What about music in worship?

[David1967]

This is a matter of worship, thus making this very important. The early church did not use music, many of the protestant leaders condemned the use of instruments in worship... it actually was first introduced nearly 600 years after the church was established. This is a real issue, but let me ask you something, If Noah would not have used the type of wood that he was commanded, do you think God would have allowed him to be saved?

No offense intended (I actually enjoy this type of discussion), but that really isn't a good comparison. Noah was specifically told what wood to use on the ark. God never said not to use instruments in worship. Very big difference.

 

[Dantedeven]

I'm sorry, I should have clarified... I am referring to instrumental music in worship.

Well i would say that the chanting of Holy texts should be sufficient, but that instrumental music can be used as a guidance as to what notes to hit.
Furthermore, music is creation, the Lord created us in His image, we were made to create.
Also, music in worship unites people, reminds us of the Lord and praises, it is positive.
Good, like the Lord.

 

[David1967]

After Jesus's death, the church was established, thus causing the Sabbath to be no more as it was a part of the old law. We see instances of the apostles gathering on the first day of the week to worship. 1 Corinthians 16:1-2 Acts 20:7 The act of "breaking bread", or the Lord's Supper, or communion, is an act of worship, as is the act of giving as mentioned in 1 Corinthians. These acts of worship took place on the first day of the week. It was also common for the church to meet multiple times during the week, perhaps every day. I do see great benefit in that as well.

You have a much better argument for this position than you do for the no instruments in worship thing.

 

[David1967]

Not a denomination, we usually do not prefer to capitalize the c in church as well, stating that the name has meaning. It is not Church of Christ as a denomination would state, but rather church of Christ, meaning church that belongs to Christ. Jesus said that he would build his church Matthew 16:18 and Ephesians 4:4 says that their is one body. Ephesians 5:23 says that Jesus has established his church, thus making him the author and designer of his church. He is also the head of the body. A head can only support one body, as a man is to only take one wife. This is why we are not a denomination, because Jesus created and is the head of the church, not a man.

I'm very aware of Church of Christ teaching regarding this. However this is not unique to your group. Many denominations under the banner of Christianity believe that they are the true church and therefore not a denomination. I grew up in one of those myself. I had a very interesting, although traumatic upbringing regarding religion.

 

[Dantedeven]

And surely, the wise tongue will only speak words of healing and those words will sound like beautiful music to the ears.
While the serpent's tongue can only bring forth one word: warning of inevitable demise.
Both will echo forth within the mind, lingering there within as the body adapts to whatever the message may be.
For we are what we think, which is a response to whatever phenomenon we can sense.
Yet our thoughts will always influence everything we do and that what we do is our Karma.
And it is this Karma that the Lord judges on the day of neverending night.
So know that which is good and evil, like we desired once and recognise the serpents tongue.
And rejoice always in the Lord, for He will guide everyone that does towards that which is good.
Because the Lord is good and those that praise Him are good.
Our Lord shall protect those that unify to sing in choir; Hallelujah.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Their are no occurrences of this in the New Testament.

Do you go to church?

Considering we are no to add or delete from the word Revelation 22:18-20, I assume not... thoughts?

That is essentially an ancient version of the FBI copyright warning. It can't be taken too seriously, because then every book after Genesis would have to be evil in the sight of the Lord.

Many other examples show that God is serious about his commands, so what makes the manner in which we worship him any different.

That's why He killed Jesus for breaking the Sabbath, right? No? He didn't?

We don't have permission to use instruments, as we don't have permission to use cheeseburgers and coke on the communion... You get what I'm saying?

Communion is adding stuff to the Passover. You seem fine with THAT.

It's not that he banned music, but the use of instrumental music during worship. God has set a plan for his children on how he commands them to worship him.

I was under the impression the Temple had music.

God has set a plan for his children on how he commands them to worship him.

And both Samuel and Jesus agree that holidays and rituals and stuff are for OUR benefit, because God doesn't need any of it.

how about .....Let It Burn...
by Avatar

They need to sing Let It Go at Cohen's church. He needs to lighten up.

I am referring to instrumental music in worship.

Poor David ... that was the REAL reason Saul hated him. That stupid harp was getting on his NERVES.

The early church did not use music

What is a Psalm?

many of the protestant leaders condemned the use of instruments in worship

Protestants can in no way ever claim to be part of the early church.

If Noah would not have used the type of wood that he was commanded, do you think God would have allowed him to be saved?

Noah felt so awesome afterward he went on a drunken naked bender. That's not someone who enjoyed his experience.

We are under the New Law, thus we see a new pattern of worship.

Churches weren't originally part of the Way either. People just hid out in other people's houses for secret services, not with billboards and massive parking lots, etc. If you go to church, you are breaking the "rules".

After Jesus's death, the church was established, thus causing the Sabbath to be no more as it was a part of the old law. We see instances of the apostles gathering on the first day of the week to worship. 1 Corinthians 16:1-2 Acts 20:7 The act of "breaking bread", or the Lord's Supper, or communion, is an act of worship, as is the act of giving as mentioned in 1 Corinthians. These acts of worship took place on the first day of the week. It was also common for the church to meet multiple times during the week, perhaps every day. I do see great benefit in that as well.

Have you noticed you mostly quote Paul?

Ephesians 5:23 says that Jesus has established his church, thus making him the author and designer of his church.

