturn the election, and a broad conspiracy by people who know they might have committed crimes, thus them seeking pardons from Trump before he left office. No one seeks pardons unless they fear themselves guilty of a crime, and specific crimes.

But your right on one thing, I don't trust a justice system that is being used as now as a political weapon, rather than its intended purpose, which is to provide a fair and equitable process for those accused.

But it's not being used as a weapon in any way. Biden is not pressuring Garland to do anything. The DOJ has actually resisted investigating the former president. Notice that the DOJ has requested the testimonies and other evidence gathered by the Jan 6 congressional committee. These are depositions, legal documents, and other forms of evidence. The committee can investigate, but not prosecute. But once the DOJ becomes aware of evidence that crimes have been committed it has an obligation to consider charges if the evidence is compelling. As you admitted, if there is evidence and there are convictions then you will be convinced. So I suggest you withhold your judgment.

Garland has been criticized by many Democrats for not doing more, so your suggestion it is a political weapon is highly inaccurate. Compare the DOJ today to the pressure Trump put on Barr to find illegalities in the election. He looked into the many claims of fraud in the election and found no evidence of signifiant fraud. Barr resigned under this pressure. Clark was considered as a replacement because he was willing to do what Trump wanted the DOJ to do, that was to assume rampant fraud. This turned out not happening because the WH lawyers said there would be mass resignations in the DOJ as a result, so Trump knew this would look bad. Clark would have broken the law on day 1 if he had been named AG for the USA.

Garland, by contrast, is acting independently and ethically. He is focused on his duty to justice and to the USA.

 

[F1fan]

This seems like a bit of a Hail Mary to find something incriminating.
Federal Authorities Search Home of Jeffery Clark

​

Clark plead the 5th over 100 times in a deposition. He asked for a pardon from Trump before he left office. The FBI can't get a search warrant without existing evidence of a crime. All these circumstances suggest Clark has legal jeopardy and the warrant was justified.

As you know, homes can't be raided without probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Moreover, the timing of the raid makes the raid appear political because

Not political, but practical. The testimony on Thursday was to implicate Clark, and investigators feared Clark would be motivated to destroy evidence if the FBI did not act that morning. Destroying evidence is a crime itself. This is a person who is implicated in crimes, and complicit with a conspiracy.

​

If you didn't already know, the Jan 6 committee is partisan - Republican selections to the committee were denied by Nancy Pelosi causing the Republicans to withdraw, the two Republicans on the committee were selected by Nancy Pelosi, and the Republican party censured those two Republicans for accepting Democrat party selection to the committee in defiance of the Republican party.

The two Republicans on the committee demonstrate they are ethical and pursuing the truth. The other Republicans that McCarthy wanted on the panel have a history of disruption and extreme political bias. McCarthy actually pulled his members, and he surely regrets this now. The Jan 6 committee has been extremely well organ iced and functional, just like the Watergate hearings back in the 70s. This professional and objective approach he been a great service to the American people and for justice. This is how our government should function, objectively and professionally.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Not political, but practical. The testimony on Thursday was to implicate Clark, and investigators feared Clark would be motivated to destroy evidence if the FBI did not act that morning. Destroying evidence is a crime itself. This is a person who is implicated in crimes, and complicit with a conspiracy.

What exactly is that evidence that they want to preserve that warrants such drastic measures?

It sounds like it's confirmed the evidence in question exists without any doubt. Is it that certain, or it it just another case of speculation?

 

[F1fan]

What exactly is that evidence that they want to preserve that warrants such drastic measures?

Given its electronic devices and paperwork the evidence is likely text messages, emails, and plans of some sort. Typical in these investigations.

It sounds like it's confirmed the evidence in question exists without any doubt. Is it that certain, or it it just another case of speculation?

We don’t know. If the FBI finds incriminating evidence it will be known to the public record eventually. Sometimes the evidence implicates other parties and the evidence is sealed until those people are investigated as well. This is a conspiracy crime so that means multiple individuals involved.