That author wasn't there.

He is also the head of the body. A head can only support one body, as a man is to only take one wife.

There are conjoined twins. I mean, if we're using analogies, at least try to pick one where it can't easily be nitpicked.

 

[Thief]

What is a Psalm?

I think you know........it means.... song

can't imagine the script being sung
but maybe in it's original language the rhythm is different

 

[Jedster]

To assume that since God didn't mention it, it must be wrong is quite a stretch ,don't ya think? That is opening the door to lots of potential phobias.

yes, like we shouldn't be using computers!!

 

[metis]

We are never directly commanded not to worship the devil, does that mean it is okay? Obviously not. As I have said, sometimes, often most of the times when God is silent, it is just as important as when he speaks.

We have been told throughout the Bible not to worship anyone or anything but God.

 

[metis]

Not a denomination, we usually do not prefer to capitalize the c in church as well, stating that the name has meaning. It is not Church of Christ as a denomination would state, but rather church of Christ, meaning church that belongs to Christ. Jesus said that he would build his church Matthew 16:18 and Ephesians 4:4 says that their is one body. Ephesians 5:23 says that Jesus has established his church, thus making him the author and designer of his church. He is also the head of the body. A head can only support one body, as a man is to only take one wife. This is why we are not a denomination, because Jesus created and is the head of the church, not a man.

As mentioned numerous times by Paul, there is only "one body", and that "one body" was organized by Jesus and the apostles and passed down as "one body" that would have to be organized under one "umbrella". Thus, various denominations cannot be viewed as being the intent of what they had created and passed down through the ages.

 

[metis]

After Jesus's death, the church was established, thus causing the Sabbath to be no more as it was a part of the old law. We see instances of the apostles gathering on the first day of the week to worship. 1 Corinthians 16:1-2 Acts 20:7 The act of "breaking bread", or the Lord's Supper, or communion, is an act of worship, as is the act of giving as mentioned in 1 Corinthians. These acts of worship took place on the first day of the week. It was also common for the church to meet multiple times during the week, perhaps every day. I do see great benefit in that as well.

That particular movement to worshiping on "the Lord's Day" (Sunday) did not occur until around the beginning of the 2nd century of the Church, and it probably was not universal even then at first since the diasporah made any centralized organizing quite difficult. The "agape meal" was done on Sunday but the Eucharist doesn't appear to have been included in that day but on Shabbat.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Yes their were instances of instruments used in worship during the old law. The only problem is, we are to worship God in another manner when it comes to today. We are under the New Law, thus we see a new pattern of worship. The New Testament speaks specifically about singing, but never mentions the use of instruments. This is for a reason.

I can give you a parallel argument from silence. Nine of the Decalogue are mentioned in the NT, sometimes more than once, but never Shabbat. This, however, does not preclude Sabbath observance:

1. The early church met for Shabbat dinner, collected money then on Saturday night, met and worshipped
2. Romans 14 specifically says we can honor one day above another or no

Avoiding instruments can help further the gospel since we are to "speak to one another in psalms, hymns and spiritual songs." But there is nothing wrong with a drum to keep time or a guitar so people who are unskilled can sing on key.

But are there no instruments used in the NT? I see trumpets/shofars in use!

 

[David1967]

Be careful playing the role of God and saying what he will and wont do

Isn't that exactly what you are doing by 'assuming' that since God didn't mention musical instruments He must be against them? And to be clear I would never play the role of God in anything. My position is simply the need for clear scriptural evidence before taking such a position on something.

 

[David1967]

That particular movement to worshiping on "the Lord's Day" (Sunday) did not occur until around the beginning of the 2nd century of the Church, and it probably was not universal even then at first since the diasporah made any centralized organizing quite difficult. The "agape meal" was done on Sunday but the Eucharist doesn't appear to have been included in that day but on Shabbat.

Thanks for the history lesson Metis.

 

[David1967]

We are never directly commanded not to worship the devil, does that mean it is okay?

Not a very good comparison.

 

[David1967]

yes, like we shouldn't be using computers!!

Exactly!!

 

[David1967]

That is essentially an ancient version of the FBI copyright warning.

Gee, those guys have been around a looong time.

Have you noticed you mostly quote Paul?

Excellent point! Ever notice how nearly all denominational differences and contentions come from the letters of Paul and not Jesus? One example that really stands out is regarding modern manifestations of spiritual gifts such as tongues. (sorry. not trying to derail the thread )

 

[Muffled]

I have seen evidence of their being music in worship in the law of Moses, but what about today? Their are no occurrences of this in the New Testament. Considering we live under the New Law, are we authorized to use instruments in worship? Considering we are no to add or delete from the word Revelation 22:18-20, I assume not... thoughts?

I believe since there is nothing in the NT to nullify the OT I believe the OT stands as correct.

I believe the Rev verse does not apply.

 

[Muffled]

Certainly not forbidden. Easy solution to this. If you like mmusic in worship then do it. If you don't then don't. I seriously doubt the creator of the universe gets hung up on such silliness.

I am not sure how God feels about people wanting to limit worship based on their own ideas.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

There are lots of things never mentioned in the Bible that we do every day and have always done.
Music has always been common place, and is mentioned in the old testament as acceptable to God. That it was not banned in the new testament indicates to me, that it was not mentioned because it was not an prohibited issue.